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Ask HN: How to manage phones and PCs for elderly parents?

278 points by thepuppet33r ↗ HN
I have a friend whose parents are getting up in years. They're still functional enough that they want to be independent and surf the web, check their stocks, etc. He has some remote desktop software installed on their PCs, and antivirus installed and locked down. But they keep destroying their PCs with downloads, keep turning airplane mode on for their phones and can't figure out how to disable it, and recently his dad got in a cleaning mood and deleted a bunch of system files and bricked his machine. He's almost to the point of setting up an Intune tenant just to onboard and lock down his parents devices. Any suggestions on how to manage phones and PCs of the elderly to keep them functional but useful?

378 comments

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k310
Blast from the past, but might be useful. Sun tentatively made a computer that ran from cdrom, as TAILS does. The OS was immutable. You could store files on external media. Presumably, have those backed up in time-machine fashion, so as the be able to recover lost files, rather than a snapshot backup.

What a struggle computers are. I am old as dirt but supposedly on top of things. Apple Mail.app forgot my sender address and kept asking me for a "hide my email" From: address. Being a propeller-head, I found it and fixed it. What a fright it must be when things go bonkers and you have no clue.

I don't recall where user settings go on a cdrom OS. Perhaps on a separate home partition or overlay on removable RW storage.

Can't speak for phones.

al_borland
I found the issues went down a lot when I moved everyone to macOS. The OS itself is sandboxed, so a user can’t really destroy it. My mom downloaded some “screensavers” that were actually viruses, and since they were .exe files, they didn’t run or do anything.

I think the only thing better would be some kind of immutable OS, where each reboot restores it to its original state. I haven’t set up anything like this on hardware, but I’ve seen it as a VM offering.

Of course, if they are already used to some other system, like Windows, changing is probably more trouble than it’s worth. You could just really lock it down, so they only have access to certain applications and their home folder.

For the phone, if on iOS, Apple introduced Assistive Access not too long ago to dumb down the phone for people who might need it. You can control which apps they get, and present a simplified version of the apps.

https://support.apple.com/guide/assistive-access-iphone/set-...

smackeyacky
This is a good suggestion. I don't know why but my mother is intent on destroying her laptop by visiting a lot of religious sites. They all seem to be infected with all kinds of malicious advertisements and bogus download buttons.

For the phone, she has an Android but I'm moving her to an iPhone at the first opportunity I get. I tried to talk her into a Macbook Air when she replaced the last laptop but since I wasn't there at the time they foisted another Windows machine on her.

Another source of problems is the endless email chains that her generation seem to love, they will forward all kinds of content that is all "hey this is funny watch this" sort of stuff, but turns out to be malicious in some way i.e. download this thing to watch the video, where the thing is some kind of hideous malware.

(please note: this is not an anti-religious post, but the malware makers seem to target those sites much more than anything else I have seen.)

youainti
> (please note: this is not an anti-religious post, but the malware makers seem to target those sites much more than anything else I have seen.)

I would guess it is because older people are more likely to visit, so setting up such a site or just buying ad space on it is a good way to target an older (and less tech-savvy) audience.

al_borland
I was thinking it’s more of a trust thing. “If it’s on the church site it must be ok.”
mnsc
Why not both?
rstuart4133
> They all seem to be infected with all kinds of malicious advertisements and bogus download buttons.

If ads are a problem there is pretty good solution: Firefox + uBlock Origin and perhaps some other extensions. Apple doesn't allow Firefox on iOS which is why I would never recommend it.

The thing I have a continual problem with is "accidental" rearranging of the home screen. "My xyz application has gone" is a continual complaint. (It's been dragged to another screen.) Accidental is in quotes because the young grandkids delight it rearranging it once they discover how.

There is no solution on iOS. Android can potentially solve this because you can replace the launcher. But only potentially, because I've yet to find a good "elderly friendly" launcher. Actually, it's not just "elderly only" as if I found one that allowed you to lock the launcher layout somehow, I'd use it. "Pocket rearrangement" of my home screen is far too common.

In general "aggressive simplification" of the UI is the key here. Provide just the things they use, and remove things they don't like "don't disturb". In the hands of an elderly person a "don't disturb" button hidden in the notification area becomes a "break my phone" button. Android does in principle all you to remove all of those. iOS doesn't.

theandrewbailey
> Of course, if they are already used to some other system, like Windows, changing is probably more trouble than it’s worth.

