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Ask HN: How to revoke AI consent from Meta/IG?

35 points by rpastuszak ↗ HN
Every time I try to do it, the site crashes or I have to start from scratch. (I have +20 years of experience as an engineer, from which almost 10 working with privacy and I have no clue how to do that.)

If you managed to do it, can you please tell me how. I want to spread the message.

25 comments

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skilled
Objection forms,

https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/6359191084165019

https://help.instagram.com/contact/233964459562201

As for what to put inside the objection form, you can say something like:

> I do not consent to the use of my data for AI training, improvement, or personalized services.

and in the additional information box, you can put something like:

> If my objection is not honored, I will cease using all Meta products indefinitely.

There should be absolutely no reason for Meta not to honor your request.

pests
That doesn't seem to work in the USA?

I don't think any of this matters in the end FWIW, starting to sound eerily similar to the chain posts my uncle shares on FB telling them they don't have permission to use his photos....

jkaplowitz
There is generally no requirement for consent for Meta to engage in these activities in the USA, unless they promise in some document like their privacy policy to honor the presence or absence of consent for US users.

The situation is very different in Europe, for example, where they very much do need consent or one of a few other legal grounds that probably don’t apply to most of their AI training purposes.

lloeki
> There should be absolutely no reason for Meta not to honor your request.

There should be absolutely no reason for Meta to not have "Accept" and "Reject" buttons right there instead of a mere "Close" button in this UI and then jumping through hoops to post forms: https://postimg.cc/R3m6bSMk

skilled
For sure! This is all a clever trick on their part. Default opt-in and announced through in-app notifications. Total scum.
lloeki
With such contrast and all, I didn't even notice that "right to object" was a link til late after I took that screenshot. I don't even know if it links to the form page.

Also note that "Privacy Policy" has caps making it stand out a bit more, but not "right to object".

This is also a modal so the moment you open the app is probably a moment where one wants to do something else so is very prompt to dismiss without reading, and then it vanishes forever.

rpastuszak
Evil by Design by Chris Nodder (iirc) is an interesting book about this subject-using the seven cardinal sins as a dark UX pattern framework.
latexr
> If my objection is not honored, I will cease using all Meta products indefinitely.

I don’t think that’s an efficient threat. Too easy to make and they know almost no one will follow through. Either don’t say anything or check your local laws. In the EU you can mention the GDPR, the Data Protection Authority in your country, and “remind them” the law has a thirty-day grace period to comply. Show your research and a willingness to follow through with something which has a change of affecting them.

rpastuszak
OK, so I can’t access that for unless I either:

- give consent for 3rd party tracking

- pay €10

Regarding their language, yeah, this is just a scare tactic. Remember how 95% of Facebook users on iOS opted out from tracking after the iOS 14.5 update?

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[dead] danielmarkbruce
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rpastuszak
I’ve moved away from most services offered by Meta ages ago (as well as Google to a large extent), but I can’t ditch IG overnight (getting there tho).

Edit: I don't use IG to browse (it’s cringe), just to upload my drawings (always a bit later than on open web).

Some of the people who follow me don’t know how to use rss or ActivityPub. Moving people away from these services takes time. Most of my friends are patient enough to, say, have installed signal instead of WhatsApp because I refuse to use it, but again - it’s hard to do this overnight.

awaythrow999
Why can't you ditch IG? How does it differ in its power to addict users compared to the other garbage Meta peddles?
rpastuszak
I’m trying to redirect people to the open web versions of my profiles, e.g. a activitypub/rss/indieweb. It’s just taking a while.

I don't use IG to browse (it’s cringe), just to upload my drawings (always a bit later than on open web).

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lalaithion
Honestly, there is no way. Even if you do manage to fill out their opt-out forms, they will successfully opt you out of most internal AI training, but metadata will still be trained on and AI projects which are either too important or unmaintained will still use your data. In ten years there will probably be a lawsuit about it and you’ll receive 10 dollars in damages. Oh, and this isn’t unique to Meta, and I have no special knowledge about Meta to inform this. This is just true about all large tech companies.

The only way to be sure is to not use their products.

stderrout
The way is to stop using user hostile products and encouraging others to use more open platforms. In Metas own words and many like it by using products/services you are consenting to being product for companies interest as they see fit.
rpastuszak
Precisely my approach, and with decent success so far, but for some of my friends this needs to be done in smaller steps. In reality, it’s hard for them to move away overnight since they got tricked into using those tools first. Getting there though.

In other words: I just need a month+ to finish setting up my pixelfed instance after my day job, clear my IG accounts and put a version of this image there instead: https://x.com/rafalpast/status/1778797698302234905.

rpastuszak
Yeah I ditched most of their products ages ago (anything besides IG), and I’m not an active user, just poster (art). But moving my friends away from this crap just takes time. And they’re really patient with me already (I don’t want to alienate people, but I want to help them make the right choice. A slower approach has worked with WA → Signal for instance)
muzani
Meta pays billions of dollars for data/privacy violations, year after year. It's just a tax to them.

https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fi...

All the big tech companies break some law, but Meta is indeed unique in that it happily breaks privacy and data laws and then pays the fine, despite being ordered not to do it again.

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awaythrow999
Creat awareness across all your social media the same way you did here.