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Ask HN: How much do you *actually* work?

15 points by ThalesX ↗ HN
NH, I'm starting to look for a new role again after the startup I worked for ran out of runway. I have three paths ahead of me, as far as I can tell:

1 - Do my own startup, which would involve probably 5 - 7 years of dedication, which has its benefits and downsides;

2 - Join another startup, which would mean giving away my time and energy again for someone else;

3 - Join a cushy corporate job.

I'm trying to understand what the job market looks like. I have to disclaim that I am in Central-Eastern Europe, because of differences in the job market. But I have a lot of close friends (working cushy corporate jobs) in tech and they mostly mock me for the effort I put into work.

My project management friends admit to working maybe 1 - 2 hours per day. My developer friends admit to working perhaps 16 hours per week but mostly sleeping around and not doing all that much. My DevOps friends seem like royalty, they maybe get some 5 hours per week at a monthly salary comparable to the other two roles.

My best friend is a DevOps that spends most of his time up in the mountains, hiking, or if not, cycling and doing arts & crafts and getting close to Sillicon Valley levels of income working from a low income country for literally minutes / week of work most weeks. This is almost a meme amongst us that the guy has worked maybe a month in total for the past couple of years.

For the last ... 10 years, I've been CTO for TechStars companies, I've been founding engineer for YCombinator companies, I've deployed my own products and it feels like working 30 / 24 hours.

I'm curious how much you guys feel like you're working, or how much you're actually working and for what kind of benefits because I just can't justify to myself working like this when so many people feel like they're living on Universal Basic Income getting lost in large corporations.

18 comments

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zer00eyz
Do number 3.

Build number 1.

Take the money take the 20 hours of real work.

Build yourself a number 1. It doesn't have to be GOOGLE sized. If you can clear 100k a year on that and invest it that's huge. If you can do 200 or 300 that's even bigger. What can you build that you can sell to 1000 people for 10 bucks a month.

ThalesX
When I used to do 3, I found myself filling the time by actually being involved in the business. Talking to managers, stakeholders, trying to actually improve auxiliary concerns. Is this just not how it's done anymore?
zer00eyz
You wanted a career... am I right? You got to CTO.

You're doing number 3 as a job. Go in, do what your asked, go do your own thing. You have a network you dont need to impress your new co workers. It's just a check and your passion lies elsewhere.

toomuchtodo
Are you playing wealth games or status games? Wealth is freedom, CTO role is still a job.

What is your end goal? Work backwards from that to how you spend your time (enterprise, startup, solo, etc). Maybe it's meaningful work. Maybe it's just a check, because you work to live, not live to work. May you find a path that enables the outcome desired.

ThalesX
> Are you playing wealth games or status games? Wealth is freedom, CTO role is still a job.

I would ideally like to not be accountable to anyone under, or over me. Just hack away at my hobby projects like Thanos did before he got his head cut.

> What is your end goal? Work backwards from that to how you spend your time (enterprise, startup, solo, etc). Maybe it's meaningful work. Maybe it's just a check, because you work to live, not live to work. May you find a path that enables the outcome desired.

Thanks for the advice! Perhaps I should spend a bit more time putting things into perspective. But I was just curious to get some answers on how much time people actually work. If I can get 50% of the money I'd get running a company, with 2hrs of work per week. I'd probably take that. I'm just not sure how common it is.

giantg2
"When I used to do 3, I found myself filling the time by actually being involved in the business. Talking to managers, stakeholders, trying to actually improve auxiliary concerns. Is this just not how it's done anymore?"

Who actually listens to the devs? I've literally been yelled at for pointing out flaws pertaining to basic business acumen - "Just build it how I say!". Then we're rewriting it 3 weeks later because I was right.

ThalesX
> Who actually listens to the devs?

In my experience it depends on your political skills. I could always find someone in the company to help me come up with a plan of attack for a problem we were all facing. I always suggest to juniors to go to higher ups with an attitude of 'how can I help you solve the problems you currently have' instead of 'here are my problems'. YMMV.

giantg2
In my case politics weren't really a solution. You have an incompetent person who wants it done their way. The only person they'll listen to is the person above them. Go above them and you're branded a troublemaker. It's a dysfunctional organization.
woliveirajr
Sometimes you think you're not "working" but you are thinking about your work. So you "work" 2h/day by really typing and coding and so on, but you think about some problem another 2 or 3h/day. So you have to consider that, too.
ThalesX
In my decade+ experience of work, on executive as well as producer levels, I've found that most people that produce this argument are not very productive when it comes to delivering actual business value.

The situations I am aware of are very far away from needing to spend 100% or 200% of their actual working hours in thought for the implementation and / or strategizing.

I haven't worked in deep tech, or cutting edge, so it might be attributed to this.

jjkosne
Real work as mid level executive (software + hardware development department) like 50-60h / week

It's very easy to filter out employees who think they get around with working less then 40h by judging their deliverables

Lionga
I worked maybe 20h hours when I was an employee and always got highest praises and promotions, happily most "managers" cared about what I deliver but less about buts in seat. You are probably one of the mid level executive (is this seen as a swear word by now?) that has an negativ net impact on any team with actually skilled people.

Now making triple or more than that as freelancer where I can actually charge for skill.

duggable
Curious where you work, so I can avoid it. I get my work done in <40 and while I’m not the world’s best engineer, my bosses have always been happy with my work and the value I’ve provided.
nicbou
A lot more than I think, but not a lot.

My commit graph on GitHub is a reminder that I actually work almost every day and rarely really fully go on vacation. I work at night, on the weekends, when I travel, on the plane... I'm not very good at fully switching off.

On the other hand, I start and end the day when it feels right - roughly 10AM to 3PM - and mold my work around my personal schedule and the weather. My vacation responder has been on for 2.5 months. Nothing is ever urgent, and I'm always free to pursue impulses.

dakiol
Depends a lot on the company/manager you get. I general, I try to work at most 5h/day (including meetings).
gardenhedge
I never understand when people say they work small hours. I work the full work day every day. There's always something that needs to be done.
ThalesX
I'm in the same boat. And it's even more confusing to me when my 5 hours per week friend actually has daily stand-ups. When I talked to him about it, he says it's mostly just everyone in the team saying 'still working on X', even though they didn't even start or have been "working" on it for like 2 months. It boggles my mind.
nopmat
This would make an unsettling interview question.