Ask HN: Tell me your stories of taking lower paid work to be happier

97 points by pcloadletter_ ↗ HN
I'm on the cusp of going back to a job I really enjoyed that paid pretty well, but I was lured away by my current, high-paying job (for the money, prestige, etc.).

I'm getting cold feet because of the money, but I'm fairly sure I'd like the day-to-day much better than my current job.

So tell me -- what are your stories?

110 comments

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I left a well-paying job that was toxic, but I got to build interesting and challenging things with a lot of freedom. I took a 30% pay cut to join a smaller company that was known for its great culture and owner. One of the best decisions of my life.

8 years later, just last month, I closed on buying that second company from the founder.

Obviously, no one knows the future or could plan this stuff out, but in my experience, prioritizing your overall life over purely your financial life is worth it. We have a weird obsession with "more money, more good", and I haven't found that to be inherently true. It's true to a point, but like a bell-curve, there's a downturn and diminishing returns at some point. And that point is different for everyone.

It's been a while, but I quit the aerospace industry in 1992 for a lower paying Unix (SunOS) job. Aerospace was hidebound, people refused to do anything new. Not because the new methods were risky, but rather because in 1965 they'd sworn to the Air Force they'd done the best job possible. Anything new put lie to that.

The security requirements were also anxiety inducing to me.

I've missed some me things, but mostly it's been nothing but up since then.

I was working flooring making 12/hour, left it to work 25k/year salary in software with plenty unpaid overtime. Very good move long term
Was this with the goal of making more in the long term, and was it a drop in annual income at the time?
The goal was that I didn't want to be lugging carpet in the snow & enjoy programming. Annual income was comparable, being average height & under 120 pounds made it difficult to work 40/week
When I started my career I worked in an intense role for two years. So intense that I quickly realized such intensity was not sustainable, and I immediately pivoted into a role that I knew I could do with my eyes closed.

It's felt like I don't have a job for the past decade. In those ten years I've barely felt any stress, have read hundreds of books, mastered several hobbies, and started a family. Would I trade that for more money? I'll let you guess.

I left the electronic warfare industry even though I'd helped build a program from nothing to a product bringing in $100M (probably billions since I left) because I didn't want to be in the war industry any longer where the entire legacy of my lifes work could be measured in destruction. Worked as a software engineer in industry for a while, gradually moving up in salary, then went into contracting. Contracting seemed too uncertain in the rural area I lived in, so though it was bringing in a lot of money I took a job as a software engineer in a college CS department, supporting various research projects. The college job was dead end, there were almost no other people doing anything similar to me, and there was no path to advance (unless I wanted to get a PhD, no thanks, didn't want to be a slave for 4+ years at even lower pay), but the work was very interesting. So I stayed with it for 20 years. Maybe I worked on some things that will change the world, maybe it was all futile. I wasn't happy about the pay, but some of the benefits were great, I have some minor hopes of getting some future income from patents, some of the profs were not great to work with, but some were and the work in general held my interest. I learned a lot, though it was difficult, every single project was very different from the last project and often required learning new skills. I built a Beowulf cluster, electronically herded cows, did a lot of work in wireless sensor systems, help design and build a smart watch for medical applications, and much more.
rapjr9 - I commend you for using your talents to help the world instead of hurting it. From one human to another, thank you.
The next day, raging hordes of enemy troops breach the walls, we are all killed, the end.

(There is always another point of view.)

Why? He was building tools. Tools can be used to defend or to attack.
The tools I built were used to defend aircraft. So they were protective. But the aircraft have missions, which are often destructive, but not always. The company I worked for got bought by Lockheed Martin, which very definitely makes weapons of destruction. So that was a factor in my leaving.
'In accepting an honorary degree from the University of Notre Dame a few years ago, General David Sarnoff made this statement: "We are too prone to make technological instruments the scapegoats for the sins of those who wield them. The products of modern science are not in themselves good or bad; it is the way they are used that determines their value."

That is the voice of the current somnambulism.

Suppose we were to say, "Apple pie is in itself neither good nor bad; it is the way it is used that determines its value." Or, "The smallpox virus is in itself neither good nor bad; it is the way it is used that determines its value." Again, "Firearms are in themselves neither good nor bad; it is the way they are used that determines their value." That is, if the slugs reach the right people firearms are good. If the TV tube fires the right ammunition at the right people it is good.

I am not being perverse. There is simply nothing in the Sarnoff statement that will bear scrutiny, for it ignores the nature of the medium.'

