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Ask HN: Any tips for juniors and new grads in this job market?

11 points by tabigarasu ↗ HN
Would it be a terrible idea to pursue "unskilled" labor until the market improves, while attempting tech side hustles and building portfolio projects in my areas of interest? I only have a year of combined experience (including an internship) mostly in "full stack" web dev, which I'm not really a big fan of at this point. I'll take whatever I can get though, even if just temporarily until I'm able to switch domains.

What worries me about this move is getting stuck and the potential gap in my resume. I've met so many people who "temporarily" became Uber drivers and ended up stuck in the gig economy for years. If none of my side hustles work out, I'm assuming I'll need some impressive personal projects to make up for the gap in my resume. That or just lying and hoping I get away with it. But if I don't find anything in the next ~6 months, I won't have much of a choice, will I?

10 comments

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vunderba
It's hard to tell from your question but since you mentioned "new grads" then I'm going to assume you have a bachelor's in CS. With a compsci degree + a years worth of professional experience I would definitely be applying to whatever you can (Dice, maybe Cybercoder if that's still a thing, etc).

I'd probably steer clear of those "Instant Applications" on LinkedIn. When the bar to apply is that low, they're just going to be flooded with noise.

Working on side hustles and applying for more full time work are not mutually exclusive pursuits, so why not do both?

dustingetz
i’m sorry that you’re in this spot, you need to grind it out, get that first job start your career and your life will be forever different
hnthrowaway0328
Get all your connections and ask for an interview. Connection is the only sure thing nowadays unless you are really good.
idontwantthis
Hackathons are great networking opportunities. Personal connections are the best way to find a job.
bruce511
Picking up shifts in a unskilled post is fine for bringing in some cash (and perhaps necessary.)

But your full-time job right now is to get a job in your field (which at this point in your career means "tech".) You might start in support, or testing, or something like that, but you want to get your foot in the door.

Naturally there are a LOT of people in the market right now, so you want to stand out from the crowd. If you understand that this is primarily an exercise in marketing and not tech, then you'll be on your way. To get a job you "sell yourself", so you can't just rely on a CV.

Be creative. Be bold. Be proficient (in that order). Convince "me" (ie an employer) that this is the best opportunity they have. Stand out from the crowd.

Good luck.

JustARandomGuy
> If you understand that this is primarily an exercise in marketing and not tech, then you'll be on your way

A solid gold insight right there. I graduated into a bad economy as well (Millennial into the 08 recession) and what got me hired was not my honors GPA or dual major or any other academic achievement. I got hired because of my side project hosting a JSON API that offered some very simple data. I was able to talk about it during an interview and pretty much my passion for it got me hired.

Another alternative is to get into an open source project and offer to do some "developer evangelism" type work. Code up examples, documentation, write up blog posts - great way to get your name out there.

keb_
I would like to point out that side projects and open source work is more useful as a new grad seeking employment than a junior.

In my experience (as a junior 8ish years ago), companies were not interested in my projects or open source work at all, even when it pertained to the same domain. I'd say if you want to work in open source to make yourself more hireable, to pick a high visibility project that companies may already know (like WordPress, Redis, React, etc.).

paulcole
Make sure that you are likable, friendly, and fun to be around. Ask good questions, be polite, and reliable.
dtnewman
1) Get your resume in order. I'm going to assume that you are in the US, in which case, as a new graduate, your resume should be 1 page long (rules vary in Europe and elsewhere). Having reviewed thousands of resumes, here's what stands out: clean, concise, and no grammatical errors or typos (if you make mistakes on the most important 1-page doc you'll ever write, then what does that say about how careful you'll be when writing code?). This is a one-page document (at this point in your career) that you have complete control over and it sums up your life, so get it right. This means having someone review it. Don't put any photos in. Avoid colors (especially bright ones). No need for a summary of who you are at the top. Have a friend look it over for mistakes. Most people think that they need to make their resume stand out with colors and gimmicks, but as a hiring manager, I've seen this way too many times to the point that I'm jaded. What stands out is a clean resume that communicates effectively. Oh, and always upload/send resumes as a PDF.

2) Applying to jobs by filling out forms online is going to be mostly fruitless. You will occasionally get bites, but even as a senior engineer, I've found these to mostly be wastes of time. Instead, find companies that you are interested in. Then, go on LinkedIn and find engineering managers, team leads or even senior engineers and reach out to them with direct messages. Everyone thinks they need to reach out to the CEO or CTO, but they get 1,000 messages a day. If you reach out to someone lower down, they will typically have enough sway to get you in front of the people making hiring decisions.

3) Even for the best engineers, there's a randomness and luck component to interviews. The best way to practice for interviews is to actually do them. Try to spread a wide net and get as many interviews as possible, even for companies you aren't interested in working for. The experience will get you in the groove. And remember, it's a numbers game. You might be great at LeetCode, but get that one question about heaps that you can't answer. Just learn from your mistakes and move on.

4) If you can, try to appear employed. For better or worse, people will see you as more desirable if you are employed. This might mean setting up an LLC called Foo Software, giving yourself a role of Software Engineer, and then bidding on projects on Upwork. You don't have to lie about what you are doing if anyone asks (and most won't ask for details), but this gives you something to put on your resume and some experience.

5) Everyone on HN talks about having amazing side projects on your github account. Take this with a grain of salt. I find that almost no one ever asks or looks at my github account when making a hiring decision. There's a small but vocal group of people who hate standard interviews and therefore like to say that looking at projects should be the metric by which you judge candidates. There's merit to this philosophical argument, but in practice, most companies just don't care.

6) As far as "unskilled labor", if you need the money, go for it. But I don't personally think that it will help you to have it on your resume.

7) There's lots of remote jobs today and by all means apply, but you will have the biggest leg up if you apply to jobs that want people in person and you are willing to go in to the office.

Jugurtha
dtnewman and bruce511 made a lot of the points I was going to make to get the job, only better. I'll emphasize again on your very full-time job now is to get a job in the field. If you implement that, you will get it.

When you get the job, here are a few pointers that will help you ramp up:

Understanding codebases:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19924100

Testing pipelines, scaffolding, issue templates:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26591067

Making the most out of meetings and leveraging your presence:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22873103

Product development:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22827841

Giving a damn:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20356222

If I disappear, what will happen:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25008223

Consulting, understanding the problem your "client", who can be your manager, has:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24972611

On taking notes. When you're told something, or receive a remark, make sure to make a note and learn from it whether it's a mistake, or a colleague showing you something useful, or a task you must accomplish.. don't be told things twice or worse. Be on the ball and reliable:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24209518

Product, architecture, and impact on the team:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24503365

Onboarding new hires to a codebase, what if it were you, improve code:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22860716

Tips to learn from videos:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22710623

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22723586

Communication with the team:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21598632

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21614372

Reduce information asymmetry, template for taking minutes of meetings to dispatch to the team:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21427886

More meeting notes. Reply to a person who had trouble talking in corporate meetings:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20323660

Communication, alignment:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24177646

Useful things for the team and product that add leverage:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21808439

Management involvement as a spectrum:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22715971

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