I would encourage you to take a look at what policies are actually being put in place in Argentina. Milei has kind of an impossible task.
He has to unwind massive government entitlements to stave off a full economic collapse. Argentina is not the US where they can print and borrow endlessly. He came into office with over 200% inflation. An economy can’t function like that forever.
He isn’t just slashing indiscriminately and I don’t see anyway for Argentina to dig it self out of 40 years of irresponsible spending in the 2 months he has been in office. Also remember that he has to forge a coalition with others to get anything done. His party doesn’t have anywhere close to a majority in the legislature.
EDIT: Just looked up and inflation was over 200% annualized when Milei took office.
> Argentina is not the US where they can print and borrow endlessly
Argentina is the U.S. if it printed and borrowed endlessly. The reaction ordinary Americans had against 8% inflation is what Argentinians had against 200%. America was willing to risk a recession to bring inflation down; we’ll see if Argentina has similar patience.
Milei was a long shot candidate and he was elected on the back of this one issue. Dollarizing the economy and the radical measures Milei ran on in that election have a very real risk of collapsing Argentina. But, the general feeling here from the people I know, so anecdotal of course, is that they would rather risk economic collapse than guarantee it.
Also you act as if America is some bastion of fiscal responsibility. Its position as the worlds largest economy guarantees that it can borrow at the best rates. The dollar being the worlds reserve currency ensures that it can’t devalue too quickly as there is built in massive demand just for normal trade.
So, it has large advantages that Argentina can only dream of. The hill Argentina needs to climb is far steeper than what the US has to contend with.
> you act as if America is some bastion of fiscal responsibility. Its position as the worlds largest economy guarantees that it can borrow at the best rates. The dollar being the worlds reserve currency
America is no bastion of anything responsibility. But its currency and economy became what they are, in large part, due to its economic culture. If America spent like Argentina, the dollar would lose its position and its economy collapse.
"January was the first full month in office for Milei, a far-right libertarian who took office in December, and it ended with a positive balance for public-sector finances of $589 million at the official exchange rate, the government said late Friday."
He isn't a far-right anything and this phrasing taints the article and subsequent discussion. I urge commentators to please not project your domestic politics into one of the weirdest countries in the world. Especially if you have never been there.
After spending some months exploring that place and interacting with all manner of folks "There are 4 kind of economies: developed, undeveloped, Japan and Argentina" is one of the truest things I've ever heard in my life. It just doesn't map to anything you're familiar with.
The system there is extremely broken and corrupt and has been since before you were born. It is going through a chaotic reset. They might dollarize. I think they should and definitely wish them the best.
Completely orthogonal to social policies I know many on this website might have a problem with.
>He isn't a far-right anything
Libertarian anarcho-capitalist memes aside. Save everyone some time, and just own and embrace the shitty people the ideology creates
In terms of policies enacted thus far, I have to agree.
That said, Milei’s anarcho-capitalist views are fairly described as extreme, as are his anti-abortion views, though he’s also a liberal on drugs, guns, same-sex marriage, prostitution and gender identity, and seeks a closer alliance with North America and Europe’s democracies over Russia and China.
There are no other terms friend, that is the only thing that matters. Who decides what is "extreme"? This is a very tedious tactic to force values unto others and ruin any possibility of intelligent conversation. Just making a salad of it all.
What people (especially the "extreme far lefties" overrunning this website and mindlessly downvoting everyone and thing they are instructed to dislike) fail to understand that filtering information about far away places through the media divorces you almost completely from reality.
A lot of his antics are political theatre. To parse out what he means you'd actually have to be a local and know a lot of history. There is simply no avoiding the fact that previous Argentine governments have robbed the population blind. I'm talking scandal after scandal of the duffel bags filled with cash verity. It is almost beyond the comprehension of a westerner from a developed country. Look into Peronism (!= socialism) sometimes.
Quoting him out of context makes for great clickbait and strips it of all meaning. Normal people over there are concerned with literally not starving at the moment, these social issues that are oh-so-important to you don't really rank.
But hey, if someone has no clue why they might want to attempt dollarization of course they'd prefer to focus on and project their pet domestic issue.
It is also super obvious that this thread would not be flagged and erased from the front page if the news was negative. Which is doubly pathetic because he truly is not what the downvoters imagine him to be.
Good guy or bad not for me to say, but simply does not fit the regular boxes.
Extreme doesn’t mean bad, it just means at an end of a distribution.
> the "extreme far lefties" overruning this website
Hacker News is, in general, badly described as even leftist. Centre-left, maybe, but with significant variance.
> filtering information about far away places through the media divorces you almost completely from reality
Sorry, this is bullshit. If you pick garbage media, sure. Otherwise, unless you have agency contacts in the country, you’re trawling through an unrepresentative sample of anecdotes. What you’re saying with this statement, in essence, is that your arguments are unassailable with data or reporting. That obviously undermines your own credibility.