I thought that, too, but I installed Xubuntu on my parents PC, told them it works like Windows (like double click desktop icons to open programs, the X button in the corner closes them), showed them how to check email, watch Youtube, play solitaire, and shut down. I expected them to say "put it back like what it was", but after about 10 years, it never happened. I eventually showed them how to keep it up to date, but no big security issues ever happened like on Windows.

knappe
I too did this for my family, but with Ubuntu many years ago. I expected it to be a rather rough switch from Windows, but everyone migrated without a hitch. And the number of support calls went to basically zero.
throwaway11460
I did the same with a similar outcome.

Turns out they stopped using the computer.

danielskogly
Did this, but with Linux Mint, and had the same experience. If one only needs a browser and word processor, many Linux distros seem perfect.
mavhc
Might as well get a Chromebook
Workaccount2
Linux is great for power users and the absolute lightest users, with nothing but punishment in the middle.
skyyler
I've not had problems recommending Fedora to people. The punishment seems to come with trying to play games that aren't supported by the developer.
weakfish
+1. My dad even figured out how to use LibreOffice, which was awesome
rob74
We here on HN may have our doubts about Linux on the desktop, but for basic usage (= mostly using just the browser) it's more than good enough. And the main advantage (same as with MacOS) is that it's not Windows - which isn't necessarily going against Microsoft (although they are doing their part too with botched Windows updates), the biggest problem with Windows is that most malware is still targeting it.
itsoktocry
>the biggest problem with Windows is that most malware is still targeting it.

And even so, when's the last time Windows had a serious security issue? I've been out of the Windows loop for a while, but it seems the biggest vulnerabilities of the past few years are OS agnostic.

rob74
Then again, you don't need a huge vulnerability, you just need enough hapless users who voluntarily download and install software containing your malware...
Symbiote
So don't give them root access, and mount the /home partition as noexec to prevent executing downloaded programs.

I set up a dual-boot Ubuntu install many years ago like this. It worked for years without me realizing — the Windows install had some problem, and my dad started using Ubuntu without telling me.

syntheticnature
I figure the downloaded malware is more a reference to machines running Windows, not Ubuntu.
desdenova
It's still pretty easy to download malicious shell scripts that can wreck your user data and configs on Linux, so noexec is a great tip for setting up a system for a non-technical user.
gigglesupstairs
Great example. Similar design patterns result in similar user experiences irrespective of platform. Who would have thunk?
stacktrust
> I think the only thing better would be some kind of immutable OS, where each reboot restores it to its original state. I haven’t set up anything like this on hardware, but I’ve seen it as a VM offering.

Stateless Windows: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40127728

fuzzfactor
>Stateless Windows

Good suggestion.

This is the Universal Write Filter (UWF) which descended from the earlier Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) in Windows Embedded.

Basically Windows runs like normal (i.e. from your Windows folder on the drive it is installed on), but any time there would normally be a need to write to the drive (for updating settings, files or whatever) the writes are directed to the RAM instead, so writes can be discarded as desired upon reboot for Windows to return to the reference state.

The UWF can be combined with Windows Kiosk Mode and it can be a foundation for a pretty well-mangaged stand-alone (or networked) desktop.

Alternatively, with a Linux Live desktop like you get when booted to a Linux Live "install" USB stick (without Linux actually being installed on HDD or SSD), the OS and entire file system itself runs from memory, and any updates or apps you install are also in memory only unless you enable "persistence", otherwise there are no routine writes to the USB drive and it reboots to the same reference defaults every time.

m463
You would think that macos didn't have problems, but I recently cleaned up someone's mac after I noticed a LOT of redirects when loading a website in safari.

Lots of weird directories with almost the right name, launch daemons, things that would re-install themselves when removed, etc.

the situation was basically nuke from orbit and start over.

this was a few os's back on intel. Maybe it's better now?

al_borland
I can’t remember exactly when macOS made the change. It was a few years back.

>The system domain contains the system software installed by Apple. The resources in the system domain are required by the system to run. Users cannot add, remove, or alter items in this domain.

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Fi...

I’m sure it’s still possible to junk a system up, but a user shouldn’t be able to screw up the actual system files.

/Library is probably the biggest wildcard, as it impacts all users on the system, otherwise, creating a new user account should clean up pretty much everything, without having to reinstall the OS itself. I assume making a normal user account for the persons could allow the admin the ability to prevent the user from adding things to /Applications and /Library. The user would still be able to install apps using a ~/Applications folder and have settings in ~/Library. ~/Library is typically used automatically, while ~/Applications is something that needs to be created, but works just fine. I use this at work to install some things I would otherwise not be able to install.

m463
I don't recall if that was after APFS and the immutable system. I do remember the stuff I tried cleaning up was in the user's home directory.

