Ask HN: How to survive as a homeless programmer in the winter (AB, Canada)?
I've been trying to get "social support" through Alberta's online social services for over a month now and I even went so far as to walk 5 hours (round-trip, I have no car/license) to a physical Alberta Works center but I have not received any reason as to why I haven't had any response, email, or really any followup in any form from them despite trying to reach out to them through every means they provide. I also brought up the fact I had security concerns in regards to their systems when I went in person but that was brushed aside/ignored (to be fair, perhaps there's an official way to submit concerns? idk, I've just been very stressed and frustrated as of late). Funnily enough, a few days before I got evicted I received a letter telling me their systems were hacked a month ago and my SIN, DOB, all my personal info was stolen from their systems so now also worrying about my identity being stolen.
CW: trauma dumping, sorry.. I grew up alone for the first 8 years of life with an addict father. I've been diagnosed with PTSD. My mother left me to escape the abuse herself. When she regained custody it was better but she was a foster kid herself. She won't provide me a couch to sleep on + she kicked me out after my episode of psychosis years ago. I've been on my own since. I don't have friends/family I can turn to, some of that is partly my bad choices but I also got a crappy hand in life. I really hope a VC opportunity/job application will work out soon. I wasted lots of $ on a psychologist for 6 years to try to "heal" (now I think 80%? of that "industry" is BS.), was told not to worry about being homeless + turned out that they're into astrology.. + recommended against my decision to stop seeing them after I saw red flags, I made the mistake of listening and wasted more time/money due to loneliness :/ End CW
I'm kind of at my wits end now. I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week but security got suspicious + said I have to spend more time visiting and less time lounging. I don't know where I'm going to sleep tonight + I'm scared of having my laptop stolen. I'm looking for work in anything now. I know how to program, how to learn/adapt "quickly" (so can most people in this industry I'd guess lol), write ETL pipelines, develop websites from front-to-back, reverse engineer at a 'basic' level, deploy to Linode/AWS/DO/Azure, basic DevOps, Bash scripting, Go, Python, TS/JS, etc. But I have no official degree/certs. I tend to get along with people I talk to IRL but I'm not great at forming long-term IRL relationships except online.Not sure why I'm sharing this with HN, doesnt seem fitting but this is one of the few places I've been able to find like-minded people who think/share cool things on topics I like, I've always struggled to find that IRL :/ Anyways, I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now, I'll likely not be back online to reply to comments anytime soon. I hope I'll be able to survive tonight/the next few weeks until it warms up :/ I hope none of you screw up/have to go through something like ...
76 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 147 ms ] threadSending you an email. Unsure of what help I can be, but I feel called to find out.
Yes, OP has troubles, they have spelt them out.
Your "concerns" have zero insight, they are an appeal to heartlessness. Who are you writing them for?
It does indeed. Do you have that deeper understanding? Are you familiar with the job market for devs in Alberta? Have you attempted to understand what reasons there may be for that, or have you just taken a wild assumption (you know what that makes out of you and me)?
> Questionable Survival Tactics: Mentioning social engineering to access hospital facilities and considering theft for food are alarming. While food banks do exist in Canada, their mention of theft instead of seeking such legitimate aid is troubling.
No. If you truly believe any of that sentence please go do some Googling and reflection. There are many reasons why people avoid shelters and foodbanks.
> Story Appealing to a Specific Audience: Their narrative seems particularly designed to resonate with readers of a tech-focused forum like Y Combinator. This targeted appeal could be genuine but also might be a strategy to elicit sympathy and assistance from a specific demographic.
Or it could be that they're part of the same demographic.
> Recurring Pattern of Issues: There's a consistent theme of conflicts and problems in various aspects of their life, including with government systems, psychologists, employers, and personal relationships. The fact that they are the common denominator in these issues is concerning.
I think it's safe to say that most people have (or have had) conflicts with government systems, employers, and personal relationships; and it's quite possible to get a bad psychologist.
I don't know who emilsedgh is but I think it's also safe to say that they read the same post you did. You're not providing any info here, you're just sharing your opinion on why OP should continue being homeless (which essentially boils down to "because he's honest", by the way: he could've easily lied and pretended he fits in perfectly everywhere and just had rotten luck).
some you see them as thugs when it was once a bright individual who had perfect grades; just needed the support to get to where they was destined...instead some parents sell their kids for money instead, than nurturing potential.
reality far from how we was taught, open your eyes; evil is being done and being covered as mental illness
This is pretty common IMHO. So should not be regarded as a red flag.
