Ask HN: How do you explain what you do to your relatives?

51 points by davo11 ↗ HN
I'm guessing others have this experience, the uncle who's the hardware salesman who thinks your sitting at home for the last 12 months and is loud about it, the relative who just nods and looks a bit sad when you tell them what you're doing. All folk who know nothing about startups, IT and what the process is, and with christmas coming I'm dreading it.

Has anyone hit on a magic formula to explain what you're doing in your startup so they'll leave you alone and stop suggesting maybe you can get a job in uncle bob's shop? / you did so well at school / and so on.

127 comments

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I usually just avoid the subject - my dad is the only one who understands what I'm doing and why, so I'll talk to him about it but usually noone else.

Bu don't worry I'm sure Einstein had some pretty tough times explaining to his family what he did :-)

You're probably right. You'd think with all the marketing brains and intellect here someone would have come up with an incantation.
I tell people I watch jerry springer and wait for the mail for the part of the day I am not asleep.
I usually just roll with "Im a computer programmer". That seems to work.
Exactly. I always just say "I work in web development". That about sums it up.
"Oh, you make webpages!"
Cool. You must know HTML then.
I'm saddened by how real this thread got to me.
Yeah, my cousin taught me HTML too, it's not that hard.
I do cross-platform development -- I use frontpage AND dreamweaver.
And you listen to both kinds of music, country AND western?
(country and western are like metal and hardcore.. might sound the same, but have different roots and cultures, and have experienced a great cross-pollination.)
The joke is on the word "both", not on the "country and western". Pour one out for Jake and Elwood.
I thought the joke was on the word "music"..
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Then I say "Also CSS, Javascript, C#, VB, ASP.Net, Classic asp, SQL, Java, C, Objective-C, and Flash."
Recently I've tried not to say any variant of programming or development or engineering on anything (web, mobile, desktop), nor that I've majored in computer science from the moment I started college. What inevitably happens if I do say so is family and friends of family end up asking me to work on their website|fix their computers|help them with something barely tech-related like their car's satellite radio, and usually for too little money. I never understood why, since I never ask for favors from them, but shrug.

I'd be glad to help some of them out when I have the time and interest, but there is no way in hell I want to churn out a full out custom inventory system for their business for $200. And yes, someone has actually asked me for that at that price before. My jaw just dropped.

The crux of your reason is half of why "I reboot servers." The other half is because I really don't expect to have an interesting conversation about it and don't want to explain it to people.

Maybe my family and in-laws aren't cool enough to ask for a web application, but my current description has been geeky enough to fend everyone off. I guess the time is coming when I should be concerned about that and move on to something niche-sounding.

> I never understood why, since I never ask for favors from them, but shrug.

This happens to practically everyone - Doesn't matter if you're a Doctor, Laywer, Mechanic, Banker...

Oh I'm fully aware people do do this all the time and it happens to pretty much anyone with any kind of job. I'm wondering why people believe their relatives would be willing to do a favor in the first place purely based on relation and even sometimes with the assumption they wouldn't mind doing it at a discounted rate because of that. I'm sure anyone who's spent enough time with family talking about what they do have encountered that before.
My Mom's computer was acting up recently. She called me thinking I'd help her. I told her how rude it was to just call me up expecting instant support. Then I sent her my rate card, a simple NDA, and a standard short-term contract. Really man, I'm with you, some people have such nerve!
aww I'm not that mean ;) my parents are entitled to all the free support they want from me, and the same goes to close friends. however, a third cousin twice removed that I didn't even know existed until recently shouldn't expect the same :p
You're missing out on some quality WTF moments though if you refuse tech support to family. I once spent 45 minutes on the phone with my sister trying to fix her internet. She finally wondered aloud, "Does it matter if the phone plug doesn't fit perfectly?" "You mean the ethernet cable?" "That's not the same thing a phone wire?" "There's you're problem."
Can you imagine asking for help from someone invited over for dinner who's occupation turned out to be plumbing?

"Oh, you're a plumber? Say, just the other day I dumped this leviathan that almost shattered my shitter, and clogged it good, too. Nobody's dared use it since. Would you mind grabbing that bull by the horns after dessert?"

I have however said - "hey - we're doing an extension - want to come round, drink some beers and give us a hand"

NOTE: If you're asking for help, always offer beer

I can't even use that excuse as I've got this Psychology/Pre-med background. I decided not to go the med school route right before taking the MCATs, so for me, it's usally, "So what medical school are you going to?"

I try to explain that I'm doing something I am much more passionate about but most people (other than my parents, thankfully) can't seem to understand that logic. Living in a "brown" community doesn't help either, where every other parent is a doctor.