Not exactly this name, but it might be a directory 'ApplicationSupport' instead of 'Application Support' or something like that.

al_borland
My guess would be whatever subfolders were in the bad Application Support folder would point to the poorly written software that needs to be removed.
m463
To be clear, it is not "poorly written" but malicious and hiding itself.
wil421
Same thing happened to me with Mac Keeper malware. Some bogus software I downloaded automatically checked a download Mac Keeper checkbox and it was down the rabbit hole for a few days.

I think I ended up doing a clean install on a days old back up to rid my self of it. It was years ago on an Intel Mac.

dehrmann
> I think the only thing better would be some kind of immutable OS, where each reboot restores it to its original state

I looked into a few of these, but none of their OS update stories were good, it's confusing if anyone random helps out, and saving photos across reboots is fragile.

mattnewton
I found a Chromebook, well “chrome top” desktop did this well enough. It’s not technically immutable but it’s hard enough to install and break things that it worked well with my grandmother.
donatj
The biggest problem I have had since I switched my parents to Mac is just my brother in-law who lives with them and regularly loudly proclaim about Macs being a waste of money. He’s installed “virus scanners” multiple times that were themselves if not viruses, at the very least adware. He’s also attempted to defrag my moms ssd-having Mac Mini with some sort of software that claims to do so.

They don’t have admin rights anymore most because of this. For some reason though their printer driver regularly pops a notification asking for admin privileges.

giantrobot
> For some reason though their printer driver regularly pops a notification asking for admin privileges.

Printers are garbage, printer drivers are dumpster fires, and the people responsible for both are sociopaths.

mdasen
The thing I love about my parents getting Apple products is that they can just go to the Apple Store and have someone help them. An app wasn't launching on their phone, they went to the Apple Store, the person figured out that they hadn't updated their apps in a long time, did that, made sure it worked, and turned on auto-updates (after asking if that would be good for them). Perfect, I didn't even know they had a problem until I heard the story about it being fixed.

I've had relatives go to other tech support places and usually it means they pay money for someone to upsell them on something else or tell them they need a new machine. Apple is fine supporting my parents who don't want a new iPhone. Yea, eventually it's out of support, but it's a long enough time.

I also love that the Apple ecosystem tends towards "you should be willing to pay money for something" rather than "let's see how we can scam money out of someone unwilling to part with their money." If you're techie, you know the difference between real stuff and fake stuff. When non-techies get a pop-up on their Windows laptop telling them that their anti-virus subscription is running out (that came pre-installed) and that they'll be vulnerable to all sorts of bad things if they don't pay $50, they get nervous and call me. Then I have to figure out (over the phone) how to uninstall the crap and get Microsoft Defender working.

Even Windows 11 is just becoming a pile of ads and other junk.

With streaming TV boxes, Roku ends up installing apps they don't know how to uninstall because if you press the play button while the TV is off, it installs whatever app they're promoting on the screen saver. Fire TV and Android TV are a mess of ads and it's hard to know what content you have access to and what you don't. I'm just so sick of relatives asking me "How did this app get on my Roku? How do I get it off?" and things like "How do I only see the shows I have access to? Why is it showing me Showtime when it tells me I have to pay when I click on it? I think dad might have subscribed to things because he didn't know what he was doing. How do I cancel that? No I don't know what he might have subscribed to."

Sure, you can say that Apple TV comes with the Apple TV app pre-installed, but it isn't constantly pushing things on you. Sure, Apple would like an iCloud subscription, but if my parents end up giving Apple $1/mo, I'm fine with that. The level of difference is simply astonishing. It's like having a store email you once "hey, we have new pants" compared to the stores that email you twice a day "HEY!!!! HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT NEW PANTS!!!!" You can say "they're both doing it", but there's a huge difference.

Apple isn't perfect, but I feel comfortable with non-techie people in my life having Apple products. They can get support when they need it at the Apple Store, Apple is happy with the money they've paid for the product, and I can put their technical needs out of my mind. They love it too. They get unlimited free access to helpful employees who fix their stuff faster than I can get to it. Yea, if you're techie you know how things work and what to look for and you can make decisions for yourself. When relatives buy non-Apple stuff, they're making a decision that I'm going to fix things for them.

cjk2
My father has completely destroyed two M1 iMac installs so far. YMMV.

He watches YT videos all day and is paranoid about everything. End game was he managed to install two different VPN packages on one install and managed to install a system cleaner on another and spend about £500 in total and end up with two non working systems and higher blood pressure.