No its really not. People need to eat and not freeze. Period.
If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would write a note to myself: "Be prepared for more of this."
> I also brought up the fact I had security concerns in regards to their systems when I went in person but that was brushed aside/ignored
If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.
> she kicked me out after my episode of psychosis
So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality, leading to them being kicked out of a house. I know it's important to avoid stigmatizing those with mental illness, but the person has indicated that they had a bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that this psychosis could occur again.
> I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week
Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?
> I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now
Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.
Edit: My last point was not meant to suggest that under these circumstances, stealing a bit of food is reprehensible. Sometimes you've gotta do what you've gotta do. But broadcasting it is the red flag. It indicates a lack of discretion. I'm not trying to be callous here, but GP asked about red flags, so I was trying to describe some.
I mean... ok? So don't try to make their FOSS product your own product?
> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.
Ew. I would wonder why the staff wasn't able to tell him there is a process.
> So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality
"years ago" in an unstable situation.
> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?
I'm pretty sure "social engineer" here means something along the lines of "yeah I'm visiting my cousin"
> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.
Unless they're working for a grocery store or restaurant I don't think their employer will be worried about them stealing food.
Much less, this gem, argumentation that you'd expect a 12 year old in debate class to be able to skewer if they wanted a B.
>> I'm going to go and try to find/steal some food now
> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.
This person needs social and professional help, and the situation is very unfortunate. But based on the content of the OP if you bring them into your workplace (the assumed context here in this particular thread) without those two things then you should be sure you know what you're doing.
"it's a red flag if an employee ever stole food for a meal / camped at a hospital while homeless" isn't.
Upper-class a-human inanity unrecognizable by 90% of the populace. I wouldn't believe it was a real person making an honest argument if I hadn't self-made my way from inner city Buffalo startup to Boston at Google, and found out how sheltered people can be.
I don't want to be overly dramatic, but this has genuinely lowered my view of HN as a whole, and I'll think twice about reading the comments here from now on.
If I were to show this to any well-adjusted person I know, they'd probably think less of me for even being in the same community and profession as the person who wrote that comment.
I also feel incredibly heartless for adding my own "be careful" message to this person's eager response to someone's plea for help, but there it is.
>> I was able to social engineer myself into being a 'visitor' at a hospital for the past week
> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?
This is an unfortunate reality in Canada, especially in places where it gets cold enough to freeze to death during the winter (which most of Alberta would qualify for). Homeless shelters are full, the wait lists for social support, mental health support, and addiction support are long*, and hospitals are warm, publicly owned, and honestly so long as you're not making a nuisance of yourself they're probably not the worst place to hang out. There's usually public cafeterias and lots of seating throughout. Sleeping there would probably be a problem.
> bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment
This is another one of the oddities of the Canadian healthcare system. There's a few different categories of mental health support:
- Social services is free but often there isn't a whole lot they can help with. Employment Insurance (EI) has a pretty heavy paperwork burden and also requires you to have been employed recently and only lasts for a limited amount of time. Long-term disability has a lot of strings attached. If you do manage to find gainful income they take away your financial support 1:1; a woman I know went blind due to cancer when she was a teenager and was living in an apartment provided by social housing. She started making beaded jewelry and selling it at the farmer's market. Over a period of a year she managed to save up $500 to buy herself an iPad, which apparently has excellent accessibility features for blind users. When her social worker came by and saw it she threatened to deduct $500 off of the next disability cheque.
- There are psychiatrists available, for free, through the public healthcare system. They're by referral only and a referral must come from a GP. 20% of Canadians do not currently have a family doctor (~6M people) so their only access to psychiatric help is to convince a doctor at a walk-in clinic to make a referral. In most cases it's going to be months before you hear back. There are occasionally walk-in clinics that do have on-site psychiatrists but it's exceptionally rare.
- Psychologists and therapists are not covered by the public health system. Some do offer reduced rates for low-income patients but you're generally looking at somewhere in the $80-120/hr range. Like OP mentioned about astrology, there isn't a whole lot of quality control around this... you basically have to go interview them (and likely pay for the privilege) and make your own decision on whether or not you think they'll be someone you want to give more money to.
As an additional wrinkle, while healthcare is nominally free, prescription medication is not (although there was a big announcement around this yesterday, so that may be changing). Even if OP did manage to get an appointment with a psychiatrist and get an assessment and a prescription... how the heck are they going to pay for it? There are generally programs in place to provide medication discounts for low-income people but... again, paperwork burden and long turn-around times.
