Wrong. Absolutely wrong. You are being lied to by the media who claims that Musk is greedy and wants money from Tesla. That is false and deliberately misleading, Musk doesn't get money, he gets shares which means he gains control, this is what this is about. The reality is also more interesting.
Musks pay package can, by definition, not be larger than the worth of the company.
Sure, no doubt that the monetary worth is important. But it completely misses the larger context. This is a struggle about power. Musk wants shareholders to give him back the company he sold.
Tesla right now is struggling, a lot. The Cybertruck, the only recent new model, had a slow start and has suffered from a recall. Competition right now is extremely fierce, Tesla is by no means unique in the market any longer. That is the situation in which Tesla is asking shareholders to give him control over the company. I am sure you agree that is a far more interesting story than "evil billionaire want's company to give him billions".
>All car companies, including Toyota, are currently 'struggling'.
Tesla won't exist in a decade if they continue on current trajectories.
Their situation is completely non-comparable to Toyota, VW, Hyundai or any of the other larger car makers. None of them have it easy, but none of them are in the situation Tesla is in, just look at their recent financials results.
They had 18% revenue growth last year, 50% the year before that, 70% the year before that, and 28% the year before that. By comparison Toyota’s revenue is barely growing: https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/tm/revenue/
You can’t calculate derivative of a discrete function. That’s why we talk about trends. These tend to include more than last 2 data points, because of noise.
The weak derivative does not have much to do with any trend of a function at a point. The value of weak derivative at any given point is not even defined. The weak derivative of a quarterly earnings function is zero, regardless of what the earnings actually are. I hope you realize how silly you are being here.
There was an 16mm film presented at my elementary school. It was a Martian documentary on their observation of Earth, circa late 60's probably. Never found it online.
It marveled about the dominant lifeform there and all it created, consuming everything and expanding. It was highly diversified in size and color. It followed one lifeform to where it rested, and it disgorged "parasites", which from the fuzzy overhead view were humans and their dog staggering around in comparison to the elegant motion of the lifeform.
And? This doesn't change the fact that the statement "Musks compensation is worth more than what the company is worth" fundamentally shows a severe lack of understanding about the situation.
>“You are being lied to by the media”
The framing is completely misleading. Again and again the headlines are about money and not the actual thing Musk gets in return.
I am not arguing the market cap. I am pointing out that Musk doesn't get Money, he gets shares. And pretending this isn't about power over the company is completely misleading.
The shares he is gaining now he can't sell for a certain amount of time.
This is about him wanting control over the struggling company back.
That context also makes the situation far more interesting, because it is the sole reason why shareholders would even vote for his proposal. Because it is a vote about him as a leader.
I don't understand why this is surprising. The shareholders already voted to do this once, and it was revoked by a judge in Delaware for obvious political reasons. Why is it surprising that the same people who voted for it the first time are voting for it again? It even got the same percentage of approval votes as the first time it happened.
> I don't understand why this is surprising. The shareholders already voted to do this once, and it was revoked by a judge in Delaware for obvious political reasons
So they are giving Musk ~8% of their current market cap.
I guess the logic from shareholders is "if we don't approve the package, the stock is likely to drop more than 10%".
I don't know exactly how the vote was carried out... but I do wonder if the vote was manipulated in any way.
The funny part is the original case that got Elon's pay package revoked was that the board was around the board not being independent enough. So the same board going & reapproving a pay package doesn't seem like real remedy for the case against Elon's pay package.
> Judge Kathaleen McCormick threw out Musk’s pay package in January, ruling that the board members had been insufficiently independent from the Tesla CEO while negotiating the package.
If this stock starts being liquidated at any significant volume, the stock will also definitely drop. Even if these holdings are to be doled out & possible exercised, it sure seems like the company could hire & keep a lot of great people with this stock holding.
But the shareholders voted for it again. If the board and shareholders all agree to pay the CEO a share of their money, who some judge in delaware to disagree.
> If this stock starts being liquidated at any significant volume, the stock will also definitely drop. Even if these holdings are to be doled out & possible exercised, it sure seems like the company could hire & keep a lot of great people with this stock holding.
Yeah but maybe not Elon, and I believe based on this vote the shareholders fear losing him.
If he illegally appoints a board of yes men who remain faithful to him, then it doesn't matter how the board votes: it's not a legal & legitimate board looking out for the company as a whole.
That case has already been decided. And the board re-voting doesn't change that outcome.
Maybe you missed this but it was the shareholders who voted for it again. Not just the board members. The concern was that even though the shareholders were fully aware of the package and voted for it maybe they relied on the expertise of the board to make sure it was a fair package.
It basically says that Elon doesn't get anything unless the stockholders at least 2x their investment, and Elon gets approximately 10% of the company if stockholders 10x their investment. Each tranch had revenue and EBITDA requirements as well, so it was not possible for Elon to just pump the stock. He achieved all the milestones: the company grew significantly, the stockholders 10x-ed their investment.
