Ask HN: losing faith in the startup where I'm employee #1
Now a year later, things are way more gloom. We haven't raised any money, as of today we have effectively 0 active users, and our total revenue over the past year has been ~$100.
Out of 3 founders, none is technical (the CTO is a very, very well connected industry veteran though), and they are all very unfocused and out of touch with certain realities (for example, they filed a patent for a silly tech idea right after incorporation and keep trying to implement that technology in products although it doesn't really solve anything).
During meetings, I always feel like a killjoy by attempting to be realistic and focused and reserved about the brand new idea they come up with every other week and that I need to get started on right when the meeting ends.
I don't feel like it'll get better, and although it was a great opportunity I think it's time for me to move on to brighter horizons.
The main problem is that I've grown to really like the founders on a personal level, they are really well connected so I wouldn't want them to tarnish my reputation as a young engineer completely new to the valley/startup world, and if I leave, the company will probably die off as I'm the only one writing code and making products exist (they'd probably end up paying contractors/freelancers as they can't afford to be competitive on salary or benefits).
I think these last few points might be the result of my inexperience with startups and that I dug myself into that hole— but any insight or advice would be very, very much appreciated.<p>Thanks!
108 comments
[ 6.1 ms ] story [ 202 ms ] threadFind what is right for you, then leave to do that. Tell the founders how much you like and respect them as you go. You don't need to carry the weight of the company on your shoulders. Your departure may even help them move on to something better.
If you believe in your main idea, you should start with making minimum viable product and see if your idea actually works. Funding is optional, unless your website requires something special that needs money.
It is not my job to prop up someone else's failing business model.
It's one thing to take a lower salary in exchange for equity because you really believe there's a shot at making a return. And it's OK to take a lower salary to work on really interesting problems. But you aren't a co-founder, you're an employee. You have no professional obligations beyond your 2 weeks' notice. In this world, you've gotta fight for your wealth, health, and goals, because nobody else will do it for you.
Good luck!
Three non-tech founders, after 1yr no funding, patenting in early stage ... you are wasting time.
Don't worry about the personal relationship. Just stay polite, try to reason your leave, why you have to move on and that you stay available for smaller Q&A. They will try to convince you to stay and to sell the big dream (that's their job) and maybe subtly pressure you by not liking you anymore. But that would be another reason to move on.
Or: talk to those of the three you really like and (if your want to keep on working with them) define new rules: find a new idea to pursue, demand equal equity and setup a new company/legal entity with the desired ones.
They may be very likeable and connected but they are not performing at their job. They need to be driving growth by bringing in revenue, leads, funding, etc. as well as strengthening the business by reducing vulnerabilities (like having only 1 person that knows the technicalities of the product). If they are screwed after you leave that is more their fault than it is yours - that is a lack of management foresight.
Just be straightforward but nice with them - you won't be burning any bridges.
I tire from that very thing, very quickly. I've worked with too many "idea" guys that always want to see 10 ideas started, vs. 1 completed and executed really well. Maybe they're trying to find that 1 great idea by trying out many, but a lot of times I see startups start one thing without finishing another. In the end, after XYZ time frame, the company really doesn't have 1 solid feature to show for it, only multiple half ass ones.
What's worse, at least from what I've experienced, is that a lot of those ideas or features are secondary, or tertiary, with regard to what the core product should really support.
>I wouldn't want them to tarnish my reputation as a young engineer completely new to the valley/startup world
You can join a more established "startup", with say, 100 or so employees, and build a track record there.
As for a "reason for leaving", you can simply tell them that you just can't make ends meet anymore. Money is almost always a credible motive, and is actually more amicable than say, "your product sucks and this ship is sinking, so I'm heading to a sexier pasture".
By the way, is it just me, or is the description of the CTO seem more appropriate for a BizDev Officer rather than a Technology Officer? I'd be deeply skeptical of a founding CTO who isn't involved in the product at all at such an early stage.
Communicate with them, tell them why you think things aren't working, and propose ways the startup can make improvements.
If you encounter too much inertia and you know things aren't going to get better, find yourself something better to do.
You may want to try to bring some common sense in as a last try, but a year and no users or revenue is a major warning.
Out of 4 people only one can code...not a good thing, at all.
So you are probably not losing a lot with going away, even if it's quite likely that they won't be happy with you breaking up with them.