The brutal question that comes up on a pretty regular basis is: what do we do about people like OP? While we, in theory, have more humanity than just letting them freeze to death in the streets, we also do a piss-poor job at helping them get out of the situation they're in.
* Basically the only way to get seen by someone reasonably quickly is to tell them you're suicidal, but that'll probably result in an involuntary hold for a while.
I agree with you, I wasn't able to provide the full story due to the HN character limit. The contract I signed when I took up work with them explicitly stated my public work will remain mine. If that wasn't in the contract I would have said no. As I put it, it might not be a great look. Thanks for bringing that up
> If I heard this while I was interviewing a candidate, I would wonder whether they lacked awareness of the need to follow established processes.
I agree, there probably is an established process I should have spent time looking into rather than raising the issue directly with the staff who work at the place/with the system itself. Like I said, I was a bit frustrated but it's definitely possible I could have brought that up in a more productive way
> So there's at least one occasion when the person had a break from reality, leading to them being kicked out of a house. I know it's important to avoid stigmatizing those with mental illness, but the person has indicated that they had a bad experience with treatment and are not currently in treatment, so it would not be unreasonable to expect that this psychosis could occur again.
That was my first and so far only episode of psychosis, from my point of view it wasn't so much a bad experience with treatment. But a bad experience by nearly ending up homeless after due to my family kicking me out after I stabilized in the hospital/received/participated in treatment for my first ever episode of psychosis.
> Not exactly legal or ethical. Obviously, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but would you want to hire someone who uses social engineering to deceive people?
I lied about being a visitor compared to the very real alternative of freezing to death, shoot me lol
> Again, they're facing dire circumstances, which might mitigate their culpability, but they're also being quite open about being willing to steal, which is not exactly a desirable trait for most employers.
I somewhat agree, I'm not proud of stealing food and I have already went to a foodbank/received $27 to buy some food but that unfortunately only lasted a few days and I started getting hungry again/haven't been able to find more support for food since. Although maybe I should just try harder. Either way, thanks for bringing up that broadcasting that is a red flag, that is something I should be a bit more wary of, I've made a mental note of that but I doubt I'll need it once I get back on my feet
I would give kudos for honesty
* Completely new ycombinator account created 3 hours ago, no past history.
* Anonymised email service.
* Pseudonym.
None of that is suspicious on its own necessarily but it is part of a pattern.
> there's an undercurrent of "the world is out to get me personally" to it. Everything bad happens to him, he's not responsible for anything that may have put him in his situation.
I'm 100% responsible for choosing to leave a good company to pick up a contract with a company working on something similiar to my FOSS project, a contract that explicitly stated any and all public work I have will remain mine, not to mention the fact my project is AGPL licensed.
> Glosses over why he chose a psychologist who apparently is also an astrologist as well.
I didn't choose my psychologist, they came highly recommended to me by a psychitriast I was seeing who I've had to since stop seeing due to the fact his case load was too much and he moved to a different province. I didn't actually know she was an astrologist until she brought that up, that's when I started paying attention/learning about red flags to watch out for.
> "No" was an option. And he was hired for his work on an open source project. And they wanted to pay him to work on it and sell a product or service around it. And? Why was that so intolerable to him?
I find it amusing you bring up "framing", that's what you are doing. I wasn't hired to work on my open source project, the contract I signed explicitly stated my public work will remain mine, although the reality turned out different :)
> And apparently he left his previous job in such a way they wouldn't have him back.
I did yes, I wasn't working with them for very long and they were quite pissed I left so soon. I'll own that mistake
> exaggerates his own skills. Like the claim he "social engineered" his way into being a visitor at a hospital. Yeah. That's just straight up lying. You go sit in a visitor's area and say you're visiting. It's not difficult or challenging. Most people don't do it because there's no need to.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20engineer...
> management of human beings in accordance with their place and function in society : applied social science
You're correct, it's cold and I don't want to freeze so I lied and claimed to be a visitor. Perhaps I misunderstand this definition found at this dictionary I linked, would you be so kind as to explain it like I'm 5?
> This dude needs to make life traumatic because that's the only thing he knows. It's the only thing he's comfortable with. Everything has to be a confrontation, a challenge, adversarial, because for the first 8 years of his life, that was his life. He thinks that's normal.
