“…the cover of the pedal can slip off and lodge itself into a seam in the driver's side footwell, causing the pedal to remain pressed.
…
It’s worth also calling out that there doesn't appear to be any fasteners holding the pedal cover on, which means that the cover could be either friction-fit or held on with adhesive, possibly a product of cost savings.”
Go check your car, 50/50 it has a pedal that friction slips onto a metal arm, has been a common approach for a long time. Get this! They usually slip down!
In what? Im not supporting Telsa, just pointing out that pedal pads are rarely secured and in 1990 I had a runaway Audi stuck in cruise and with the pedal pad dislodged.
So no surprises here from a company that decides to "disrupt" over learn from the past.
I've experienced something similar with driving with flip-flops: the right one came off the foot and held the gas pedal floored.. Fortunately, the car wasn't nearly as quick as the Cybertruck is.
Why even care so much about how other people behave that you need to project your imagination? The Cybertruck has terrible QC, it has nothing to do with "techbros".
Because I'm genuinely wondering who would buy such a product with terrible QC. I doubt its the average consumer, yet clearly there was a niche of people this was marketed at. Who is this niche, and are they such in number that they can really make this product profitable?
In a weird way Musk’s nutso brand means the Cybertruck market is broader than just tech bros, it now also includes right wing reactionary bros who love the word “triggered” so much they’ll spend $80k to have an excuse to ask someone about it.
They only require a $100 deposit to get on the waitlist. Maybe I’m too much of a cynic but I’m skeptical anywhere near 2 million people would pay the full price if they were given the opportunity tomorrow.
You are definitely, correct. Especially given the massive shortcomings of the product. At the time of deposit, they advertised things like 500mile ranges. What has come out so far is a lackluster product.
I wonder how many people reserved near the announcement; lots of time for personal and global situations to have changed in the last five years.
They (Tesla) also look to have overpromised a bit. When Cybertruck was announced the base model was $39,900 and Elon suggested incentives could bring it even lower [0]. The three tiers were $40/50/70k, then it launched at $61/80/100k. To be fair, $40k in 2019 is around $48k today but that's still a 25% price increase.
Also, the high-end version was initially presented as having 500 mile range and 14000lb towing capacity, but now it's 320 mile range and 11000lb capacity. (edit: sibling comment mentioned this already)
Some idiot fat-fingered his deposit info and put it under one of my email addresses. I wonder if he is patiently waiting for his notification to buy that he's never going to get.
elon is still popular to the extent that he could sell just about anything to a few million people, this will probably never change. Once you hit a certain level of wealth and fame it self perpetuates
> Fortunately, the owner who experienced this issue was able to stop the acceleration by pressing the brake, which cuts power to the drive motors. However, as soon as the driver lifted their foot off of the brake, they reported that the truck immediately accelerated at full throttle. Kind of scary considering the 6,800-pound truck can sprint from 0-60 mph in under 2.7 seconds.
There's got to be a system/UX design thing somewhere to prevent this. It's extremely rare for someone to want to brake while keeping the foot fully pressed on the accelerator, and then want to accelerate fast moments later.
Not in an EV, anyway. In ICEV (especially turbocharged), the scenario is at least plausible, since that’s how you preload the drivetrain, spool the turbo, etc. It’s not strictly for track, either – my wife’s Mazda CX-9 has a turbo inline-4 that is gutless until boost (which comes on blessedly low, to be fair). If you need to jump out into traffic from a side street or the like, it’s much safer to perform the above so there isn’t a huge delay between driver input and meaningful response.
Is that how some launch control systems work in automobiles?
On the day-to-day I agree its probably not common but I also am not sure I would want a system that decides to not apply acceleration. Too many edge cases in the real world to try and determine what the user would want. Not bad UX but very bad hardware design/QC for having a pedal cover that is just attached with some clips
Sure, but again the issue is not the behavior of the input systems. It would be near impossible to design a system as you describe. Overriding human behavior is especially difficult, especially a decision of when to allow accelerator input or not.
Honestly I think other solutions would be possible if manufacturers cared enough.
Easy solution: pressure plate that measures which part of the pedal is getting pushed. Floor mats/loose pedals press on the bottom, humans press at the top.