I think at this point he needs an iPad in a rugged case with screen time turned on and all his credit cards taking away. Possibly locking his hands in a box somewhere where they can't curse anything as well.

walthamstow
He needs an adblocker! Most YT adverts are designed to open the wallets of unsophisticated people, often giving them nothing good in return.
cjk2
I put AdGuard on it. It’s mostly in video sponsorships (fuck you NordVPN) and I don’t think there’s an equivalent to sponsorblock for safari.
Nextgrid
SponsorBlock for Safari exists btw, I use it. Check the App Store, though you can also compile it from scratch if you're adventurous.
cjk2
I will have a go at this later. Thanks for the heads up.
dotancohen
What was the problem with Nord?
cjk2
I think the point is more what’s the point of NordVPN?
dotancohen
As opposed to any other VPN?
cjk2
As opposed to no VPN.
eitally
Watching region-locked content is a compelling use case.
cjk2
I just don’t bother or steal it.
javajosh
Another option is to pony up for youtube premium, which eliminates most ads.
mavhc
Don't give people admin rights, that's madness!
cjk2
Difficult not to give admin rights to someone who paid for it. I tried.
mavhc
Give them a second user with a really really complex password that's written down and sealed in an envelope. On the inside of the envelope put another piece of paper that says "I told you so"
cjk2
Problem self-rectified. He died this afternoon :(
huntoa
I'm sorry for you loss. I wish you strength.
cjk2
Thanks. Appreciated. Staring at HN for distraction.
wpm
This works only if you're on-call for every little thing. macOS is not Windows, running as a standard user is highly constrictive.

For someone just watching YouTube videos maybe it can work, but its also incredibly infantilizing too.

skyyler
The topic of this thread is protecting the elderly from their devices. Some level of infantilising is required, unfortunately.
blooalien
My mother once somehow trashed her MacOS X install so bad it was stopping at a gray frowny-faced Mac logo screen and going no further. Because I had helped her set up SSH service on it a while prior, I was able to easily remote in from my Linux desktop and actually fix the thing and reboot it for her from hundreds of miles away. Macs make great machines for tech-terrified parental units, even when they break down. :)
superb_dev
> I think the only thing better would be some kind of immutable OS, where each reboot restores it to its original state. I haven’t set up anything like this on hardware, but I’ve seen it as a VM offering.

Doesn’t ChromeOS do something like this?

walrus01
For whatever it's worth giving people a desktop or laptop computer that is a bare bones linux install and desktop environment will also prevent old people from screwing up a computer. Literally 99% of what they are ever going to do is inside a browser, and will function just fine inside of Firefox and/or Chromium as their user interface to the computer.

It's highly unlikely that an older person is going to successfully find, download and install a malicious .deb file, or follow the instructions to "copy this to clipboard and paste it with sudo" into their shell to compromise a linux machine.

mxvanzant
Agreed: my father-in-law was continuously trashing his Windows install. Many years ago, I put him on Linux Mint + MATE where he only uses Firefox and a bit of LibreOffice -- he's been fine with this setup -- his only remaining issues (for the most part) are when his Yahoo Email interface changes, etc. And, he has not managed to trash it yet! ;)
icar
You might want to set up NixOS with impermanence, with something like https://github.com/nix-community/impermanence. Install an easy to use desktop environment like ElementaryOS, and configure NixOS with or without Flatpak, if you want to give the user the ability to install new software or not. Then set up automatic updates, automatic garbage collection and you have a truly stable system.
brundolf
> I think the only thing better would be some kind of immutable OS

Simple, just set them up with NixOS ;)

breadwinner
ChromeBooks are great for this since all they really need is a web browser.
analog31
Just for fun I installed ChromeOS Flex on an old Lenovo laptop. Installation was a breeze, and ChromeOS seems quite snappy. The number of possible settings are pretty minimal -- connecting to your local WiFi and logging into your Google account may be the only setup needed.

Also, ChromeOS doesn't come pre-loaded with tons of obnoxious crap-ware.

vundercind
Accessibility features are really bad though. Given their market is old people and kids, I was shocked at how bad it was when I tried to help my dad set his up to work better for him. I’d just assumed they’d at least be close to Apple operating systems.
tommiegannert
First time I hear of this issue. Which aspects are bad?
ninju
A Chromebook a good option.
mynameisnoone
Definitely not. These timeout creating e-waste and are borderline useless.
nolist_policy
I don't know what you're talking about. Chromebooks receive 10 years of updates.
rawgabbit
My MIL has early dementia. We are trying to keep her living at home as long as possible but her mental decline has made it more and more difficult. Her behavior is getting more and more out of control. She has an iPhone she is attached to. She has YouTube on 24 hours a day. That and she uses FaceTime. Looking back, we should have gotten her an iPhone with a physical home button. Sometimes she forgets how to swipe away apps. In frustration she turns the phone off. Don’t get me started about all the scams. There is a not scammer she completely trusts and will argue non stop with my wife that my wife should listen to the scammer and sign over the house etc.
vundercind
The home button is one of the most-brilliant pieces of design in computing, period. I’m still bitter that between ditching it and post-iOS6 software design changes they’ve made iOS devices so much less intuitive and friendly.

