What if you just are tired of this empty propaganda? The people peddling this message have been systematically WRONG about everything for the past generation.
Who has China invaded? Beyond the occasional regional border disputes, like in Vietnam, I'm hard-pressed to find any.
Taiwan still claims they are part of China. It is part of the public farce everyone is playing. To claim otherwise would throw an egg in face of China.
Look I do agree with you. Taiwan is it's own country and deserves to be. It's treated and acts that way in every sense of the word.
You are right the KMT has now lost 4 presidential elections in a row and the tides are changing. But they still are the majority party in the legislature and will continue to exert tons of control.
My claim is only that Taiwan needs to pretend it still feels united with the mainland to maintain the political farce and keep Beijing happy. That for Taiwan to claim independence would be a political game of chess as then that means Taiwan is no longer just a breakaway province in rebellion - it's actually succeeded.
Maybe officially you are correct but you can't claim the above has no bearing on the relationships between the two nations.
Taiwan has its own MILITARY FORCE, government, rule of law, economy, alliances for 70 years now. It is de facto an independent country. Unless someone brings that tired argument of Taiwan claims China as its own - no, China threatened to invade if Taiwan relinquishes that claim. And no, just because China forces other countries to not recognize Taiwan as a country, doesn't make it so. (if anything, most countries are now starting to freely associate with Taiwan, now that China is in decline)
Yes they do, and like I said, think they should be left to get on with things on their own. However they are a break away geopolitical state that was only enabled to do so, by support from US to protect them, if the US hadn't enabled them the CCP would of invaded many many decades ago. You can brush this inconvenient fact under the carpet, but it's not a simple and clear cut as you make out. Both sides taking the extreme stance is why it can't be solved.
Taiwan WAS a break away state 70 years ago that is an independent country FOR THE LAST 70 years. doesn't matter which ally (US, Japan, whoever) Taiwan had, it is operating as an independent country.
If China attacks Taiwan, they are attacking another country. Just like Russia attacking Ukraine. Doesn't matter what psychobabble a dictator spouts.
Well if US stops protecting Taiwan, and China invades, that will end that debate. The new debate will be, Taiwan WAS an independent state and now isn't, and some one will come along and "yeah well that was 70 years ago!".
Psychobabble or not, it boils down to how much anyone wants to get involved in a nasty fight to save someone else, which might end up causing more damage to Taiwan even if they do. I don't think this is right but is the world has always operated, not sure anything has changed.
It's very convenient that whenever a dictator wants to invade and conquer a neighboring country, all they have to do is declare that it historically belonged to them and suddenly the "anti-imperialists" have no problem with it.
It's the exact same rhetorical playbook Putin used with Ukraine.
I believe the problem "anti-imperialists" believe they are facing is that if they don't relativize Russian and potential Chinese wars, they feel that people get worked up into a war frency.
They believe we need a reminder that our elite are not much better and that the alleged ethnical cleansing of Gaza is such a timely reminder. As a way to not get us dragged into yet more wars.
There's also some completely innocent Australian divers that were maliciously injured for no reason, in flagrant violation of any acceptable inter-country interactions.
China is the biggest importer of Iran's oil. Iran's oil exports reach 5-year high, with China as top buyer
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/Iran-s-.... Iran supports Houthi, and both with Iranian drones and Houthi missiles, are attacking US and European ships.
If no Western technology was found in Russian weapon that would be a valid point. But this is not the case as demonstrated by multiple news outlet.
If China was not importing Iran’s oil the current oil price would be at least the double of what it is now, creating a lot of problem in Western countries. That’s why this will not change for the time being as this is a loose loose game.
Who said anything about invasions? You could at least respond to the actual allegations made by the person you're responding to. There are perfectly good responses you could make to them rather than changing the subject.
It also continues to farm human beings. Tens of thousands of human beings each year are murdered to order (or, more accurately, they have their organs cut out and then are left to die) for Western transplant tourists who will pay upwards of $100k for the prime cuts.
They and their medical systems and governments know full well that a heart transplant scheduled on a particular date three months in advance admits of no pleasant explanations. But nobody cares.
China is an enemy of the US, the Gazans are an enemy if the US, the Yemeni which the US are bombing are an enemy of the US, Biden just said Iran is an enemy of the US.