Fancy but probably excellent when functioning solution: Use computer vision to detect foot position using camera(s) down there. Maybe IR lighting too.
There's more possible ways but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
"It's extremely rare for someone to want to brake while keeping the foot fully pressed on the accelerator, and then want to accelerate fast moments later. "
It can happen in near accident situations. First slow down, then after seeing the reaction of the other vehicle, accelerate in a different direction. I wouldn't want to confirm a touchscreen in that situation.
Not full accelerate, then switch to brake, then full accelerate again, I think that's fairly clearly within normal parameters of human control. What's being discussed here is full accelerate, then full brake while still fully engaging accelerator, holding both down even to the point of the car stopping, then releasing the brakes and fully accelerating again. I struggle to think of any situation where this, holding the two pedals down at once, doesn't represent either an error or such a total failure of human control that the car should stop anyway. If it was a manual you'd stall it, and that's a perfectly fine behaviour to emulate.
A lot of the news around this topic seems to suggest this is as a consequence of cost-savings - on what is already an incredibly expensive vehicle. I think most people buying these trucks are probably not worrying too much about cost in the first place...
On a related note, I test-drove a Model 3 last week and was absolutely astonished at how impractical the indicators (blinkers) being on the inside of the wheel were when dealing with roundabouts. Some Tesla-zealot-friends assured me you get used to the muscle memory of where they are, but there is a genuine reason we have had the knobs on the wheel for this - it's always in the same position. Doing a bit of googling after getting home, seems to suggest that them removing the indicator knobs seems to be _also_ as a result of cost-saving.
> seems to suggest that them removing the indicator knobs seems to be _also_ as a result of cost-saving
So they took the design choices of a Citroen CX? Only with the indicators in a variable position instead of next to the wheel for added difficulty of using it.
You can see an image of it here [1]. The indicators are on the left inside of the wheel. Now you can imagine depending on how far you are locking your wheel, how difficult it might be to find those buttons.
It's quite possibly the most stupid degradation of user experience I have ever seen in a car - and the sole reason I won't be buying a Model 3 when I'm next in the market for a new car.
I'd say anything more than 20 degrees and you have to let lose of your steering wheel to turn on the opposite indicator. Also doesn't work with the recommended method for thurning the steering wheel here as it's designed to keep you hands at the 10/2 (or 9/3) hour positions. Unless you lock 180 degrees and not forget the buttons are reversed.
“Well, you should indicate the direction you’re going before turning the wheel”
And with these little boardroom gems is how things get done and justified in any sizable venture. With that the expensive problem of designing, procuring and producing a fair complex and critical part stopped being a problem.
> this is as a consequence of cost-savings - on what is already an incredibly expensive vehicle. I think most people buying these trucks are probably not worrying too much about cost in the first place...
Those aren’t necessarily related. Tesla might look to maximize profits no matter what, so if they can save $20 on pedal fastening they won’t pass that onto the customer, they’ll just pocket the difference.
I think the way it works is actually almost the opposite of what you're saying. The problem is that there's an acceptable price point for a truck like this - say the top spec goes for $100k. What Tesla has done is they've made a bunch of really bad structural decision which means the fundamental cost of building the truck is high. For example the expensive Aluminium and the difficulties working with it. The result is that to get the build cost of the vehicle low enough to make a profit they have to do extreme cost saving everywhere else. So you end up with this massive mismatch where you have this premium material choice in one area that costs so much that they've had to choose to go super aggressive on cost saving practically everywhere else.
The stupidity of the accessory controls was a huge turnoff for me.
Sure, I might get use to them, but I also drive other, normal cars. I don’t want to have to think about my Teslas blinkers being different than literally everything else.
I bet that most of these design decisions were made by the same Chinese manufacturers that design the cheap stuff we buy on eBay.
And when China inevitably starts producing a cheaper tesla alternative they will go looking for a spy like they were not the ones who designed it in the first place...
That's no excuse for such a stupid fault, but these headlines are seem like they're designed to make people panic, which is the worst possible thing you could do stuck in that situation.
This is not a how-to guide on getting out of a stuck accelerator situation.