The judge thought that the stockholders were not properly informed about the board in 2018. Now in 2024, not only have they been informed but they reelected Kimbal Musk as well.
BTW this deal was the most stockholder-friendly deal ever, because Elon only got his compensation if the stockholders got rich. I think it was a good thing, the first of its kind. If they made a new package like this (+10% for another 10x from here), I would vote for it.
Also worth mentioning that his compensation package was worth 2.3B in 2018 when the shares were separated.
Also worth mentioning that everybody found the milestones ridiculous and unachievable in 2018.
> Also worth mentioning that everybody found the milestones ridiculous and unachievable in 2018.
Who is "everybody"? Few months back I manage to find some old articles that basically said somebody said that, but none of those articles ever reported any names.
I think Musk should get the pay package. It's an obscene amount of money, but the shareholders voted for it, and it would be wrong for the court to stand in the way going forward.
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[ 1.5 ms ] story [ 163 ms ] threadMusks pay package can, by definition, not be larger than the worth of the company.
So yes, he also wants the money.
Tesla right now is struggling, a lot. The Cybertruck, the only recent new model, had a slow start and has suffered from a recall. Competition right now is extremely fierce, Tesla is by no means unique in the market any longer. That is the situation in which Tesla is asking shareholders to give him control over the company. I am sure you agree that is a far more interesting story than "evil billionaire want's company to give him billions".
If aliens landed today they would surmise that cars were the dominant species, closely followed by dogs. As has been the case for 50 years or more.
In other words, 'struggling' is a relative term.
Tesla won't exist in a decade if they continue on current trajectories.
Their situation is completely non-comparable to Toyota, VW, Hyundai or any of the other larger car makers. None of them have it easy, but none of them are in the situation Tesla is in, just look at their recent financials results.
Tesla share price might not be, but the company itself is fine.
If the trends of their last quarter continue they won't be fine, that much is painfully obvious.
They had 18% revenue growth last year, 50% the year before that, 70% the year before that, and 28% the year before that. By comparison Toyota’s revenue is barely growing: https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/tm/revenue/
Disastrous.
Every integrable function has a weak/strong derivative.
It marveled about the dominant lifeform there and all it created, consuming everything and expanding. It was highly diversified in size and color. It followed one lifeform to where it rested, and it disgorged "parasites", which from the fuzzy overhead view were humans and their dog staggering around in comparison to the elegant motion of the lifeform.
It was pretty deep for a fourth grader.
Stocks give you both control and equity, and can be exchanged for money. Don’t know which part of that simple fact does the media lie to us about.
>“You are being lied to by the media”
The framing is completely misleading. Again and again the headlines are about money and not the actual thing Musk gets in return.
Market cap is $560b. That’s how much the company is worth. Like it or not.
This is about him wanting control over the struggling company back.
That context also makes the situation far more interesting, because it is the sole reason why shareholders would even vote for his proposal. Because it is a vote about him as a leader.
Welp.
What obvious political reasons?
I don't know exactly how the vote was carried out... but I do wonder if the vote was manipulated in any way.
> Judge Kathaleen McCormick threw out Musk’s pay package in January, ruling that the board members had been insufficiently independent from the Tesla CEO while negotiating the package.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jun/14/e...
If this stock starts being liquidated at any significant volume, the stock will also definitely drop. Even if these holdings are to be doled out & possible exercised, it sure seems like the company could hire & keep a lot of great people with this stock holding.
> If this stock starts being liquidated at any significant volume, the stock will also definitely drop. Even if these holdings are to be doled out & possible exercised, it sure seems like the company could hire & keep a lot of great people with this stock holding.
Yeah but maybe not Elon, and I believe based on this vote the shareholders fear losing him.
That case has already been decided. And the board re-voting doesn't change that outcome.
Here's the 2018 compensation plan: https://ml.globenewswire.com/Resource/Download/edfcfa2e-bcb6...
It basically says that Elon doesn't get anything unless the stockholders at least 2x their investment, and Elon gets approximately 10% of the company if stockholders 10x their investment. Each tranch had revenue and EBITDA requirements as well, so it was not possible for Elon to just pump the stock. He achieved all the milestones: the company grew significantly, the stockholders 10x-ed their investment.
The judge thought that the stockholders were not properly informed about the board in 2018. Now in 2024, not only have they been informed but they reelected Kimbal Musk as well.
BTW this deal was the most stockholder-friendly deal ever, because Elon only got his compensation if the stockholders got rich. I think it was a good thing, the first of its kind. If they made a new package like this (+10% for another 10x from here), I would vote for it.
Also worth mentioning that his compensation package was worth 2.3B in 2018 when the shares were separated.
Also worth mentioning that everybody found the milestones ridiculous and unachievable in 2018.
Who is "everybody"? Few months back I manage to find some old articles that basically said somebody said that, but none of those articles ever reported any names.
Just like nowadays the general opinion is that Tesla FSD is at least 5 years away or will never work.