For context, that's around the time I entered University. I bought an HP48S calculator ($200 canadian), which I spent so much time on, it used 3 AAA batteries which would last for months. There was a whole hacking community around it, someone even ported pacman to it. It helped me out during exams, because I was able to write programs for it that would for example calculate eigenvalues of matrices. I remember when I was at the place that I bought the HP48, the guy behind the counter was showing off his Apple Newton. Who would have thought what would materialize nearly 20 years later (IPhone). About 10 years later I remember playing with the Compaq Ipaq, that too failed to gain mass adoption. It took a while to find the right formula that would allow mass adoption.
I still have my Newton and my HP-48SX. Yeah, the Newton was clearly ahead of its time. Maybe the main thing that "made" the iPhone was connectivity (and ofcourse having the "Internet" to connect to) - neither were really there for the Newton (or other PDAs for that matter). It's those intersections in technology Internet/Celluar network/Hardware/Software where things take off. An expensive cool PDA without the rest of it is just that. The iPhone was a little bit cheaper (again driven by hardware technologies maturing).
Have vivid memory of my dad unboxing his 5mx with me and we were both in awe of the tech, don't get that very often anymore, at least from the hardware.
The Psion series 5mx provided an impressive amount of portable computing power and ran on two AA batteries plus a coin-shaped memory backup battery.
I used mine to take notes in university classes because I couldn't afford a laptop and it worked great. The keyboard was a bit small, but big enough for touch typing. The built-in office programs made it a productivity beast and the compact flash slot meant I had a whopping 16 MB of storage which held several hundreds of documents and files.
After owning such a useful and charming little machine was sad to see Psion leave the hardware business and turn EPOC into Symbian.
I remember the Psion series 5mx price was about half the cost of a laptop. The sales clerk in the electronics store tried to convince me to buy a Palm device instead, but I had seen a Psion series 5mx while in Europe and knew what I wanted.
I too had one in college, but I mostly used it to play Sim City. I did have a laptop, but it was clunky and had terrible battery life, so I was much happier with the Psion.
I had "just" a Psion 5, but I still think the keyboard was better than many of todays small notebooks. I had even Doom on it (to slow, buts still). I used mostly the spreadsheet app for all kind of things.
The biggest miss was difficult to get access to a network for email or so.
I remember using the IR port on the 5mx (I think the 5 had this but I'm not 100% sure) to talk to my phone at the time and use it as a modem while on the move. It was hardly convenient, but it worked. Not fast or cheap either, IIRC limited to 19k200 and paying by the minute at hideous mobile rates.
I had one in highschool, and a 3a before that in high school - at the time no one else (at least in my school) used a laptop/equiv; I managed to be allowed as a dispensation due to dyslexia and illegible handwriting. The keyboard on the 5 was a vast improvement over the 3a, as well as the OS. I did quite a lot of programming directly on it - I remember OPL being one (only?) of the languages built in - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Programming_Language
My mother came to visit me recently, bringing my 5 back - unfortunately it looks like I left the batteries in all those years back and they leaked, so it's likely dead.
In rooted phones, or sideloaded since it no longer satisfies Play Store security rules, given that many Linux syscalls aren't officially supported on Android.
I clearly didn't, since I'm arguing with you about everything after the comma in another thread. Why are you avoiding the question? Did you make a mistake bringing up root and just don't want to say so?
You don't need to side-load termux; it comes from an app store. And I can't think of any case where you would need root, so I'm curious why you even mentioned that.
You seem to have ignored half my comment; per your standards this means I am entitled to insult you and then ignore your claims. (Which I'm going to try and avoid because it's impolite, but I wanted to take a moment to both call out hypocrisy and that you seem to be ignoring every single question about what rooting has to do with anything.)
Anyways, yes, I can read, have spent a good deal of time on that exact page, am intimately familiar with sideloading (and rooting, if that were in scope), understand what an app store is, and maintain that Termux is best installed from an app store (F-Droid) rather than being sideloaded (though grabbing APKs straight from GitHub and sideloading them isn't that bad as a second option). I would suggest that if everyone appears to misunderstand you, then the most likely options are that 1. they understand you just fine, or 2. you need to communicate better. FWIW I think it's the former.