It was like a little safety net for people who easily get “lost” in their computers. Which is most users! Watch non-nerds use a computer some time. God I miss that beautiful little button. What a step backwards.

RGamma
iPhone SE has them still.
wruza
Also the borders. My grandma simply cannot avoid touching the screen while showing me something. “Oh, it disappeared”. Borderless devices require very specific, unnatural palm motorics to handle.

Also, when choosing my phone I was between 13 mini and se2. I got se2 and my buddy 13 mini. Our every interaction in telegram ended with <buddy recording audio>, because to swipe away an app you have to squeeze your phone in palm, which touches all sorts of borders. I want to shame everyone “borderless” designer out there, you suck.

wpm
Yup I replaced the battery in my old XS and gave it to my mom as an upgrade from her aged 7 or whatever. She hated the swipe gestures and still complains about them. Should'a just bought her an SE.
walteweiss
Why is 7 aged though? It works very well in my household.
aledalgrande
Not exactly the answer to OP, but when we had to decide what device to buy for my mom, we bought her an iPad. Best choice ever. Zero maintenance, it's fast, she can do whatever she needs and wants and it's light and easy to move. Drop some water on it? It's fine. Not even the cat can destroy it.
rl3
>Drop some water on it? It's fine.

Careful. I did this to my Magic Keyboard recently. $350 later..

aledalgrande
Yeah the point is with an iPad you don't have a keyboard to ruin with dust, dirt and liquids. Sure you can't literally dunk it into a pool, but the lifetime is extended compared to a laptop, if you are a person who's not good at taking care of your device.
rl3
I just assumed the Magic Keyboard had the same water resistance rating as its parent device. Turns out, I was unfortunately right: iPads aren't rated for water resistance, unlike iPhones; TIL.

At least the keyboard was kind enough to take one for the team. I never want to find out Apple's unit cost for those.

vuln
Costly assumption.
dangus
You can also put iPads in MDM software and manage them remotely very easily.
vishalontheline
My parents are retired and not as computer literate as I hope, and they prefer to keep it that way.

They have Apple products - iPhones, iPads and the Genius Bar takes great care of them.

AmVess
That's what I did for my mom. She can poke her way around Windows, but she doesn't know how to do backups.

Iphone/Ipad is easy. Automatic cloud backups. I bought her a new iphone, and she was delighted with the transfer of everything. I simply put them next to each other and poked a few bottons. 5 minutes later, all her stuff was moved over.

apimade
If the cognitive load of migrating away from Windows is too much, ManageEngine is free for your use-case (for forcing updates/policies, monitoring, and managing access). I'd look at using Assigned Access too (previously known as Kiosk Mode) for locking down their environment to things like browsing the internet.. And nothing else: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/assi...

However, locked down Chromebooks and Android profiles are generally the best way to go. Not sure about the Apple ecosystem (even though that's what I'd choose - just haven't found readily available advice).

ulfw
I moved my mum over to iPad while she was still around. Best thing ever. Much easier to use for elderly people and it does absolutely everything she needed to do without the hassle of a full blown desktop OS.
mynameisnoone
iPad and iPhone. Much less to maintain than an Android phone and a desktop PC. Ask me how I know. ;@)
JSR_FDED
My father is 84. On average once a week he calls me in a state of confusion and despair that he can’t do something on the computer. 100% of the time it involves logging in to a website or paying for something. This is when I’m so happy he has a Mac - I open Messages, find the last message from him and click on the Share Screen icon. We then complete the activity together, as if I’m sitting next to him. I’m always surprised how few people know this is built into macOS.
glaucon
I know nothing about the Apple world so take my question in that context. Is there something equivalent for iPads ?