Since you didn't provide the author, it's Marshall McLuhan, from Understanding Media. Here's a link: http://topologicalmedialab.net/xinwei/classes/readings/McLuh...

For the record, I disagree with McLuhan, but perhaps I don't fully understand his argument.

If you disagree with the statement, "guns don't kill people, people do," then you agree with McLuhan's maxim of the medium being the message and that there is no such thing as an unbiased tool.

You can use a hammer to screw and a screw to hammer, but the biases for their respective uses are embedded in their affordances. McLuhan argues that the same can be said for any tool, whether it's a binky or a bomb.

I commend them for following their conscience, but I would also commend someone for going to work for the defense industry because they thought it was the best way to protect people. I don't think there are any easy moral answers when it comes to defense.
I was mostly OK working in defense. Good money. Until Reagan took office. His nonsense spooked me. The politics of the day drove me away. No more gravy train. Trading peace of mind for money and job security.
Ironically, I'm thinking about perhaps moving to the electronic warfare industry, as with the continuing war nearby and the major impact that EW and drones have on the lives and deaths of infantry defending me and my family, I feel some sense duty that this could the most valuable practical contribution I can make, bringing more impact than going to the trenches myself (which is also an option, me being in the reserves).
At the time I joined, 35 years ago, they were very willing to teach new people. Schools don't teach electronic warfare so they were used to doing training and people taking a year or more to get up to speed. A background in physics helped a lot, as well as knowing electronics. There are a variety of kinds of jobs in the industry though, from marketing to R&D to computer simulations to management to handling secret documents, and more. Having a tolerance for strong language helps also, I worked at times with some Marines doing microwave systems. EW systems are some of the most closely held secrets so expect a very thorough background check.
My last role was Director of Ventures at a rising org out of Seattle. The work was rewarding and impactful, but as a non-profit I found myself spending less time working with founders and more time fundraising. It was very stressful as fundraising for a non-profit is neverending work.

I left for a manager role that saw me with a lower title, but never having to worry about fundraising ever again. I have less responsibility, a lower title, and more red tape, but my stress level and work/life balance made the move 100% worth it.

Did paid OSS for 3 years, best years of my career. Great team mates, great code, everything done for a good reason, no managers, no politics, nothing.

Only problem was I made only barely enough to cover my expenses so wasn't getting ahead in life but it was still worth it.

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I have worked for non profits and social good companies for the last 5 or 6 years. I make about 75% of what I did as a manager and 50% of what I could be making now.

Economically, my space is not in a good space right now. I have been considering going back to a "normal" job for a bit more income security.

After decades in the software industry, I decided to just get a factory job within bicycling distance of my house and only do programming as a hobby.

I can't take the hype cycle anymore. First it was big data this and big data that, now it's all AI. It's always about something other than crafting sensible solutions to real problems.

A breaking point for me was getting scolded to figure out how to apply LLM technology for a sewage utility contractor. Like, WTF.

I'm not too moral to take money for stuff people want but don't actually need. But it gets old. I'm tired. Now I can do little projects that I enjoy after work.

Maybe they'll go somewhere. Maybe they won't. They're not my real job anymore so it doesn't matter.

I can understand software work can be tiring. But I can't imagine it being so tiring I'd rather do a factory job (maaaybe if it was a bread factory or lego factory or some such). How is it?
I'm not trying to sell anybody on it, but it was certainly the right choice for me. Maybe it's just that I'm, burned out, in my forties, and I would rather make widgets all day than learn another framework.
35 and feeling the same.

This contract working as an linux engineer bank only allows me to work 24 months without having to take three months off.

Working 15 years none stop since the age of 17, time to rest for a bit.

I hope to work in a old persons retirement home next year. So much wisdom and knowledge that year by year goes and is forgotten, I would love to hear past time stories.

Good for you!

Majority of people choose to maximise money/prestige. I'm pretty sure you end up happier than them.

From experience, counting small stock (10s of pieces) in a warehouse allowed me to zone out into a high fidelity mental landscape.

At one point I was doing my job and vividly hallucinating what I was going to do in dwarf fortress later that evening.

Honestly one of the trippiest experiences I’ve had and a sign that I should probably be applying my mental abilities to something else, which I did eventually.

There is a comedian who would tell a story, years ago, about how they knew they needed to move on from their job after they earned 'employee of the month' for three months in a row, without even trying.
> From experience, counting small stock (10s of pieces) in a warehouse allowed me to zone out into a high fidelity mental landscape.