Feel insulted as much as you like, by suggesting to use FDroid, you clearly ignored the part of my comment where I mention the situtation regarding Play Store, NOT ANY OTHER KIND OF STORE, capice?!?
And you did it yet again, doubling down on the rooting part, missing the or.
Personally I find Python vastly overrated and nowhere near as easy as its proponents claim.
I think Python looks like an easy, simple, clear language if you grew up with Unix and C derivatives. I didn't. I am older than that, and when I was a teenager, Unix was a vastly expensive OS for high-end workstations. I never saw a physical Unix machine until I was about 17 and didn't get to try one until I was 20. (An IBM RT-PC running AIX 1.)
I come from an era of simpler, clearer OSes and languages, more user-focused and less aimed at developers. I preferred BASIC, Fortran and Pascal to the curly-braces family of languages.
I only wrote very simple programs in OPL in the early 1990s, but I found it much easier and more productive than Python, then or now.
I didn’t have any OPL manual but there were a few short examples in the regular user guide somewhere. I can’t count how many times I read those few pages trying to glean more secrets about OPL!
This was also MY start to programming. I won a Psion 3c when I was 12 or 13 and built shareware apps for it. I did my work experience at Psion's HQ in West London when I was 15, became a software engineer, director of engineering, startup founder, exited that startup, blah blah, venture capital investor today. All from programming on my Psion (and Acorn computers).
I adored my Psions. I used a Sienna for years and a 5mx for much longer than is probably reasonable. I used an original psion netbook (not an upgrade series 7) until a lightning storm fried it :( probably still be using that thing. I miss the UI/UX.
Really pleased to have a play with this--I've so often read comments that the agenda, the calendar, on this thing was better than almost anything since, it was interesting to go and have a look. I can see the point, the year view is really good in a way that my current calendar (fantastical) doesn't quite match.
BTW, most of this interface was possible because of the external keyboard and even though it used the traditional UI elements like top text menu items with drop downs and modal dialogues (basically a windowing desktop system). The interface was very well optimized for keyboard shortcuts and navigation.
With our current high resolution displays we use our fat round fingers as pointers and information density suffers. That seems to be the reason they're not used. (Windows mobile used stylus as pointer to solve this problem and keep the common windowing desktop paradigm).
You don't necessarily need a full keyboard, even a handful of physical buttons and controls can help a lot as found in the newer form factor of 'gaming-focused' handhelds. It would be interesting to try and develop a productivity-focused UX for that sort of portable hardware.
My dad had one, I really loved the form factor, with that keyboard that would somewhat slide out when you opened it. Nice keyboard as well, looked less like a toy than competition
Best keyboard in any pocket device of any form, ever. And I have tried pretty much everything, from both sides of the Atlantic and other continents too. This is not hyperbole, but a simple statement of fact.
Wow. I have the Psion Series 3 DOS emulator files someplace in hopes I'll be able to run them on some kind of portable MCU some day... This takes me back, and I wish we hadn't lost this kind of device (and yes, I know about the Planet devices, and their Android-based hardware).
The Psion Revo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Revo) had the same software and OS, and a way better display. It was also smaller and lighter. But, sadly, neither the storage nor the battery were removable, so unless you had a way to transfer data from the device (via IR link), it was only a matter of time before all your work was in danger of being lost.
I had used Palm Tungsten T before Revo, so I was quite used to the idea of backing the thing up daily over serial cable. And there was some linux package that among other things exposed the Revo's filesystem as an NFS server (it was slightly before FUSE), which was kind of a neat way of transfering files back and forth.
Everytime I see these wonderful old Psions I just wish someone would make something similar to the Pinephone Keyboard attachment but for Iphones (or Samsungs, Pixels, etc). Or, to stay more faithful to the original, the Boox Palma!
Recently discovered the Pomera DM250. Closest thing I've seen in form factor to a Psion in an off-the-shelf gadget. Unfortunately, it's just for writing. Has no other apps.