If my wife could take control of her Father's iPad then both parties would be happier, as far as I have been able to discover this is something that isn't able to be done, by Apple software or third-party. If I found I out I was wrong that would be good.

sneusse
Well, AnyDesk allows screen sharing from i-Devices, not sure about remote control though.
duskwuff
You could start a FaceTime call, have him share his screen, and lead him through whatever he needs to do. You don't have direct control, but if he can follow directions, it'll work.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/109365

polishdude20
I do this easily but with anydesk. It's always on on his Linux Mint laptop and I just start the session, he clicks accept on his popup and we're off.
Moru
I help so many friends AnyDesk has decided I'm a company so I can't use that any more. Now I use RustDesk.
spike021
Almost this same exact thing happened with my parents last week. The only thing is that MacOS' remote desktop seems to work inconsistently. Sometimes it sends the permissions request immediately and sometimes it takes a while. Or the person on the other end says OK but the approval never goes through.

When it works it's fantastic though. Ditto for FaceTime screen sharing.

mackatsol
I find that doing a FaceTime audio call and having them answer on the device.. the requesting screen sharing makes it work every time.

If you do a FaceTime video call they can screen share from inside the call.. but it’s more steps for them.

skatanski
This sounds so good. My father is using windows. He has teamviewer installed - and half the time when I wanna connect with him it turns into a nightmare of new version update. I only have most recent version. He doesn’t know, which version he has. I can’t connect to him, then I need to guide him how to update his version. It’d probably be easier for me to run older version in a VM, but then I don’t want him to run potentially insecure old version of screensharing app.
Peanuts99
If you're both on Windows 10+ you can use Quick Assist which is built in and seems to work pretty well.
crooked-v
I would just go for an iPad with, if necessary, MDM of some kind. With Stage Manager and an external monitor they're fully functional as pseudo-Macs at this point, as long as you don't need anything outside of the App Store.
gibbonsrcool
My father continuously had problems sending pictures over SMS, which would be super helpful so that I could help him accomplish tasks remotely. The built-in app on Android was too confusing for him thanks to cognitive decline. I made a super simple app that's only purpose was to send pics via SMS. One screen, contacts selected by drop down, camera view in the center, one button. Google wouldn't let me publish it because SMS apps on the Play Store have to implement ALL SMS functionality. I sent him the APK by email so at least there's that. It worked well for him at least. Fuck Google though.
youainti
Would you be open to putting it on F-Droid or something like that?
gibbonsrcool
After doing some Android freelance recently and having a clients Play Store account get shut down because they forgot one of the requirements imposed by Google I’m done with Android, and hopefully can free myself from Google services completely.
princevegeta89
Fuck Google for asking to always sign in to Google accounts for everything and tying up shit together.
gibbonsrcool
And why are they bugging us for a sign in when in mobile private mode on safari! Gtfoh!
ale42
SMS or MMS? Or is that uploading the picture somewhere and SMSing a link to it?
gibbonsrcool
Yes it’s MMS. Something I learned during the process of making it was that sending a pic wasn’t technically SMS… guess I forgot. Haven’t worked with SMS/MMS since.
ankurdhama
Maybe try Windows S mode ? This is a locked down mode of Windows home edition where you can only install apps from MS store and there are many other restrictions that will prevent accidentally breaking your system.
dangus
Honestly, quitting is an option. My Grandma gave up on email because it was frustrating, especially after her account got locked out thanks to Google’s weird security setup and her lack of recovery options.

I was a bit upset about it at first. I wanted her to be connected to the family. I made her a new paid email managed by me. She didn’t want it.

But it turns out, it’s not that hard to stay connected the old fashioned way.

I send her photos in the mail with Shutterfly. I call her. I visit her. She doesn’t really need a computer for anything. The finances are handled by the family now, but before that she’d just walk into the bank branch or brokerage office.

I might argue that they are a little closer to not being independent than you think.

Still, some of the advice around here could help. Definitely use mobile device management. Migrate to iPad or Chromebook style devices rather than a full operating system. Take airplane mode out of the control center. Remove all the options they shouldn’t touch. Explore the accessibility options, set the text size and cursors big enough.

lanthade
I got sick of repairing and rebuilding my in-laws windows PC about 7 years ago and moved them over to the largest ipads that were available at the time. It was 100% the right move. I haven't had to fix their computer in the past 7 years. Bought refurbs to keep the price down but it was still a couple grand total for two units. I got the cell enabled ones too so they work when they travel. Totally worth it.

A couple years ago I finally got them to switch from their pre-paid flip phone to an iphone. That's also gone extremely well. They own a Thor RV which (no surprise) has a terrible OEM stereo. Replaced that with a carplay capable one with a giant (but pretty low res) screen and that's made their RV travel GPS integration far less buggy than when using plain old bluetooth.