> Living in a "brown" community doesn't help either, where every other parent is a doctor.

Am I the only one that read this 3 times trying to understand its meaning?

No, I'm with you. But that guy really is screwed @ the family table!

Dumping med school? Man, that's like me quitting teaching college. People thought (still think, probably) that I'm nuts. Occasionally I think they may be right...

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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.

-- Albert Einstein

A. Einstein must have had an unusually insightful grandmother, or else his ability to explain relativity theory must have been unsurpassed.

And erwin Schrodinger's grandmother must really have been something. It took me two wellwritten books just to get a general grasp of what he was doing.

Einstein must have had an unusually insightful grandmother

It's probably a nicely self-regulating system then.

I think if you asked Einstein, he would probably have told you that he didn't really understand relativity.
Well lucky for us all he wasn't publishing in his grandmother's journal. If having powerful expressive models isn't "understanding" then maybe it's best we leave this concept to message boards.
Which books, if you don't mind?
Schrodingers cat by John Gribben. Check his other books as well if you want good explanations of physics
Two techniques I've used in the past:

1) Figure out the "regular" job that is most directly related to what your startup does and say you do that. For example, I have largely been involved with ad supported startups, so most of my relatives think I work at an ad agency.

2) If you have big clients, partners or vendors that you think your relatives have heard of you can say something like, "I work with company X". The fact that you have some relationship with a company they have heard of is typically good enough for them to think you are doing something right.

That being said, your non-technical family members are also a great audience on which to practice refining your pitch. If you can figure out how to explain what your startup does to your family, then you can surely explain it to users, clients, investors, etc.

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Better than trying to explain what you're doing with a PhD.
fill it with commonly understandable phrases: i work in a new "small business" as a "computer programmer" who does some "other stuff" too
What's so hard? You're a business owner and an entrepeneur. I always thought people admired that, especially here in America.
I'm not in America - I'm in Australia, There are entrepenuers here but it's not an accepted way of life like it seems to be in the US. If you have a shop front / product it seems acceptable, but people seem to have a hard time accepting that you sit at home writing software is work - and hard work, and that you can make money from it.

It actually scares a lot of people it seems, maybe it's just my family.

It's not just your family. In much of the world, people (most especially your parents) will equate entrepreneurship with not having a job, scamming, all sorts of negative associations. But it's your family, so they will be somewhat forgiving. Show them what you're doing, point to the people in the world who have done well (de-emphasize the billionaires, and emphasize the people who created jobs for themselves). Be passionate. Like everything you do, you have to sell it to them.
When you say "much of the world," which regions are you familiar with that have this stigma? I'm curious.
I'd say anywhere where there aren't a _lot_ of successful startups compared to the number of "conventional" businesses, and a good startup community. Northern California, Massachusetts, and where I am now (Ottawa, Ca) are about the only places I can think of that don't have that stigma. But I haven't been everywhere in the world.
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Now that you say that, until recently I resisted calling myself an entrepeneur, it does have a lot of negative connotations. I'm past that and now I probably should try and drag some of them along with the dream, they'll be kicking and screaming - at first anyway - but it's a whole lot better than grinding my teeth.
I too have noticed that being passionate about what you're doing, and getting that message across positively, really helps turn skeptical attitudes around.
I think the word "entrepreneur" has so many negative connotations because it's overused (at least in the States). Jobs are called entrepreneurial, employers are looking for entrepreneurs and MLMs like Cutco & Mary Kay consider their sales people entrepreneurs. It's sad.

I really like & use the titles cofounder or founder.

I just say "I run a small web design business," although it lacks the edge now that I'm employed as well :^)

I do think that it sounds a little off-base to call oneself an entrepeneur at least in the DC area...very self-important.

I used to live in DC. Entrepreneurs were few & far between; paper shufflers abound.
My father who was entrepreneur himself used to say: "Never start a company. If you really want money then go to work for the goverment".

Because high level of bureaucracy here in Russia it's really hard to start a company in a real sector. And it's hard to find a VC for tech startup. It's depressing. I even thought about moving to some other country on Phd postition and part time working for start up... but it's seems too extreme =(

If you are young, I suggest you give it some more thought. There's a big world out there, even bigger than Russia, believe it or not.
I'm not really suggesting this, but as soon as i got office space people's opinions of my work increased 10 fold. Even saying I was making money didn't phase people.

Of course, when i started working at home again, they were still asking me "how's your office doing?" As if, that is where I kept all my work, in folders, at an office, with desks.

Of course you could just say, we just opened an office downtown, and people will get excited for you.