Some of the recent Chinese brand 8 inch and 7 inch laptops also look like a potential contender. Just worried about reliability with them.
As somebody always having used Palm devices, has anybody here used both and can compare their relative advantages?
I remember being amazed by the tons of shareware/freeware available for Palm OS, but the OS itself definitely peaked at around version 4 (or maybe the early Palm OS 5/ARM devices).
In comparison, Symbian often felt clunky, but also much more modern in that it was built for persistent flash storage and multimedia, which always felt like an afterthought on Palm OS.
> As somebody always having used Palm devices, has anybody here used both and can compare their relative advantages?
Psion devices have a physical keyboard. It sounds trivial but this was a huge advantage. Psion's software quality was very, very high. The "Agenda" organizer from the Psion 3 and 3a is still regarded today as one of the best calendar programs ever designed.
(Their hardware quality, while still good, was sometimes not quite as good. The hinge on the Psion 3 range is well known for breaking, and damaging the display ribbon cable which runs through it.)
I had a Psion 3a - it fit in my back pocket and was strong enough it didn't break when I sat on it. I carried it everywhere and used it as my main device for taking notes in meetings - the combination of form factor and a usable keyboard was great.
Then I lost it and got a Psion 5 as a replacement. Despite the keyboard and software being way better, it was just that little bit larger and heavier so that I didn't carry it everywhere. It lived in my bag, not my pocket, so in the end I used it less.
So I switched to a Palm V, which was a wonderful light form factor and looked fabulous, but I found I didn't really use it at all, except as an address book. The lack of a physical keyboard made it basically useless for my main purpose.
In the end, I ended up with an ultra-lightweight Sony Vaio PCG-505 laptop, ran FreeBSD on it, added a Ricochet radio modem, and never looked back. Even 27 years later, I still think the PCG-505 form factor looks good, and at 1.3kg it weighed the same as today's lightest Macbook Air.
This same emulator was also given to the MAME project, and is included in versions of MAME 218 and later, should you wish to run this locally. It works great.
The physical keyboard is king! For a long time I was looking for a modern alternative.
The 'GPD P2 Max' comes close and for me hits the sweet spot of offering a small size while not deviating too much from a comfortable typing experience, but it has a fan and I wish the battery lasted longer.
Got mine in 2017 from their Indiegogo launch and as a previous 5mx user in the 90s how could I not?
Sadly they never updated the OS so it's not really much use now. The inability to make some android apps flip to landscape was also a little frustrating.
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[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 182 ms ] threadSeriously though this looks fun. I had a Palm Pilot for a while and then a Treo, and the physical keyboard was such a delight.
The PSION Series 5 and 5mx - Let's take a look at how PSION arrived at these little marvels! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IAe2hA760
I used mine to take notes in university classes because I couldn't afford a laptop and it worked great. The keyboard was a bit small, but big enough for touch typing. The built-in office programs made it a productivity beast and the compact flash slot meant I had a whopping 16 MB of storage which held several hundreds of documents and files.
After owning such a useful and charming little machine was sad to see Psion leave the hardware business and turn EPOC into Symbian.
How much did a regular laptop cost back them vs that Psion?
I remember the Psion series 5mx price was about half the cost of a laptop. The sales clerk in the electronics store tried to convince me to buy a Palm device instead, but I had seen a Psion series 5mx while in Europe and knew what I wanted.
I had an IBM R30 before that in ~2000 and recall it being ~£1500 as well.
Laptops weren't cheap!
My mother came to visit me recently, bringing my 5 back - unfortunately it looks like I left the batteries in all those years back and they leaked, so it's likely dead.
My grandfather gifted 12-year-old me his 3c, when he upgraded to a BlackBerry.
I used OPL [1] on that Psion to write my first ever line of code.
Here I am now, a professional software engineer, 20 years later. Who’d have thought it :)
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Programming_Language
Better still, one that could run on modern phones.
That comma really breaks English parsing in certain individuals.
https://github.com/termux/termux-packages/wiki/Termux-and-An...