TBH moving them to iOS from windows was far less of a painful process than I expected and I'm pretty apple positive. The fact that it just works and they really can't 'f it up makes a big difference. Now they can download all sorts of shit games and I really don't have to worry about the system getting hosed. If I considered how much I value my time and the frustration multiplier then it's an investment that has easily paid back in multiples.

bsuvc
We have switched to chrome boxes and chrome books for our aging parents.

It's not perfect, but at least they are less likely to get viruses or spyware, which was about every 6 months with Windows.

What is it with older people and their penchant to install every possible crapware they encounter, no matter how strongly you warn them?

SoftTalker
I refuse to do tech support for relatives. It's like getting into any other kind of business with them: a bad idea.

If they want a computer, they deal with the fallout when they screw it up.

The most I'll do if they ask about technology is is ask "what do you want to do with it" and the answer will almost certainly be iPad or Chromebook.

milkthefat
I’ve reduced 99% of tech calls from elderly family(60s-80s) by moving them to either ChromeOS/Android or MacOS/IOS and all printers to Brother lasers. If they spend money on phones I lean toward Apple ecosystem. If they penny pinch - Google is king with all second hand Samsung galaxy/books, Dell enterprise chromebooks, or chromeboxes - making sure to verify years of support. It also makes it significantly easier to not mix ecosystems. I then set updates to automatic and make ublockorigin default in the browser. The last 7 years nearly every issue was resolved with a restart.
dntrkv
How fucking great are Brother laser printers? The UX is shit, but you very rarely have to interact with it because they just fucking do their job.

Mine was in the closet for a couple years once and I took it out, plugged it in, and just printed what I want through WiFi.

I remember dealing with HP drivers on Windows back in the day…

mike503
Just ditched my HP for a Brother a couple months back, after having continual issues with individual colors running out and eventually it refused to recognize a single color cartridge slot, I never used color anyway. So went to a Brother monochrome. Been smooth since.
raihansaputra
another vouch for brother printers. not optimum but i just plopped one connected to wifi only and it can print with minimal config and also scanning through mac's image capture app.
matthewtse
Yes. Installed a Brother printer myself the other day, was expecting a half-day affair, but it all just worked in 5 minutes.

Contrast this with an HP printer I bought. I had to:

- manually install sketchy HP software on my mac

- use that sketchy software, through a USB cable to update the firmware on the HP printer

- somehow figure out how to get the HP printer to connect to Wifi

- get it working, and never touch it again

sowbug
The popular "just buy this printer" Verge article recommends the Brother HL-L2305W. But Brother appears to have gone the subscription route and replaced that model with the HL-L2405W, which is "Amazon Dash Replenishment Ready" and whose product description says "Requires enrollment in a monthly billed Brother Refresh EZ Print Subscription service plan based on monthly printed page allotments."

The older model is no longer available new from Amazon.

Is Brother still a good recommendation? This subscription pivot gives the company all the wrong incentives.

piperswe
I'm looking at the Best Buy page for the printer, and I can see where it would be confusing.

> Choose Brother Genuine TN830 Standard or TN830XL High Yield replacement cartridges. And with Refresh EZ Print Subscription Service, you’ll never worry about running out of toner again and you’ll enjoy savings up to 50%. (3) Get started today with a Free Trial. (4)

> (4) Requires enrollment in a monthly billed Brother Refresh EZ Print Subscription service plan based on monthly printed page allotments. Unused pages roll over, limitations apply. Additional page set charges and taxes apply during trial.

It's just saying that the free trial of their subscription requires enrolling in the subscription. The subscription isn't required to use the printer.

sowbug
Excellent, thanks for the parsing help. :) I didn't find anyone lamenting that Brother had turned to the dark side, so I remained hopeful.
Biganon
They are the only printers the Just Fucking Work™.

Kinda sad, in a way.

m463
Your comment makes me forget that sometimes it's an inside job.

Yes, sometimes it's not sketchysite.com or the "make money fast" email, it is the printer manufacturer that's installing the garbage.

Brajeshwar
I think this will not go down well here on HackerNews because I'm going to suggest sticking up to Apple. Here is my experience. I tried with cheaper phones that we can just replace when they lose, drop it, or many other reasons.

Get them on iPhones, Macs, Apple TV, and iPads. They can be used ones or hand-me-downs, but that ecosystem works for them. Here is a setup for the in-laws.