That said, don't think too bad about them, because they are probably just inexperienced and don't know it better. And also don't think too high of yourself. If you are the only coder in an IT based start-up it doesn't matter who you are on paper. You have one of the most powerful positions. If you can't get it going it's also your fault and probably even more then it's their's, because you actually have the basic skill set to create software.
Another tip I want to give you on your way: Ask for a position as valuable as your leverage in the company. If you are the only coder in a software- or web-company you should definetely become a co-founder with a decent share of stock and decision making capabilities, maybe also CTO (C<x>O often is more of a management job the moment you get more employees, so it's not required that an engineer does that. Someone with a management or business background might be better suited, even if the <x> is a T).
Move on as fast as you can. Is not that you can't partner with some idea guy but three of them is too unbalanced. Doing anything takes an enormous amount of work, you can't change the idea every week(well, yes you can if you can reuse what you had already done, or if changing means less work or satisfying your customers much better, but usually you should not).
Being connected is nothing today, everybody is "connected" these days with facebook and twitter if you can't get users your product is not great. I believe that by connected you mean that they spend all time in parties "networking" while you code and they tell you how useful it is (it is not if you don't have users, they are not so well "connected").
I like (and love) a lot of people in the personal level, but some of them I will never do business with(being great at parties in some cases means that they are not serious enough for real work).
You don't need to burn bridges, but you need to be a grown up man, take decisions(decide means cutting options) and stand by it. You should be as clear as possible about the real reasons you leave and let them the opportunity to do something about it, if the reasons does not change then leave.
You guys need a serious evaluation of the business and make a decision to fix things or shut it down. A year suggests you have missed the obvious questions about your customers.
If you are the only one with these thoughts may be time to move on.
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20 Looking at his disciples, he said:
“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. 21 Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh. 22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
23 “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets.
24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. 25 Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. 26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.
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Jesus is divine in the same way I am divine, but maybe He's special cause He's first.
"You will do this and more because I go before you..."
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God says... C:\Text\PILGRIM.TXT
maimed there, and could not, to their dying day, be their own men again.
{267} Then I saw in my dream, that a little off the road, over against the silver mine, stood Demas (gentlemanlike) to call to passengers to come and see; who said to Christian and his fellow, Ho! turn aside hither, and I will show you a thing.
CHR. What thing so deserving as to turn us out of the way to see it?
DEMAS. Here is a silver mine, and some digging in it for treasure. If you will come, with a little pains you
This is part of the learning curve we all go through and it seems you have learnt some important lessons already. I have a lot of senior friends that I didn't get along so well with professionally (because of our different styles of working) but on the personal level we still meet for lunch although we don't even work at the same company any longer.
It's ok... if I were you I'd go find another job and then just tell these guys that an excellent opportunity has come by. Perhaps give them a 4 week notice instead of the regular 2 weeks so they can find someone. I don't think you owe them much more than that.
You'll be able to save the relationships if you remain professional and polite and give them adequate notice.
It wont be 2012 forever. Demand for people with your skills is insane right now - don't waste your time. Get moving.
And next time you agree to be a technical co-founder (which is what you are here), be sure you team up with people who give you an equal say in the decision making process - not people who view you as an order taker.
Well put.
It's pretty clear that you're carrying the whole team on your back. That's just a terrible situation to be in, and one I would never accept for myself. A team of cofounders that doesn't face reality is pretty much as bad as it gets in terms of startups. Not only are you the sole voice of reason, you're also the only person doing real work and adding actual value to the company. That may not be 100% true, but I bet it's true to a first or second order approximation.
The truth of the matter (and the truth of life) is, you need to look out for your best interests. There is no shame in doing this. It's the right thing to do. No one else, except maybe your parents, will ever care about your welfare and success. And frankly, that responsibility shouldn't fall on anybody else but you. Everyone else on this team is looking out for their own interests, why aren't you looking out for yours? Let me say out loud what you've been thinking: this is a train to nowhere. You owe it to yourself to find better opportunities. Your time on this planet is incredibly precious, don't waste it serving others for a reality you don't believe in.
It seems that you know deep in your heart what's best for you, but you're afraid to do it because you're worried about damaging these relationships. As other commenters have pointed out, there are ways to bow out gracefully. Are these cofounders really the type of people who would do malice to you for leaving for legitimate reasons? If so, that reflects much more poorly on them than it does on you.
You sound like a nice guy, which is awesome. I've been a nice guy my entire life, but I've learned the valuable lesson of how to say no (tactfully, of course, but always with confidence and strength). I hope you can come around to doing the same, because it will only benefit your life in all ways.