For what it’s worth, the international financial press has been cautiously supportive of most of Milei’s policies. And increasingly so since he’s taken office. But Milei’s policies depend, in large part, on international investors seeing Argentina as investable. If you’re saying he is inscrutable except by select internet commenters such as yourself, his policies will fail.
> lot of his antics are political theatre
Most politics is theatre. It’s fair to describe his views as expressed, whether antics or not.
> Quoting him out of context
Milei’s anarcho-capitalist views are not quoted out of context.
> Normal people over there are concerned with literally not starving
Sure. That doesn’t change what he’s said. (And what he’s said doesn’t change the sensibility, in my opinion, of his policy positions.)
I also wouldn’t hold up Argentina’s voters as knowledgeable about economics. They got themselves into this mess in fair elections after all.
> Hacker News is, in general, badly described as even leftist. Centre-left, maybe, but with significant variance.
Sure, but you very well know exactly which crowd brigadiers. There's a reason why this thread has been disappeared. Above there is a comment "That is what decades of socialism does to a country." that initially was downvoted to hell.
Try it yourself sometime, politely. Or peek at any thread vaguely related to Elon, 'etc, for the overt seething passive-aggressiveness nonsense.
> Extreme doesn’t mean bad, it just means at an end of a distribution.
To you and I. Sadly in the present day media space when any view is described as far-right or far-left it is typically as a sort of slur and target for wrong think.
> Sure. That doesn’t change what he’s said. (And what he’s said doesn’t change the sensibility, in my opinion, of his policy positions.)
> I also wouldn’t hold up Argentina’s voters as knowledgeable about economics. They got themselves into this mess in fair elections after all.
That is a very unique story many decades in the making. And once they are in this mess it is difficult to get out. So their political discourse, out of context, does not translate correctly.
> there is a comment "That is what decades of socialism does to a country." that initially was downvoted to hell
Because it’s incoherent. The comment it responded to cited the cost of these reforms. It was a no free lunch statement. Responding with a thoughtless meme adds nothing to the discussion.
> To you and I. Sadly in the present day media space
We’re the ones discussing. Railing against a disembodied media is incredibly corrosive to one’s credibility. Especially when it’s incorrect: the term “extreme” is regularly used as praise.
This thread was on the front page before being disappeared prior to any even remotely objectionable comments were made. To experience the phenomena yourself you are welcome to politely try a few times and say something lefty ideologues don't approve of in some other thread.
> For what it’s worth, the international financial press has been cautiously supportive of most of Milei’s policies. And increasingly so since he’s taken office. But Milei’s policies depend, in large part, on international investors seeing Argentina as investable. If you’re saying he is inscrutable except by select internet commenters such as yourself, his policies will fail.
I never said he is inscrutable. I said it requires some additional effort to understand. Step outside the international financial press that you find reasonable and observe in what terms he is discussed elsewhere and whether or not they are focusing on understanding the financial challenges of Argentina and its history or redirect the conversation elsewhere.
I believe radical is a better wording than extreme, as the goal of Milei's politics is trying to make life better through a non-violent manner for all non-corrupt citizens. Even Milei knows it that he's running an experiment, and he doesn't deny it.
While it's extreme politics as well, that word is mostly used for violent politics that try to gain advantage for a group of people while bringing suffering to another big group of people.
21 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 39.5 ms ] threadHe has to unwind massive government entitlements to stave off a full economic collapse. Argentina is not the US where they can print and borrow endlessly. He came into office with over 200% inflation. An economy can’t function like that forever.
He isn’t just slashing indiscriminately and I don’t see anyway for Argentina to dig it self out of 40 years of irresponsible spending in the 2 months he has been in office. Also remember that he has to forge a coalition with others to get anything done. His party doesn’t have anywhere close to a majority in the legislature.
EDIT: Just looked up and inflation was over 200% annualized when Milei took office.
Argentina is the U.S. if it printed and borrowed endlessly. The reaction ordinary Americans had against 8% inflation is what Argentinians had against 200%. America was willing to risk a recession to bring inflation down; we’ll see if Argentina has similar patience.
Also you act as if America is some bastion of fiscal responsibility. Its position as the worlds largest economy guarantees that it can borrow at the best rates. The dollar being the worlds reserve currency ensures that it can’t devalue too quickly as there is built in massive demand just for normal trade.
So, it has large advantages that Argentina can only dream of. The hill Argentina needs to climb is far steeper than what the US has to contend with.
America is no bastion of anything responsibility. But its currency and economy became what they are, in large part, due to its economic culture. If America spent like Argentina, the dollar would lose its position and its economy collapse.
After spending some months exploring that place and interacting with all manner of folks "There are 4 kind of economies: developed, undeveloped, Japan and Argentina" is one of the truest things I've ever heard in my life. It just doesn't map to anything you're familiar with.
The system there is extremely broken and corrupt and has been since before you were born. It is going through a chaotic reset. They might dollarize. I think they should and definitely wish them the best.
Completely orthogonal to social policies I know many on this website might have a problem with.