Anyways, yes, I can read, have spent a good deal of time on that exact page, am intimately familiar with sideloading (and rooting, if that were in scope), understand what an app store is, and maintain that Termux is best installed from an app store (F-Droid) rather than being sideloaded (though grabbing APKs straight from GitHub and sideloading them isn't that bad as a second option). I would suggest that if everyone appears to misunderstand you, then the most likely options are that 1. they understand you just fine, or 2. you need to communicate better. FWIW I think it's the former.
And you did it yet again, doubling down on the rooting part, missing the or.
So whatever dude.
I think Python looks like an easy, simple, clear language if you grew up with Unix and C derivatives. I didn't. I am older than that, and when I was a teenager, Unix was a vastly expensive OS for high-end workstations. I never saw a physical Unix machine until I was about 17 and didn't get to try one until I was 20. (An IBM RT-PC running AIX 1.)
I come from an era of simpler, clearer OSes and languages, more user-focused and less aimed at developers. I preferred BASIC, Fortran and Pascal to the curly-braces family of languages.
I only wrote very simple programs in OPL in the early 1990s, but I found it much easier and more productive than Python, then or now.
I didn’t have any OPL manual but there were a few short examples in the regular user guide somewhere. I can’t count how many times I read those few pages trying to glean more secrets about OPL!
https://github.com/google/wuffs/blob/main/doc/note/hermetici...
I loved this device and usability was top notch!
With our current high resolution displays we use our fat round fingers as pointers and information density suffers. That seems to be the reason they're not used. (Windows mobile used stylus as pointer to solve this problem and keep the common windowing desktop paradigm).
https://pine64.org/documentation/Phone_Accessories/Keyboard/
Some of the recent Chinese brand 8 inch and 7 inch laptops also look like a potential contender. Just worried about reliability with them.
As somebody always having used Palm devices, has anybody here used both and can compare their relative advantages?
I remember being amazed by the tons of shareware/freeware available for Palm OS, but the OS itself definitely peaked at around version 4 (or maybe the early Palm OS 5/ARM devices).
In comparison, Symbian often felt clunky, but also much more modern in that it was built for persistent flash storage and multimedia, which always felt like an afterthought on Palm OS.
Psion devices have a physical keyboard. It sounds trivial but this was a huge advantage. Psion's software quality was very, very high. The "Agenda" organizer from the Psion 3 and 3a is still regarded today as one of the best calendar programs ever designed.
(Their hardware quality, while still good, was sometimes not quite as good. The hinge on the Psion 3 range is well known for breaking, and damaging the display ribbon cable which runs through it.)
Then I lost it and got a Psion 5 as a replacement. Despite the keyboard and software being way better, it was just that little bit larger and heavier so that I didn't carry it everywhere. It lived in my bag, not my pocket, so in the end I used it less.
So I switched to a Palm V, which was a wonderful light form factor and looked fabulous, but I found I didn't really use it at all, except as an address book. The lack of a physical keyboard made it basically useless for my main purpose.
In the end, I ended up with an ultra-lightweight Sony Vaio PCG-505 laptop, ran FreeBSD on it, added a Ricochet radio modem, and never looked back. Even 27 years later, I still think the PCG-505 form factor looks good, and at 1.3kg it weighed the same as today's lightest Macbook Air.
What I like the most is that it uses regular batteries. I can put new batteries in and play Infocom adventures if I wish, use the inbuilt programs.
Unlike my early gen iPod Touch which does ... almost nothing now
The 'GPD P2 Max' comes close and for me hits the sweet spot of offering a small size while not deviating too much from a comfortable typing experience, but it has a fan and I wish the battery lasted longer.
https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/gemini-pda
Got mine in 2017 from their Indiegogo launch and as a previous 5mx user in the 90s how could I not?
Sadly they never updated the OS so it's not really much use now. The inability to make some android apps flip to landscape was also a little frustrating.
I wish that the handheld form factor had more options, but it seems that market is just too niche and otherwise dominated by tablets and phones.