Russia is an enemy of the US, Syria is an enemy of the US, North Korea is an enemy of the US. Venezuela is an enemy of the US, Cuba is an enemy of the US.
> I do want the American people to know that we cannot afford to sleep on this danger. As a government and a society, we’ve got to remain vigilant and actively defend against the threat Beijing poses. Otherwise, China has shown it will make us pay.
The fact that TikTok is still allowed to run amok when the PRC has their hands all over it and also shows completely different content to Chinese users is the greatest irony and crime here
You don't need to speak Chinese to know that any large corporation that exists in the PRC does so at the behest of their government, and must kowtow to their surveillance demands accordingly.
Every American social media company is a front for NSA surveillance and CIA propaganda, what's your point? I thought we were supposed to believe in free markets and competition around here.
Again, I see little difference between the PRC and USA in this regard. As an American, I couldn't care less about Chinese surveillance. But my own government has an active interest in monitoring my politics for thoughtcrime and influencing my thoughts and actions. Making a moral panic only about the foreign platform seems, itself, like propaganda.
Thank you. I cannot understand people who are more frightened by foreigners knowing about their penchant for horse porn than by their local cops knowing the same embarrassing facts.
The moral panic isn’t remotely limited to foreign platforms, not even 24 hours ago the Senate Judiciary Committee publicly hung online sexual abuse of children around the CEO of Facebook’s neck, complete with a broadcasted apology before asking the TikTok CEO if they’re a member of the CCP in the same hearing.
Countries other than the USA have agency and interests, and are entirely capable of seeking to influence your thoughts and actions to affect change if it furthers their goals (it is literally an election year).
Tiktok has a superpower of injecting random people into your feed, which could be and would be used for manipulation. Or suppressing specific posts. Probably that is why meta did the same (before they could only do it with ads, but nobody watches ads anyway).
Having a foreign government covertly influence your thoughts and actions should be of concern. It's one thing to have your thoughts and actions be changed by a logical process; it's a whole other concern when an agonistic foreign power is expending non-trivial amounts of resources to bend your opinion.
This isn't mutually exclusive to being concerned about the US government actions in this space but the risks are completely different.
Seems like you are overly concerned with the devil you know while ignoring the threat of the devil you don’t. If you think the US government isn’t your friend, well… you are right. But if you are an American, the PRC is your enemy. They actually want bad things to happen to the citizens of the US. And they have the leverage to cause some of those things to happen.
oh please, spare us. Do tell what china has done to the US citizenry. Consider that you're attempting revolutions, surrounding them with military bases, arming separatists, and instigating trade wars. Your government hates the Chinese people. Don't project your vile tendencies onto others.
No matter the morality of the government’s actions, I would rather be on the side of the biggest guns and do what I can to undermine the size of the other guy’s guns, unless the other guy offers me a better life
then admit that instead of fearmongering and promoting actively harmful sinophobic views. it's the blind and naive i am taking issue with, not the geopolitical realists. even if i disagree with both
Sinophobic? You just sound like a tankie or a shill. The Chinese government is a cartel that actively trade in the stolen organs of their own citizenry. The US may have completely squandered its global hegemony entering into useless wars, but the Chinese preside over a horror show.
Signal isn't exactly trustworthy here either. Signal still likes to brag about the times when they told the government they couldn't hand over the data the feds wanted because they never collect/store it in the first place, but a long time ago they started collecting and permanently storing in the cloud exactly that same data. Worse, they refuse to update their privacy policy to reflect what they've started doing, meaning that the very first sentence of that policy is an outright lie. Personally, I take that as a massive dead canary and assume that signal has been completely compromised.
There are alternatives out there which I hope still deliver on the promise of allowing secure communications, and we're free to roll our own, but I strongly suspect that the US gov will move in on anything that gains enough of a following.
I think that we're still far better off than the Chinese, but we're not as free as we pretend that we are.
Every American social media|insurance|telecom|financial|tech company are a surveillance endpoint for the FBI or LE in general and/or a foreign policy endpoint in terms of being an effector for economic warfare.
No legal fiction is inured to the machinations of its host state.