I would much rather life not be traumatic, I try my best to be kind to people but regardless I make mistakes sometimes, like all humans do. I'm curious as to what I said that indicates my circumstances are me trying to make my life more traumatic than it already is. Please do explain, I'd love to learn about/hear more about that perspective :)
> You could take him in. Give him a roof, three hots, and a cot. And yeah, for the first few weeks
That's not what I'm requesting, could you please quote what I said that indicates that? Perhaps I need to work on my communication more :) I kind of was more or less just looking for people I could talk to who would be kind/understanding. Someone reached out saying they would be willing to pay for a hotel for me for a couple nights but I replied that I wouldn't really feel comfortable with that coming from a stranger but also that I wouldn...
Where did I claim I was "forced" to see them? I was seeking help/support with my mental health so I asked a psychiatrist I trusted for advice. What would you recommend doing for someone in a position like mine? You throw a whole lot of accusations around but seem to offer very little practical advice lol
> left as soon as he learned they were an astrologist rather than giving them a chance.
I also don't think I claimed this but feel free to quote where I perhaps miscommunicated this. I actually kept seeing them probably far longer than I should have because I grew attached to them/learned to trust them depsite them very likely not being a great choice for me and for improving my mental health.
> not gaining access to anything anyone really cares about
No shit sherlock, but if you don't lie about being a visitor you'll get kicked out right away
This clearly isn't going to be a productive conversation and you've made it obvious you have no knowledge or interest in offering any sort of practical advice for someone experiencing hardship, however you're very good at being demeaning, insulting, and rude so I guess this will be my last reply to you. Good luck with your life, and once again, I really do hope you don't experience much hardship in life and if you do, hopefully someone offers you some practical advice/kindness rather than being shitty and demeaning towards you
#1 reason for becoming homeless is not asking for help when you need to.
I can see how this conclusion would be appealing from that perspective but I’d encourage anyone with this line of thinking, to think twice before posting something to cause doubt and potentially causing someone else to receive less help/attention that they would have otherwise received.
Even if you think it’s plausible for someone to lie about something like a few years of open source contribution (which is very easy to verify for anyone who reaches out for them to help) please contemplate about the possibility of harm that this kind of comment might cause (a fellow human being suffering longer) vs the help you think you are providing by just casting doubt and uncertainty (potentially preventing someone more fortunate to send some money to someone else that didn’t actually need it?! Or they might be offered a job they might not have been offered otherwise?!).
O.P. I’m really sorry for what you’re going through, and I admire your courage and honesty. I hope life becomes more stable very soon!
If you haven't already you need to reach out to literally everyone you know. Old colleagues might be able to get you some work. Friends and family might be willing to give you somewhere to stay for a bit.
You're clearly a smart guy. You'll work this out. Just hold in there.
Sorry to hear about your situation.
If you are in Alberta the Bannf Centre will give you board, cheap food and pay for work (cleaning rooms, preparing food, etc).
I know this is not ideal, but being safe and warm is greater than being in the elements in the winter.
So I will say that my information is about 15 years old here... But I hope it helps...
It's better than starving to death, freezing to death, or being destitute the rest of your life, but subjectively, and objectively based on the comments, you'll find a way through, those aren't even close to likely outcomes.
I don't know how to say this in a convincing way, but, you only have one chance to either affirm your values or discard them. Sort of a "better to fight standing than die on your knees", except, that perpetuates the strawman that abuse and exploitation is somehow more desirable than working through a rough patch for a year to get out of an intolerable situation.
Sometimes a paycheck can break you day-to-day harder than not having a paycheck.
It's also a false dichotomy and I'd wager things aren't going to get better when they go to ask for their job back, even if they got it back.
I would give my work on the spot if it helped me to survive and possibly get back on tracks.
I don't know if you have fought like this, living in despair in the name of coding principles. If yes, good for you.
If not then this is the kind of comment that reminds me of our French "gauche caviar", the people with position and money who discuss about how to fight for your rights before going golfing (https://youtu.be/L1N3WXZ_1LM is the canonical comedy sketch for these people).
0. Find someplace warmer and milder. CA coast between Los Angeles and San Diego.
1. Waterproof dry bags for electronics with desiccants. Beware taking cold electronics into warm rooms because that equals condensation, shorts, and/or corrosion.
2. Live in a vehicle, preferably a small RV and somewhere not adverse to vehicle dwelling.
3. Focus on what clients want specifically, not all possible technologies. Sign contracts charging by the project milestone rather than an hourly rate. Deliver without delay. Get an LLC (corporation) because it's cheap and allows large clients to pay you. Don't work for peanuts. $3k/week as an example.