Not anymore. At least in my experience, people think you are either a naive dreamer or a burnout that can't get a real job, especially if you work with computers/internet. I just tell relatives and new people I meet that I don't know what I want to do after school.
We live in an unbelievably conservative time right now.
Teenagers even stopped to rebel.
Not all of us. Well, I'm 20, but it still counts.
Yes, but "I am going to start a company and make loads of money." differs from sixties style rebellion.
For me, older relatives are way more impressed if you get a full time job at a established/well known company (Google, Cisco, etc...) than if you're a business owner.

I was employed at a small company (under 10 employees) and my Aunt wouldn't stop calling me about Cisco.

"Cisco is a really great place to work at... it's stable, good pay. Even though your Uncle just got laid off, I still think it's a great place."

I'm a recent graduate, just moved back to my hometown in Silicon Valley. All of my old buddies are so eager to land jobs at BigCo. I'm completely shocked that no one wants to work at a startup, do their own business, or even work for a small company.

Since when did "I work at Google" become a damn pick up line?

I think being an entrepreneur is only impressive after you're successful (ie. get RICH). I'm pretty sure the Reddit guys had a hard time impressing their family/friends with their startup, until they got filthy rich.

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I tried it. Never works. ;)

I think family wants to see you secure. I think future spouses want to see a willingness to take on risk. So tailor those pick up lines to the audience.

(Wonder if startups got less sexy with the economy going down...)

+1 on point about family wanting to see you secure. I don't usually like quoting Paul Graham, but he really did write the best essay I've read on the subject of "Inequality and Risk".

With family it's tricky; they're not as really interested in "what you do" as "how will your chosen source of income ensure your happiness?"

I'm from Hong Kong, so the standard reply for family is usually "I do IT"; over there IT doesn't stand for Info-Tech, it is an umbrella term for all things technology related, from using accounting software to engineering boeing 747's. Implication: It's a safe desk job out of the sun and rain, it makes money, and you're fairly smart and able to take care of yourself.

Then during the bust they worry again, and I tell them nono I'm fine, my company builds buildings. The city I live in has been experiencing a massive boom in property value in both residential and commercial sectors, so then they didn't panic about my job. Plus, I'm still out of the sun and rain, so, to them things look pretty good.

So this time with the US housing melt-down, they worry again. So this time the emphasis is on what an awesome guy my boss is, that in the past even when things are slow he doesn't let anyone go, that the company is financially sound with everything paid for in cash, and all he has to pay is wages. So the office is here to stay for sure, keeping me out of the sun and rain.

PS: I work in a rough area of the city, and on my bus commute there are a lot of construction workers, day labourers, unemployed individuals, folks slightly intoxicated or look like they have had a rough night outside. I have the luxuary of telling them I work for a construction company.

yeah Chinese people try to stay indoors as much as we can

Try to think a level above what you're doing.
Just do what I did, play poker for a living for 5 or 6 years first. Then compared to that, a startup is "doing something with your life".
Speaking of poker, I was once playing poker in vegas when the guy sitting beside me asked me what I did. I replied that I was a "technology consultant". He looked confused. I tried to explain that I wrote software to solve problems in the home automation industry. He thought hard for a moment and a light bulb went off in his head and he sat up and said, "oh computers!". I resigned that I did "computers", and the moment was over.

Just goes to show how the whole world isn't technical.

That's slightly horrifying.
The people you meet at mid-limit poker tables are the most genuinely reflective sample of the middle-class and up segment of our country that you'll ever find. It's weighted male (though less heavily than it use to be) but you definitely run into all types.

There's a huge digital divide among poker pros. Most tend to either be younger guys like me who use computers as a tool to improve our game (ICM Calculators, equity calcs, stat tracking, etc.) and the old road-gambler types who still think poker is just about reading people. Of course poker is such a mathematical game that the second group is at a tremendous disadvantage, except for the few who've adapted.

While not pertaining to relatives or holidays, here's my experience as pertains to the social pull of various careers.

Graduate student.

0: "I'm a grad student." 1: (Deadpan/barely impressed.) "Oh. You must be really smart." 0: "Don't worry. I'm not."

Analyst at a pharmaceutical consulting company.

0: "I'm a consultant." 1: "Oh." (Isn't everyone?)

Quantitative trader/developer at a hedge fund.

0: "I'm a trader." 2: "Oh." ++

Unemployed.

0: "I'm a treasure hunter." 1: WTF? OR "I'm asking what you do for a job, not..."

Working for a startup.

0: "I'm starting a tech company." 1: "Oh, cool!" 0: (Excited.) "Yeah, it's fun. I'm using a ridiculously powerful programming language called Lisp. It looks like this." (Points to some monstrosity of a macro such as ONCE-ONLY.) 1: "Uh, yeah..."