Social media companies have also their own nefarious goals so you don't have only to worry about your government but also about the (un)intended consequences of attention capitalism
The fact that *insert American tech company * is still allowed to run amok when the *insert 3 letter agency* has their hands all over it and openly flaunts it is the greatest irony and crime here
No, they're not allowed because they don't want to follow the same laws that Chinese companies have to follow. The rules are the same for Chinese companies and those from other countries.
The divide is largely due to the fact the Chinese government has regulations about the quality and kind of social media content platforms are allowed to distribute, including emphasizing educational content for kids etc. Possibly other nefarious reasons you allude to, but those content standard regulations are sufficient enough to explain why Chinese content is segregated - they literally can’t share the same content selection inside China, so otherwise would have to conform to Chinese regulations outside China as well. Those regulations would make TikTok much less profitable outside China, and they’re not required to do absolutely anything to “improve” the content quality outside China, so they naturally optimize towards engagement and stickiness. That incentive is shared by all social media companies, and is why the Chinese regulations exist to begin with - because what’s engaging and sticky is likely really the absolute worst crap ever.
> because what’s engaging and sticky is likely really the absolute worst crap ever
I looked up the most popular/viewed youtube channels not long ago and it was either corporate advertising (music mainly) or largely trash. Out of all the great content on youtube what rises to the top seems to be ads and garbage.
And even in the western world companies would do self-censorship, so they would pass rules of the apple store (reddit case), pass "rules" of payment providers (mastercard/visa for OF) or please the advertisers (youtube/ig rules).
Just recently, one chinese game company extra content for western audience and pissed of the local chinese users.
> If or when China decides the time has come to strike, they’re not focused solely on political or military targets. We can see from where they position themselves, across civilian infrastructure, that low blows aren’t just a possibility in the event of a conflict. Low blows against civilians are part of China’s plan.
Is it just me, or does it feel like there are some strange comments in this thread. Like responses to comments that add nothing but trying to shut down conversations... Patriots I guess
Totally. Seeing this conflict from an outsider perspective (not American nor Chinese), makes me puke.
US has been killing and plaguing millions of people with their crappy social networks, with depression and draining their attention, using it to monitor and spread American "democratic" values around the world.
Now that China has 01 social network that is successful (nowhere as close as the ones owned by Meta tho), Americans and politicians think that China is a menace and it's the end of the world. Of course the PRC have influence in Tiktok and will use it. The US has been doing the same for ages.
My only hope is that we get more and more alternatives, up to the point that American Big Techs become irrelevant, and so does this conflict.
I wonder when the first American nuke will be used because of a meme being shared in a social network
I agree that it's kind of silly to worry about social media platforms, but microchips, drones, routers, cameras, etc are another story. It'd be a good thing for the US to try and be less dependent on China and their environmentally disastrous manufacturing and their slave labor for everything we own, especially when it comes to things that could be sensitive. If the Department of Defense wasn't looking at the companies in China we depend on and considering the impacts that could have to our security they wouldn't be doing their job.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 134 ms ] threadWho has China invaded? Beyond the occasional regional border disputes, like in Vietnam, I'm hard-pressed to find any.
The only reason they haven't acted is the US has said outright they'd intervene.
This is the second comment like this in this thread, is it propaganda or naivety? It's hard to tell.
[1] https://apnews.com/article/china-taiwan-elections-military-t....
From a day-to-day perspective, they treat each other as separate countries in practice, if not in name.
You are right the KMT has now lost 4 presidential elections in a row and the tides are changing. But they still are the majority party in the legislature and will continue to exert tons of control.
My claim is only that Taiwan needs to pretend it still feels united with the mainland to maintain the political farce and keep Beijing happy. That for Taiwan to claim independence would be a political game of chess as then that means Taiwan is no longer just a breakaway province in rebellion - it's actually succeeded.
Maybe officially you are correct but you can't claim the above has no bearing on the relationships between the two nations.
If China attacks Taiwan, they are attacking another country. Just like Russia attacking Ukraine. Doesn't matter what psychobabble a dictator spouts.
Psychobabble or not, it boils down to how much anyone wants to get involved in a nasty fight to save someone else, which might end up causing more damage to Taiwan even if they do. I don't think this is right but is the world has always operated, not sure anything has changed.
