I'm 38 Web Developer and close to burnout
I think I have reached some sort of burnout/depression.
I am home all day long and I do not find enjoyment for what I do anymore (it has been like that for many years, but I never wanted to face it). Recently it struck me: my job will be one of the first ones wich will be replaced by AI. Maybe not tomorrow, but sooner that many think. Even if it doesn't happen I still will end up depressed in a few months if I don't do something.
I don't know if I have the will or strength to learn anything else. I studied computer science, but I wasn't good, just average. Now I have forgotten pretty much everything about algorithm, calculus or algebra, I have only used JavaScript as programming language. I have built full stack applications, but never went deep into anything, always stayed in the shallows.
This is obviously my fault.
Right now I feel I am stuck in a bad place, not sure on what to do... I guess this is a plea for help? Has anyone else been in a similar situation, what might help?
53 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 112 ms ] threadWhat do you truly truly enjoy?
It's easy for me to ask you question.
Often times, the answer lies within.
PS: Please enjoy the time with your child; It doesn't come often in a life time :)
(If you need to put food on the table, you could consider doing it part time too).
It depends on the project and the organization, but a lot of programming can feel Sisyphean -- you just push the same boulder up the hill and it rolls back down. Requirements change, legacy code requires maintenance, it starts to look old and boring and you feel like you will never get to do something fun and interesting. And the job often feels thankless -- management, customers, users don't know or appreciate the work you put in, they just keep coming up with more demands.
When I start to think those thoughts and feel frustrated I remind myself that I get paid well for doing work few people can do, and I have to find satisfaction in myself for doing a good job. I make the effort to get to know other parts of the business, people outside of IT, so I can see the effects of my work and maybe find ways to improve things no one told me about. Sometimes the end users tell me how something I did made their job easier, sometimes management tells me how I saved money or improved the bottom line. So try engaging with the rest of the organization. I think too many programmers stay in their cubicle (or in our case, our home office -- I work remotely too) and feel alienated from the company and end users, which can make the job feel less satisfying and disconnected.
My parents had what I thought of as boring union jobs. They did their 9 to 5, came home and never talked about or stressed over work. It was the same predictable thing day after day. They didn't expect their job to provide personal growth, or to match up with their dreams, or even to enjoy their jobs. It was a way to pay the bills, to raise kids, to save up for things they did want to do. They might have a good day, make friends at work, have a laugh, but their happiness didn't derive from the job and they didn't expect it to. I used to think my parents had failed because they didn't "follow their dreams" or strive for more "fulfilling" jobs, but as I got older I started to think they got it right. Now I don't expect my work to make me happy, or think I need to enjoy every minute of it. I get paid well and I don't have to break my back like a lot of people do for much less money.
I think people imagine a more enjoyable and fulfilling career and then measure what they actually do against that imaginary path not taken. But when you talk to people you find out almost everyone feels the same way. You can find people online bragging about changing the world and living their dream, and maybe some of them do, but mostly I think it's either inexperience or delusion, or fishing for likes on social media. Today's hyper-motivated young programmer still feeling the thrill of getting some cool code to work will run out of energy and realize the software business has exploited that exuberance and optimism. Douglas Coupland (I think) once quipped that the software business was built on the labor of unsocialized young men. I remember when I looked forward to working 16 hours a day for pizza and beer. Then I figured out I was just getting used, I didn't have the maturity and I mistook a few perks and a fake "fun" workplace for living my dream. Once I had a family the job seemed more necessary but far less important to my personal sense of self and well-being. Now I just want the paycheck for a reasonable number of hours.
Over time I came to expect less from my work in terms of kudos or happiness or self-fulfillment. I didn't expect it, but letting go of those expectations made me feel more satisfied with the work -- I could deal with it as a craft I had mastered and take satisfaction in doing a good job, even if no one else recognized that. The book Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance helped me rethink my priorities and expectations, and reframe "quality" and "satisfacti...
I have seen threats like this come and go before — low code/no code, offshoring, packaged software. I’ve already been through two “AI winters” in my career. LLMs can (barely) write working code given the right prompts and someone examining and testing the output, but writing code only describes part of the work professional programmers do. LLMs can’t solve business problems or participate in the team and organization to multiply the skills and experience needed to implement complex solutions. If managers could describe requirements in sufficient detail without ambiguity LLMs might work for some simple tasks, but I have almost never seen that in practice — when was the last time you got complete, consistent, and unambiguous requirements?
LLMs will likely top out before they can replace anything but the most rote jobs because they just regurgitate training data. And the cost of high-end AI will likely approach the cost of human programmers before AI outperforms people in meaningful tasks. So don’t worry about that.
Management may use AI as an excuse to reduce labor costs and keep the remaining staff scared but I think that strategy will ultimately fail as they realize LLMs/AI don’t really do the same job as professional programmers.