Surely we can discuss design issues that affect only a single model of car that already has so much controversy over it already. It is scary when this kind of thing happens. Especially on this ugly thing that's already pointy.
If people think this problem in any vehicle turns it into a missile —any more than it normally is— they need to know how to control an automatic with a stuck throttle. It's basic vehicle education and here, I think it's worth reminding people.
Tesla deserves the bad press. People deserve better education. Both can be true.
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[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 120 ms ] thread…
It’s worth also calling out that there doesn't appear to be any fasteners holding the pedal cover on, which means that the cover could be either friction-fit or held on with adhesive, possibly a product of cost savings.”
Cyberfucks lol
So no surprises here from a company that decides to "disrupt" over learn from the past.
For the moment, they are in the breaking phase.
The end of the article says there is a 5 year wait time for one, and close to 2 million on the wait list.
They (Tesla) also look to have overpromised a bit. When Cybertruck was announced the base model was $39,900 and Elon suggested incentives could bring it even lower [0]. The three tiers were $40/50/70k, then it launched at $61/80/100k. To be fair, $40k in 2019 is around $48k today but that's still a 25% price increase.
Also, the high-end version was initially presented as having 500 mile range and 14000lb towing capacity, but now it's 320 mile range and 11000lb capacity. (edit: sibling comment mentioned this already)
[0] https://youtu.be/464puoD09dM?t=628
And the anticlimactic tent: https://electrek.co/2024/03/08/tesla-shipping-cybertruck-ten... - $3,000?!? With no "Tent Mode" to self-level, and no integration into the vehicle HVAC?
There's got to be a system/UX design thing somewhere to prevent this. It's extremely rare for someone to want to brake while keeping the foot fully pressed on the accelerator, and then want to accelerate fast moments later.
guess how do they do it
On the day-to-day I agree its probably not common but I also am not sure I would want a system that decides to not apply acceleration. Too many edge cases in the real world to try and determine what the user would want. Not bad UX but very bad hardware design/QC for having a pedal cover that is just attached with some clips
Easy solution: pressure plate that measures which part of the pedal is getting pushed. Floor mats/loose pedals press on the bottom, humans press at the top.
Fancy but probably excellent when functioning solution: Use computer vision to detect foot position using camera(s) down there. Maybe IR lighting too.
There's more possible ways but I think you get what I'm trying to say.
It can happen in near accident situations. First slow down, then after seeing the reaction of the other vehicle, accelerate in a different direction. I wouldn't want to confirm a touchscreen in that situation.
That being said, that should really only happen on an actual track.
On a related note, I test-drove a Model 3 last week and was absolutely astonished at how impractical the indicators (blinkers) being on the inside of the wheel were when dealing with roundabouts. Some Tesla-zealot-friends assured me you get used to the muscle memory of where they are, but there is a genuine reason we have had the knobs on the wheel for this - it's always in the same position. Doing a bit of googling after getting home, seems to suggest that them removing the indicator knobs seems to be _also_ as a result of cost-saving.
So they took the design choices of a Citroen CX? Only with the indicators in a variable position instead of next to the wheel for added difficulty of using it.
It's quite possibly the most stupid degradation of user experience I have ever seen in a car - and the sole reason I won't be buying a Model 3 when I'm next in the market for a new car.
[1] https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/11/Lead-016-2024-Tes...
And with these little boardroom gems is how things get done and justified in any sizable venture. With that the expensive problem of designing, procuring and producing a fair complex and critical part stopped being a problem.
Those aren’t necessarily related. Tesla might look to maximize profits no matter what, so if they can save $20 on pedal fastening they won’t pass that onto the customer, they’ll just pocket the difference.
Sure, I might get use to them, but I also drive other, normal cars. I don’t want to have to think about my Teslas blinkers being different than literally everything else.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a worse trip in the back seat of a car.
That's no excuse for such a stupid fault, but these headlines are seem like they're designed to make people panic, which is the worst possible thing you could do stuck in that situation.
Surely we can discuss design issues that affect only a single model of car that already has so much controversy over it already. It is scary when this kind of thing happens. Especially on this ugly thing that's already pointy.
Tesla deserves the bad press. People deserve better education. Both can be true.