In terms of policies enacted thus far, I have to agree.
That said, Milei’s anarcho-capitalist views are fairly described as extreme, as are his anti-abortion views, though he’s also a liberal on drugs, guns, same-sex marriage, prostitution and gender identity, and seeks a closer alliance with North America and Europe’s democracies over Russia and China.
What people (especially the "extreme far lefties" overrunning this website and mindlessly downvoting everyone and thing they are instructed to dislike) fail to understand that filtering information about far away places through the media divorces you almost completely from reality.
A lot of his antics are political theatre. To parse out what he means you'd actually have to be a local and know a lot of history. There is simply no avoiding the fact that previous Argentine governments have robbed the population blind. I'm talking scandal after scandal of the duffel bags filled with cash verity. It is almost beyond the comprehension of a westerner from a developed country. Look into Peronism (!= socialism) sometimes.
Quoting him out of context makes for great clickbait and strips it of all meaning. Normal people over there are concerned with literally not starving at the moment, these social issues that are oh-so-important to you don't really rank.
But hey, if someone has no clue why they might want to attempt dollarization of course they'd prefer to focus on and project their pet domestic issue.
It is also super obvious that this thread would not be flagged and erased from the front page if the news was negative. Which is doubly pathetic because he truly is not what the downvoters imagine him to be.
Good guy or bad not for me to say, but simply does not fit the regular boxes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
Extreme doesn’t mean bad, it just means at an end of a distribution.
> the "extreme far lefties" overruning this website
Hacker News is, in general, badly described as even leftist. Centre-left, maybe, but with significant variance.
> filtering information about far away places through the media divorces you almost completely from reality
Sorry, this is bullshit. If you pick garbage media, sure. Otherwise, unless you have agency contacts in the country, you’re trawling through an unrepresentative sample of anecdotes. What you’re saying with this statement, in essence, is that your arguments are unassailable with data or reporting. That obviously undermines your own credibility.
For what it’s worth, the international financial press has been cautiously supportive of most of Milei’s policies. And increasingly so since he’s taken office. But Milei’s policies depend, in large part, on international investors seeing Argentina as investable. If you’re saying he is inscrutable except by select internet commenters such as yourself, his policies will fail.
> lot of his antics are political theatre
Most politics is theatre. It’s fair to describe his views as expressed, whether antics or not.
> Quoting him out of context
Milei’s anarcho-capitalist views are not quoted out of context.
> Normal people over there are concerned with literally not starving
Sure. That doesn’t change what he’s said. (And what he’s said doesn’t change the sensibility, in my opinion, of his policy positions.)
I also wouldn’t hold up Argentina’s voters as knowledgeable about economics. They got themselves into this mess in fair elections after all.
Sure, but you very well know exactly which crowd brigadiers. There's a reason why this thread has been disappeared. Above there is a comment "That is what decades of socialism does to a country." that initially was downvoted to hell.
Try it yourself sometime, politely. Or peek at any thread vaguely related to Elon, 'etc, for the overt seething passive-aggressiveness nonsense.
> Extreme doesn’t mean bad, it just means at an end of a distribution.
To you and I. Sadly in the present day media space when any view is described as far-right or far-left it is typically as a sort of slur and target for wrong think.
> Sure. That doesn’t change what he’s said. (And what he’s said doesn’t change the sensibility, in my opinion, of his policy positions.) > I also wouldn’t hold up Argentina’s voters as knowledgeable about economics. They got themselves into this mess in fair elections after all.
That is a very unique story many decades in the making. And once they are in this mess it is difficult to get out. So their political discourse, out of context, does not translate correctly.
Because it’s incoherent. The comment it responded to cited the cost of these reforms. It was a no free lunch statement. Responding with a thoughtless meme adds nothing to the discussion.
> To you and I. Sadly in the present day media space
We’re the ones discussing. Railing against a disembodied media is incredibly corrosive to one’s credibility. Especially when it’s incorrect: the term “extreme” is regularly used as praise.
> We’re the ones discussing.
This thread was on the front page before being disappeared prior to any even remotely objectionable comments were made. To experience the phenomena yourself you are welcome to politely try a few times and say something lefty ideologues don't approve of in some other thread.
> For what it’s worth, the international financial press has been cautiously supportive of most of Milei’s policies. And increasingly so since he’s taken office. But Milei’s policies depend, in large part, on international investors seeing Argentina as investable. If you’re saying he is inscrutable except by select internet commenters such as yourself, his policies will fail.
I never said he is inscrutable. I said it requires some additional effort to understand. Step outside the international financial press that you find reasonable and observe in what terms he is discussed elsewhere and whether or not they are focusing on understanding the financial challenges of Argentina and its history or redirect the conversation elsewhere.
While it's extreme politics as well, that word is mostly used for violent politics that try to gain advantage for a group of people while bringing suffering to another big group of people.
Extreme vs extremist. Subtle difference. Chemotherapy is an extreme measure.