I also live in a foreign country, and I don’t speak the language fluently. I’m ok with that, I actually enjoy the “soft fog of incomprehension” as novelist Lawrence Osborne put it. Every day I feel curious and interested, living in a culture and language I don’t understand. I make the effort to talk to people, at least one stranger every day, and I’ve made friends that way.
I know it sounds trite, but remind yourself that you experience emotions and feelings in your mind. Those don’t happen to you out of your control. You can’t change the world or other people but you can adapt and change how you react and feel. Reframe “I am lonely” or “This job burns me out” as “I feel lonely” and “I feel burned out” so you can act on those feelings and how you react to the world.
This made me cry/laugh. Very astute.
I faced a similar complete dispassion towards my coding work last year, and decided to embark on a quest to build something of my own. It's hard, but I also feel alive needing to constantly think creatively about creating value for society--infinitely more fulfilling than performing the tasks set out to me by my manager.
I went through a similar journey recently and I found that re-discovering the things that brought me joy has changed my mindset. Consider projects or find hobbies away from the computer, for me it has been basketball
I was in a very similar situation and going someplace else to work (cafe,shared working space, wherever really) helped me a lot. It's a start. Getting out of the house helps.
> 2 years ago I had a child
Build little games and toys using JS and Raspberry Pis, or focus on spending quality time with them showing them Italy - collect bugs or leaves. There is probably a lot of overlap between what you know how to build and what a kid would love
> I am home all day long and I do not find enjoyment for what I do anymore
Do something else. Get into skateboarding or surfing or hiking or biking. Action sports can be done solo and have a built-in progression system, it can be addicting and it's nice to have a physical/active complement to your tech/computer side. It will open up more communities to you and give more content to your life, you'll meet new people too, some friends, some not! It all adds more spice to life though.
> JavaScript
Has been stagnant lately, especially with the rise of AI. This leads to my next one:
> I will be replaced by AI
Help AI replace you and then sell your solution to the AI companies, because they're actually nowhere near replacing people and the industry needs technical help bad. The JavaScript ecosystem could use a lot more AI tooling, even if they're just wrappers around Python libraries, or more examples of building LLM-based apps in JS. As someone the same age as you, with also the same number of years of professional experience, I've found the AI/LLM trend really refreshing and interesting compared to typical full-stack dev, which is so corporate and boring now.
TLDR: You seem bored more than anything, yet it sounds like you're overall taken care of and living in a pretty awesome location. You have a lot to be grateful for considering how many people are roughing it, and you have a lot in your life already that is exciting and that you can work with - you just can't see it. If you don't have coffee normally (in Italy yeah right) try having good coffee in the morning, or try a psychedelic to help you see things anew, sometimes we just need to be reminded of who we are, what we're doing.
Run open-source models locally on your computer like `ollama run mistral` and it will be serving over localhost. Your app can then use any LLM locally by HTTP request or you can use an npm wrapper (npm i ollama) and it's as simple as `ollama.chat()`.
Libraries like LangChain (LlamaIndex, etc.) also come with the Ollama wrapper in the library. You can just `import { Ollama } from "@langchain/community/llms/ollama"`
(not affiliated with any of these, just used them as a dev)
Make sure to share on Show HN what you build :D
Chances are it has nothing to do with your work per se. But it is mentally and emotionally easy to blaim it. And our mind and feelings prefer easier path, not the right one.
Success in life (wife, kids, close family)
Computer science degree
15 years of delivering business value
Experience across the full stack of development
Experienced in JavaScript
Experience in all the ancillary tools (vs code, GIT, windows/linux etc)
Also: demand for technology is growing. Some fancy AI is not going to handle all of those very specific needs. Trust that you'll figure it out, should you need to.
Such an odd and rather rude thing to say. He has his wife so at least one person cares/should care about it. OP you definitely need help and you are never alone.
First thing you should do: Take time off. Like 2-4 weeks. Talk to your doctor. Don't get a bad feeling because you are "doing nothing" or because "your colleagues have to do everything". No one cares about that, trust me. Do something completely different in this time, like talking daily walks.
And don't worry about AI, it won't take your job. Not in Europe ;).
1. Do some corporate espionage
2. Become a revolutionary
3. Study category theory
4. Adopt a heavy cannabis concentrate habit
5. Wander in public speaking gibberish
6. Be held at gun point because of how your luscious hair makes the gunman's wife feel
8. Shave your luscious locks out of respect for the institution of marriage (and to cosplay as Alexander1 Grothendieck)
7. Start a company making real value instead of web crap
8. Adopt a leadership and mentorship role, where you teach category theory, business theory, and software engineering
9. Build and own your own AI replacement
This was my own burnout recovery journey - yours can be different and hopefully easier!
Good luck!
source: divorce