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Ask HN: How did you do your 2023 tax returns?

8 points by neilv ↗ HN
Particular desktop software (and were you able to airgap it)?

Particular Web-based software?

Preparer or accountant (and do you think they leaked your data)?

35 comments

[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 80.8 ms ] thread
orionblastar
Turbo Tax Home and Business. Might be evil DRM and Windows and Mac only, but it is easy to use.
neilv
Do you know whether TurboTax desktop can still be airgapped?

For airgapping, I used to this:

1. Install TurboTax in a Windows VM/machine.

2. Connect the VM/machine to the Internet to get any TurboTax update and state DLC.

3. Permanently disconnect that VM/machine from the Internet.

4. Put my data into TurboTax on the airgapped machine, and generate PDF forms.

5. Sneakernet off the PDF forms and data files.

I'm wondering whether I can still do that, or TurboTax now insists upon phoning home after I start putting my data into it.

missedthecue
Aside from enjoying going through these motions as a hobby, (which is totally fine), is there actually any reason to do this? There are so many ways and attack vectors through which your credit and tax info can be stolen that it just doesn't seem worth the effort.

Imagine airgapping TurboTax to submit your return and then an IRS employee sells your data

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/29/irs-leak-charge-001...

neilv
Vestigial hobby. I used to do lots of privacy&security exercises, partly on-principle, and partly because it seemed like a civic responsibility as techie-citizen.

Pragmatically, I'd still rather not give that data more widely than I have to.

missedthecue
I see. I used turbotax this year and it didn't require an internet connection except for: installing the latest updates and the actual e-file obviously. All the calculations for credits, deductions, and maximizing your personal tax situation were done locally. What you're describing could probably work.
mindslight
The big difference is that the IRS employee selling your data is illegal. So sure, your info can still end up out there in less-legible circles, and some drive by randos can play around with it or perhaps if it's widespread enough your acquaintances could look you up, but the main advanced persistent threat - the surveillance industry - can't really use it. Whereas when you use surveillance based software, since we lack meaningful US privacy legislation, you're assenting to "terms" that allow the surveillance industry to use it for whatever attacks they can implement - eg real time price discrimination, insurance rates, surveillance based authentication, etc.
mindslight
Yes. I do similar, and it's still working this year.

I recently switched to using snapshots of a better-maintained Windows install with multiple softwares, instead of previously one or two barebones installed programs per VM.

orionblastar
The new version of Turbo Tax forces you to sign into the Intuit website account to activate the serial number before you can start to enter data.
linsomniac
FreeTaxUSA.com for the second year in a row, very happy with it. State taxes, if filed through them are $15, federal is $0.

The experience is basically exactly like TurboTax (which I had used for ~4-6 of the prior years), but it doesn't prop up the lobbying campaign to keep the federal government from just sending you a tax bill.

missedthecue
FreeTaxUSA is good except it does not accept any situation where another country might be involved. If you have foreign income, a foreign address, or anything like that, their software will not support it.

Still, a great option for most people but it's worth noting. As a dual citizen, I had to worship at the altar of TurboTax again this year. For anything in between a simple W-2 or hiring a CPA, they are unfortunately the best option, no way around it.

sircastor
I’m also a FreeTaxUSA user. This is my 2nd year with them and I’m pretty happy with it. Compared to KreditKarma, it’s an improvement (mostly because KKs “what is this” tended to be terse and unhelpful) and much better than TurboTax (which was plastered with ways to make you pay more)

I started into whatever the oss project is that gets promoted here every year, but it wasn’t clear that it was up to date.

wryoak
With great difficulty considering I’m outside the US long term and it turns out a lot of financial institutions’ security measures include “block all IPs from Asia”

But ultimately I used TaxSlayer, web based. I’m sure they leaked my data but all of this feels like public data to me anyway

LorenDB
I was going to use TurboTax, but bailed when they tried to make me pay them >$100. FreeTaxUSA happily let me file for free.

Next year I hope to use the IRS Direct File software if it's rolled out to all states.

matt_s
I would recommend FreeTaxUSA, it does cost like $15 to file with your state but honestly its as easy and fast as "turbo" options without shady upsells.

A couple years ago I did miss something and ended up owing more than I thought so if you have complicated financials with RSUs or stock sales, etc. you probably need something more sophisticated. It would probably be worthwhile to just hire an accountant to help out with that stuff if that's the case.

LorenDB
State return was free for me with FreeTaxUSA.
romanhn
Same accountant we've used for years. I don't understand the "leaked your data" question, care to elaborate?
sircastor
I tried to find an accountant, and they quoted me around $1100.