It's the exact same rhetorical playbook Putin used with Ukraine.
They believe we need a reminder that our elite are not much better and that the alleged ethnical cleansing of Gaza is such a timely reminder. As a way to not get us dragged into yet more wars.
I guess.
Well, not whom but rather what large body of water.
China is the biggest importer of Iran's oil. Iran's oil exports reach 5-year high, with China as top buyer https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/Iran-s-.... Iran supports Houthi, and both with Iranian drones and Houthi missiles, are attacking US and European ships.
If China was not importing Iran’s oil the current oil price would be at least the double of what it is now, creating a lot of problem in Western countries. That’s why this will not change for the time being as this is a loose loose game.
This has got to be a joke…
Tibet in 1951
India in 1962
China-Vietnam war 1979
Currently, China has border dispute with every country it shares the border with, except two: North Korea and Pakistan
It is illegally building outposts in S. China Sea encroaching on every other country’s marine zone.
It is constantly threatening Taiwan
It is building Navy at a massive pace, attacking every country using its hacker force
It is a singular biggest threat to world peace at this time.
They and their medical systems and governments know full well that a heart transplant scheduled on a particular date three months in advance admits of no pleasant explanations. But nobody cares.
China Tribunal judgement (2020): https://chinatribunal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ChinaTr...
2022 update from Ethan Gutmann (who wrote one of the major early reports): https://chrissmith.house.gov/uploadedfiles/gutmann_-_witness...
China is an enemy of the US, the Gazans are an enemy if the US, the Yemeni which the US are bombing are an enemy of the US, Biden just said Iran is an enemy of the US.
Russia is an enemy of the US, Syria is an enemy of the US, North Korea is an enemy of the US. Venezuela is an enemy of the US, Cuba is an enemy of the US.
It just goes on and on and on.
“God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movemen...
I just thought it was funny you included them in your list. Not that you’re funny, silly maybe, but not funny.
How do their prices compare to their non-Chinese competitors?
> I do want the American people to know that we cannot afford to sleep on this danger. As a government and a society, we’ve got to remain vigilant and actively defend against the threat Beijing poses. Otherwise, China has shown it will make us pay.
> Any Americans announcing their support for Chinese EV cars or DJI drones or TikTok in U.S is willfully ignorant
Oh they know. Maybe they have learned from the war on Iraq and Afghanistan to not trust the Washington elite on the matter of national insecurity.
Countries other than the USA have agency and interests, and are entirely capable of seeking to influence your thoughts and actions to affect change if it furthers their goals (it is literally an election year).
This isn't mutually exclusive to being concerned about the US government actions in this space but the risks are completely different.
There are alternatives out there which I hope still deliver on the promise of allowing secure communications, and we're free to roll our own, but I strongly suspect that the US gov will move in on anything that gains enough of a following.
I think that we're still far better off than the Chinese, but we're not as free as we pretend that we are.
No legal fiction is inured to the machinations of its host state.
Social media companies have also their own nefarious goals so you don't have only to worry about your government but also about the (un)intended consequences of attention capitalism
I’m not taking a side fwiw. I think it’s all sad and nation states, nationalism, etc, are the cause of almost all ills.
I looked up the most popular/viewed youtube channels not long ago and it was either corporate advertising (music mainly) or largely trash. Out of all the great content on youtube what rises to the top seems to be ads and garbage.
Just recently, one chinese game company extra content for western audience and pissed of the local chinese users.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/speeches/director-wrays-opening-sta...
> If or when China decides the time has come to strike, they’re not focused solely on political or military targets. We can see from where they position themselves, across civilian infrastructure, that low blows aren’t just a possibility in the event of a conflict. Low blows against civilians are part of China’s plan.
US has been killing and plaguing millions of people with their crappy social networks, with depression and draining their attention, using it to monitor and spread American "democratic" values around the world.
Now that China has 01 social network that is successful (nowhere as close as the ones owned by Meta tho), Americans and politicians think that China is a menace and it's the end of the world. Of course the PRC have influence in Tiktok and will use it. The US has been doing the same for ages.
My only hope is that we get more and more alternatives, up to the point that American Big Techs become irrelevant, and so does this conflict.
I wonder when the first American nuke will be used because of a meme being shared in a social network