The path to TikTok not existing in the US is basically nonexistent
It’s court challenges after court challenges, and then an asset sale, and then…. The same service until it’s new stewards mess it up with changes years later.
It only goes away if the asset sale doesn’t occur.
And either way it’s just a protectionist bill towards US enterprises. Or meeting parity with China who didn’t let US social media enterprises operate in China, not even this ignorance weaponized version of TikTok.
Again, US social media enterprise refused to operate in China because they were unable to comply with existing local laws.
China did not pass a law and force a US company out retroactively. Tiktok complies with all existing US laws, including the law that requires US companies to provide data to the government when there is a warrant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
a) which existing local laws were they unable to comply with, the answer dilutes your point. The one where they give up 50% ownership? The one where no warrants are required for data sharing and the concept of such a hurdle is a complete joke? some other local law?
b) doesn't explain why TikTok for the rest of the world is also not the same product run in China
If the US calls itself a democracy then the people deserve more of an explanation than “national security” if they’re going to ban such a popular app. That’s the kind of thing we would expect China to do.
I’m pretty uncomfortable with the current clown car of FISA courts, secret Congressional hearings, secret bills, secret warrants, no-knock warrants, secret no fly lists, data brokers selling to cops, data brokers selling to the military, not to mention the evolution of police into a paramilitary group enabling things like weaponized SWATing for under $100. For a lot of these things, if you didn’t know we were talking about America, you would think of they only happened in totalitarian states.
The US calls itself a republic. We elect representatives who are empowered to make decisions like this one for us.
> I’m pretty uncomfortable with the current clown car of FISA courts, secret Congressional hearings, secret bills, secret warrants, no-knock warrants, secret no fly lists, data brokers selling to cops, data brokers selling to the military, not to mention the evolution of police into a paramilitary group enabling things like weaponized SWATing for under $100. For a lot of these things, if you didn’t know we were talking about America, you would think of they only happened in totalitarian states.
I agree wholeheartedly, but I don’t see how this is related to forcing the sale of TikTok.
> The US calls itself a republic. We elect representatives who are empowered to make decisions like this one for us.
In that case, why bother publishing the text of bills online for people to read before they’re laws? Why preserve Congressional debate in the Library of Congress? Why make Congressional debate public at all?
If we let them, the government will classify everything as “national security”. Today, it’s domestic surveillance programs (some of which were illegal). Tomorrow, it’s economic numbers or police statistics.
the people deserve more of an explanation than “national security” if they’re going to ban such a popular app
I agree that as much as possible of the TikTok briefings should be declassified, and am extremely skeptical of giving governments additional powers, but "national security" really is a sufficient justification in this case. There is no way we should allow a hostile foreign government access to such a massive amount of data on Americans or the ability to easily spread their propaganda.
I want to use the app, and anyone who thinks that I shouldn’t be able to for tenuous ”national security” reasons — especially when native social media companies are facilitating the spread of far more radical propaganda — can sod right off.
You should be able to use the app. The Chinese Communist Party should not be able to control the app's content and access all the data that it generates.
To be honest, I was going to poop on you referring to HN as social media, but after looking at a lot of websites’ definitions of the term you’re right. It looks like pretty much anything where people post links or discuss things could be considered social media, which goes far beyond what I thought it was.
It really means nothing, websites with guest books count. I think people confuse it with "social network" which also has a weird vague definition but it's a little tighter.
Tiktok cannot be sold as the CCP bans any export of algorithms that are trained on personal preferences etc, so the only option for Tiktok is pulling out of the US market. The sneaky shift from "ban" to selling ownership is still a ban
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[ 1013 ms ] story [ 1582 ms ] threadThe path to TikTok not existing in the US is basically nonexistent
It’s court challenges after court challenges, and then an asset sale, and then…. The same service until it’s new stewards mess it up with changes years later.
It only goes away if the asset sale doesn’t occur.
And either way it’s just a protectionist bill towards US enterprises. Or meeting parity with China who didn’t let US social media enterprises operate in China, not even this ignorance weaponized version of TikTok.
Blocking a sale feels different from forcing a sale, even if the outcome in either case is the search for a new buyer.
China did not pass a law and force a US company out retroactively. Tiktok complies with all existing US laws, including the law that requires US companies to provide data to the government when there is a warrant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act
b) doesn't explain why TikTok for the rest of the world is also not the same product run in China
I’m pretty uncomfortable with the current clown car of FISA courts, secret Congressional hearings, secret bills, secret warrants, no-knock warrants, secret no fly lists, data brokers selling to cops, data brokers selling to the military, not to mention the evolution of police into a paramilitary group enabling things like weaponized SWATing for under $100. For a lot of these things, if you didn’t know we were talking about America, you would think of they only happened in totalitarian states.
> I’m pretty uncomfortable with the current clown car of FISA courts, secret Congressional hearings, secret bills, secret warrants, no-knock warrants, secret no fly lists, data brokers selling to cops, data brokers selling to the military, not to mention the evolution of police into a paramilitary group enabling things like weaponized SWATing for under $100. For a lot of these things, if you didn’t know we were talking about America, you would think of they only happened in totalitarian states.
I agree wholeheartedly, but I don’t see how this is related to forcing the sale of TikTok.
In that case, why bother publishing the text of bills online for people to read before they’re laws? Why preserve Congressional debate in the Library of Congress? Why make Congressional debate public at all?
If we let them, the government will classify everything as “national security”. Today, it’s domestic surveillance programs (some of which were illegal). Tomorrow, it’s economic numbers or police statistics.
I agree that as much as possible of the TikTok briefings should be declassified, and am extremely skeptical of giving governments additional powers, but "national security" really is a sufficient justification in this case. There is no way we should allow a hostile foreign government access to such a massive amount of data on Americans or the ability to easily spread their propaganda.