An Apple TV drives as the "Apple Home" Setup while an iPad (the backup) is mounted near the TV. That room/area is the "talking to the kids area" where they just know how to respond or start a video call. The only other button they learned was to switch between their favorite local cable provider and the Apple TV. It did take a lot of repeated practice from "I can see on the iPad but not TV" to "seeing and talking on the big TV".

iPhones/Macs (instead of selling yours, give them your old one) are the easiest to set up and maintain. The contacts sync, and they have stopped complaining about getting back their phone contacts. The father-in-law once hand-wrote about a 5-paged A4 with about 200+ odd numbers and came to me to sync to the new phone. They are not losing their photos anymore and can spend hours browsing photos of their gigantic family members.

Tip: Set up your Apple TV screensaver with a specific Album and keep sharing photos there. Now, watch the grandparents, grand-everyone just sit in front of the screensaver and spend hours talking, laughing, arguing, crying, and sleeping off.

mamcx
My issue is that I don't know how to avoid the apple password never getting in the way (fail them cause account lockdown). Is it possible to totally restrict access to settings/password entering in iPad?
Brajeshwar
LOL! So, this used to happen a lot when the kids wanted to play with the grandparents phones. So, I explain nicely to everyone that the devices are out of bounds for everyone and no-one touches the devices any more. That solves that. However, on rare occasions, there are needs to enter the Apple password -- my wife have a few other cousins who helps out. For parents with no access to external help, I suggest printing out on a paper and keeping it safe (use a font-size large of a serif fonts). If your local language is not English, complex password but based off the local language are easier -- (in locale) my dear friend's NAME that died during WWII on this DATE, etc. ;-)

Update: For cultural context and to avoid confusion with others around the world who have separate living spaces, my in-laws lives in a pretty large sprawl of almost a colony on their own with their brothers, sisters, cousins, and the entire families. On Google Maps, I had actually named the central home of that locality (my in-laws) to a specific name based on their family name -- making it easy for deliveries by post (Amazon, Post Office, Air Cargo deliveries, etc). In that part of the world, addresses are not precise and still goes on word of mouth.

stacktrust
Yes, you can disable Passcode in Apple Configurator, which uses a Mac to create the XML policy profile.

There's also an OSS project for iOS/macOS configuration profiles.

https://github.com/ProfileCreator/ProfileCreator/wiki

https://github.com/ProfileCreator/ProfileCreator

https://github.com/ProfileCreator/ProfileManifests

wpm
I'm honestly surprised Apple didn't spin their Fleetsmith acquisition into a free, privacy friendly parental/caretaker oriented MDM for home users. Instead, they decided to wade into the crowded waters of "cheap MDM for basic business needs that requires a business license".
stacktrust
To dedicate a device to one app, iOS/macOS has single-app / kiosk mode via Apple Configurator.
asciimov
Hands down Apple products. They all work together well, last a good long time, and have good software coverage.

iPads are the best for those that just need the internet. The MacBook Air is good enough for the advanced stuff, and reasonably priced.

Roku is the one product that I don't think needs the Apple replacement. It is super simple to use, has a simple remote, was easy to tie into a sound system for them. They liked Roku so much that they replaced their older EOL TVs with Roku TVs. Also, I'll lump Sonos into this as they make a great sound product that easily connects to the TV and auto comes on, which is fantastic.

refurb
Didn’t want to move away from Windows and Android so:

- declutterred both to the greatest extent possible - made sure auto updates were working - installed Chrome Remote Desktop on the PC and a remote app on phone

I might get 4-5 questions per year and when I visit I’ll make sure everything is working and updated

Being able to remote in from 12,000 km away is a godsend. It’s usually some minor issue like a setting or update stuck.

blackoil
If you don't want to change OS. Simply creating a non-admin account and installing ad-blockers will go a long way. Tell them most software on Internet have virus so install is blocked. Also enable remote desktop on all.

Edit: For some issues like airplane mode, see if you can remove them from quick access.

psandor
Strange that I had to scroll down this far for this answer. Creating a normal, non-admin user for them will greatly limit the damage they can do as they won't be able to make system-wide changes. I also disabled installing extensions in Edge.
blackoil
I would never recommend something like iPad. I feel psychologically it makes you a passive consumer, while something like Mac/Win is more action oriented.
nemomarx
Is that a problem for the elderly?
elchief
do your parents write a lot of code?
elchief
> Simply creating a non-admin account

tried that on my father's computer, and he decided it was "broken", so took it into a shop to get re-installed...

TomJansen
My grandma's pretty good with her Android phone, but every month, she calls us totally lost because apps like WhatsApp keep messing with the UI. Why do they have to change the interface so often? Most times, these changes seem pointless and just confuse her.