Is your accountant affordable?

kirubakaran
If you're in the expensive part of California like me (SF), you could try to find an accountant in the cheaper parts of California (Central Valley for example).
joegahona
I live in Colorado but still use the accountant in NYC I've had since 2003. It's typically around $400 -- I know it has gone up over the years, but I haven't really noticed or felt the increases.
romanhn
Around $800, Bay Area peninsula. The cost has been growing quite a bit every year.
theGeatZhopa
Yes I used a particular software and it wasn't a problem to air gap that. I don't need preparer or accountant. I fear they will leak my data - happened once, that I got the report back from some other random guy. It was nice reading. So, as long they don't have a master's degree in CS - no, thank you.
stop50
German:

I plan to use ELSTER.

simonblack
In-house software written in C to process monthly statements received from rental-agents, interfacing with a MySQL database to produce integrated spreadsheets which are then sent to a certified tax-agent accountant who is licensed to prepare the official electronic tax returns for the Taxation Department.

Why would they 'leak the data'? My accountant is a professional who I have dealt with since 1991. We've grown old together and trust each other.

Even if they did perchance 'leak the data', who'd care enough to bother to look at it?

brudgers
By hand with a pen. Go figure.
solardev
Did mine in about half an hour with Cash App Taxes (free) and ChatGPT for questions. I'm self-employed, but it was pretty straightforward. Got my refunds a couple weeks later.

Didn't want to use TurboTax because Intuit is an evil company that actively lobbies against streamlining our taxes. They're basically the reason we have to do this shitty process every year.

The convenience of saving my returns with the app far outweighs any concerns about leakage for me. Who the hell would want to look at my tax returns? If the IRS could just do my taxes for me, I wouldn't even bother to look at them, myself.

juneyi
Less popular opinion so definitely not for everyone (not addressing leaks or security, will leave that to others who are far wiser).

If you make $xx/hr in ur full-time and you have taxes beyond simply w2 and 2 or 3 banks for checking/credit/investments, doing taxes on your own through freetaxusa or turbotax may take up an entire afternoon or whole day (unless your one to be very organized like the top poster here, respect). At some point, its worth thinking about how many hours of your time does it stop becoming worth it to do your own and hire a cpa.

For me, once forms like donations, multiple w2s, property, landlord stuff, started adding up, it'd take an entire weekend. Thats 16 hrs of my life, i eventually took the leap and found a great cpa (after wasting $$ on overpriced ones) thru a friend referral and now spend $600 on what takes me less than 2 hours to consolidate and upload forms, and double check deductible expenses.

Whatd i do with all my extra time? Binged 3 body problem. Yes, i wasted it. But a better person would spend it with friends or family or reading or anything more productive than me. If this seems to fit your mold, its worth considering.

Again, not for everyone but good to think about as life progresses for you (or anyone else here).

toast0
I did taxes with a CPA twice, and given that I need to sign them, and that I take the fall for mistakes anyway, I needed to review them, especially when weird things happened and the CPAs couldn't explain why.

Collecting all the forms and stuff feels like more of the work than putting into the software, and you've can't delegate that anyway.

Maybe your form entries are harder than mine, but then I'm happy to say no to things because the paperwork burden is high. I have no desire to be a landlord, because in addition to the actual work of maintenance (or even worse, scheduling and supervising others doing maintenance), there's a paperwork burden. I'm even considering dropping my international stock fund to eliminate the paperwork burden of the foreign tax credit.

amerkhalid
I used to use CPA for years when I had decent freelancing clients. The CPA was great as I can email him any tax question anytime and he usually answered in details for free.

But as for saving time, I would not consider that a benefit. It still takes me hours to gather all the forms from various websites, take photos of other forms that were mailed, receipts, and other expense stuff. The benefit was that I had an expert available to make sure it was done right.

You will still need to proactively tell CPA about any changes in your life.

I stopped using my CPA when I missed a deduction for buying a new car. But later I asked him how do I know what are important tax related things to avoid missing any deductions and breaks. He started sending me a giant pdf to fill out. That was more work and less user-friendly than simply using TurboTax.

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muffinman26
By hand on paper.

I don't really see the point in worrying about data leaks. A CPA who leaked your data would have their reputation so completely destroyed I doubt it would be worth it. That's 5 years of expensive and high-energy education to throw down the drain. Plus, the IRS system is probably a poorly secured and very profitable target you can't do anything about.

The real problem is that software has bugs. If I'm going to have to go through the trouble of double-checking everything by hand anyway, it makes sense not to bother paying for software.

The useful piece of advice is how to learn to do this. Volunteering for the VITA program will give you a 2 day training on how to prepare taxes, in return for spending one day a week helping other people file their taxes for a few months. (Which is free spaced repetition and practice, anyway.)

runjake
FreeTaxUSA.com. I’ve been using them for several years now.
interbased
I used paid web-based software. After triple-checking everything and researching what each form and boxes mean, part of me wants to just do it myself next year. I assume the only concern would be updated tax laws and ensuring everything is done accurately, but it seems straightforward enough. If that takes too long, back to the paid software.