I agree with the contracting advice, but without a decent network of contacts, a track history and reputation, anyone will find it tough to get contract/freelance work. Especially now with so many Americans laid off from tech jobs trying to do the same thing.
There's nothing about an LLC that make it easier for large clients to pay you. Freelancers can work as sole proprietors and get a business bank account. I've freelanced for a long time and never had a problem getting paid, or had to form an LLC or corporation to look more real or get paid. The big problem with getting paid in this case is not having an American Social Security Number for tax reporting (1099). An LLC will allow hiding that problem for a while, but then you can add tax evasion or fraud to the immigration violations.
> I've been looking for a job/contract for 6+ months but last week I was evicted
Suggests your real problem is not finding a job but rather a lack of connection with reality.
> + she kicked me out after my episode of psychosis years ago.
I have a close family member with mental health issues. Your situation is going to make you more exposed for a psychosis episode. I'd focus on getting somewhere to sleep at any cost (any CC to max out?) as soon as possible to avoid getting an episode while you are homeless.
Clearly, I appreciate the concern but I can handle my mental health more or less just fine on my own thank you very much. I spoke to a psychiatrist on the phone days ago before I was evicted due to my own concerns and doubts in regards to my mental health/"conditions". They said they think I'm fine and they apologized for the "welfare" check I went through. Stigmatizing an individual as lacking a connection to reality based on their honesty with their past history/struggles with psychosis doesn't exactly seem very fair, does it? And let's say perhaps you are correct, just as a hypothetical, I am indeed in the throes of a psychotic episode! Oh no, what ever should someone in a position like me do?! I tried going to a 24/7 medical centre when I first got evicted and I claimed I was suicidal and very tempted to jump off a bridge but that was brushed aside and not taken seriously, I so desperately wanted to get "help" from the "healthcare/helping systems" we have in place. I was told I'd be fine and that I seem very intelligent! That's the help you get with our systems... I highly encourage you to do more research in regards to what going through a condition like psychosis is actually like for an individual/the social stigma around such a condition/the implications of such stigma/the long-term effects of anti-psychotic medications, the actual "support" most medical staff commonly provide to someone in a position like that, the number of peer reviewed studies with a sample size that isn't piss poor/etc in regards to conditions like that, the relationship between trauma/PTSD and psychosis, and how shitty of a job our systems are doing at implementing/practicing a bio-psycho-social model of care. I've had to learn *A LOT* on my own to understand what the hell is going on with me, almost no one has provided me with any real and or practical resources. A few days ago my previous "therapist" called a "welfare" check on me after I sent them an email expressing major frustration in regards to the "therapy" I have received over the past 6 years. I swore and said some unkind things towards them because I really am more or less near my breaking point and while none of this is her "fault", I would be far better off if they recognized the limitations of their training and referred me to someone/something who may have been able to provide support/resources to me that would _actually_ help someone in a situation like mine.
> I have a close family member with mental health issues. Your situation is going to make you more exposed for a psychosis episode. I'd focus on getting somewhere to sleep at any cost (any CC to max out?) as soon as possible to avoid getting an episode while you are homeless.
I agree! The longer I go without sleep, the more stress I go through, the more adversity I face, etc -> the more likely that will be to trigger another possible psychotic episode, I've managed to catch about 2 hours of sleep last night/this morning due to staying in a different section of a hospital/waiting room. Before that I was able to get a consistent 6-8 hours of sleep every night in the hospital until a guard "kindly" recommended I spend more time "visiting" and less time "lounging", today (last night?) I was recently woken up by a different security guard while I was catching some sleep in a different section of the hospital lobby (they were much kinder than the last one, credit where credit is due) anyways this nice security guard told me to move to a different waiting room but they also interrupted the little bit of rest/sleep I was trying to get while staying warm! Indeed, what a wonderfully caring "heathcare" system it is we have! Sorry for the tad bit of anger I'm expressing here but I've already maxed out my CC, I&...
It is really great!
Just don't burden your hosts with the full story :) If you try out this avenue, be positive and talk about all the good things in your life.
And yeah haha, I know how to be positive but thank you for the reminder. part of the reason I'm under a random name is because I needed a place to vent that is more or less not linked to who I am. I do understand how important appearances can be/how what you say can impact how you're perceived.
The taxation should cover that in a social system.