++ The use of 2 here is not a typo. Finance is not nearly as "sexy" as I thought it would be before going in, and the standard-error descriptor is, in fact, appropriate.

I thought it is having lots of money that is sexy, not "finance".
I always thought "over-leveraged" was a really sexy term, myself.
Fair, but a talented young person in finance will, at least, have the opportunity to make lots of money in the future. This means that a 23-year-old trader ought to be especially a catch: buy cheap, sell dear.
I actually know a guy that is a treasure hunter. He (and several other guys) had a big find in the Caribbean a while back and now he does it full time all over the world.
Say you're starting a business or have a descriptive one line: 'making a ___ site'.

"Startup," "Entrepreneur" etc. is a loaded term. I think Australia & The States are almost opposites in their reaction to these terms. I'm not born Australian (5th year), & the term doesn't describe me, so maybe I'm not the ideal person to advise here.

But I wouldn't venture further then 'starting a business.' I certainly wouldn't describe myself as an entrepreneur. Australians like to tear the tall trees to shreds. & that'd be like calling yourself a revolutionary poet.

"I write computer programs. No I can't fix your computer"
I tell them I'm starting a business. I explain in fairly vague terms what pain I'm trying to alleviate.

Family and friends usually get it and they are very excited and supportive (of course, some family members are artists and independent contractors so 'startup' probably sounds less risky than it should).

Not surprisingly, it's the bigco lifers we run into at holiday parties, who were always too afraid to take the plunge, that say 'I know a guy who's hiring if you want a job.' I tell them something like 'thank you for letting me know, but my plate is full with my business'...what I really want to say is 'I'm not *ing unemployed, you jackass, and I'm working harder than you ever have or will!"

I think delivery is important. If you are showing enthusiasm while explaining the different concepts and possibilities it's often infectious. If you can do a demo-- awesome!

When dealing with money-focused people it helps to reassure them that you can support yourself by consulting when needed.

Some people are very fearful and often think everything will always go wrong. Those are the most difficult people to reach. I often give up once I detect someone has that characteristic. Just sort of change subjects and find common ground somewhere else that does not involve talking about risk, success and failure.

I used to say "I draw things." Now it is "I make things."
"I make computers go fast."

(I'm a PhD student in high performance systems.)

Sounds like you're a salesman. :)
You might be surprised how much salesmanship has to go into writing academic papers.
Just had this happen to me over Thanksgiving and it went something like this...

Grandma: What the heck is a TicketStumbler? Are you still just playing at the computer all day?

Me: Oh, have you been to our site Grandma?

Grandma: No.

Me: Well Grandma, have you ever heard of Expedia, Kayak or Orbitz?

Grandma: No.

Me: What about Bizrate or Pricegrabber?

Grandma: No.

Me: Hmm...well essentially what we do is take sports & concert tickets from all over the internet and put them on one website. So instead of going to multiple websites you can just go to one. You know how you put all your recipe cards in one place? Well we do that, but with tickets.

Grandma: Oh I see. Well, that's nice dear; would you like a beer while you work? Or how about some more candy?

Me: I love you Grandma.

My favorite quote from Dan's Grandma:

Dan: Where'd all the Margaritas go, Grandma?

Grandma: I drank 'em all up!

Ha, you're lucky. My grandpa managed a few programming projects in the accounting industry during the 70's/80's. Every time I tell him about something I'm working on, he tells a long story about how he either invented or pioneered the concepts behind that project.
This is a tough one to be honest, my parents are more impressed by the kid down the street who repairs ipods etc... than me working as an sw engineer. Most if they're anything like my family won't understand what they can't see... that is until it makes the 'print media', where at least it's tangible.
I've basically given up trying to really explain it. I just say I own a business that operates "on the Internet" and hope they stop asking questions after that. My favorite quotes:

Dad: When you told me you were quitting school and moving to Boston to start some Internet company I thought it was just a pipe dream. But, you made me really proud.

Grandma 2: I heard your business is doing well. Of course I don't understand what it is you do, but I'm proud of you!

No good quotes from my other Grandma; she can barely remember who I am anymore :(

Don't whine, you're lucky. My grandmothers didn't like me to start with and now they're all dead.
I wasn't exactly whining, but in the spirit of this idiotic argument, I'd say you got lucky. They didn't like you, so no need to like them. Now they're dead. You won.
I tell them I am in "Income Redistribution" - Gambling related software.
I tell them what I hope to be the truth - I write software which helps businesses run their business better.
I usually just say I'm a drug dealer.
Do they then ask you for help with their drug problems?
They ask me for a prescription.