I wonder if this is what writing code for the feds feels like

Have a similar story.

Was a front-end developer, then tried to go full-stack and it was just too much to deal with. I worked at a huge corporation and the team I was on was full of the "rock star" types - like you said, always chasing the latest thing. I finally had to get out when someone said, "Bruh, you still use Angular? Pfffft, SVELTE is where its now, you're practically a dinosaur!" Same thing, it became so consuming trying to know the coolest thing instead of just being able to build something robust, accessible and easy to use. I look back now and just think how bizarre that mindset is.

I moved into accessibility and love it. I'm further up the chain and work closely with business owners and designers which is really fun to work with and I get to indulge the UI/UX side of my brain now.

I'm doing the same thing. I do some fun dev stuff on the side and have a few freelance clients I work with to keep a nice side income coming in. I have a lot less gray hair now and actually enjoy having free time to decide what I want to work on and when I want to work on it. My wife says I hardly ever complain about my job now so I got that going for me, which is nice.

How did you get into that? What's the job title?

If you don't mind sharing I'd love to know more.

>> How did you get into that?

It was from networking and timing. I was on a team that was being dissolved because of some internal politics and at the time I had been talking with some people in the UI/UX department about some openings they had for designers or UX researchers. By chance a director heard I was poking around and wanting to move over and reached out and said they were going to need to fill some backfill roles and asked if I ever considered accessibility.

After meeting several people on the team, I thought it would be a good fit and a role I could use a lot of my development background as well, so the learning curve wouldn't be so steep. The final weeks of my team being dissolved was basically spent being onboarded onto the accessibility team so when I moved over, it was a really smooth transition.

>> What's the job title?

I'm an accessibility engineer. We do mainly two things - consulting and assessments. Its a great place for me as a developer because I get to work with designers and developers so I'm in the middle of all the action and interface with everybody on the team. Its been a great move and its an area that is becoming super important so demand is only going to increase in the future.

I love your username -- it's a terrific reference, and ties into what you do for work as well!
> I can't take the hype cycle anymore. First it was big data this and big data that, now it's all AI. It's always about something other than crafting sensible solutions to real problems.

I've thought the same thing. So many people in software just pretend to chase after some meme and being around them makes me really cynical

It's just buzzword this buzzword that to some people. Who gives a shit about solving problems when you can just shuffle a couple buzzwords around and pretend to do shit?

After 2020, it feels like more and more people are full of shit and only care about money

> After 2020, it feels like more and more people are full of shit and only care about money

Something had definitely changed. But I am not sure how much of that is me.

Yes! And so many of the products sound so _dull_ to me. They're so excited to talk about how this technology will revolutionize some niche sector... As I got older, my response more frequently became, "Who cares?"

When I think of what would bring me back to dev, I always think of jobs supporting some kind of science work, like weather or GIS.

I took job that I thought it was going to be more fulfilling (for about 30% less than my current), and ended up regretting it massively... In fact I'm still here, but my work team is an absolutely hellish group of individuals, and my boss is the most crooked individual I've worked with so far.... so In retrospective, I've should picked the other job, the problem was that it was incredible specialized and involved working in radar stations on top of remote mountains, who the hell wants to do that??? Anyway, I guess I'll get something better at some point... Work climate is just so weird right now for devs....
> the problem was that it was incredible specialized and involved working in radar stations on top of remote mountains, who the hell wants to do that???

would be pretty cool if i didn't have kids

> working in radar stations on top of remote mountain.

Interesting story.

I worked in a bike shop a number of years ago. Guy came in and I helped him find some stuff for a long distance ride he was going to do. I noticed he had a black baseball hat with the initials "NJTTTF" sewn into the front of it and I had no idea wtf it meant so as he was checking out I asked him. He said, "You don't want to know." and I said, "I really do." and he said, "Its boring, seriously." and after some more bantering he said, "It stands for National Joint Terrorist Tracking Task Force." I just stood there confused, then asked him, "So you're CIA or NSA and track terrorists? That's pretty cool." He then said, "Not exactly NSA or CIA, but I do work for the government and yes, we do track terrorists. You ever hear about Weather Mountain? I was stationed there. Conspiracy nuts love it, but its not as cool as they say. I was in a windowless room with a sealed door listening to radio chatter and analyzing radar signals. Since the room was sealed, we had to open the door every 30 mins because we would run out of oxygen otherwise. It was hot, it was miserable, and the work was pretty boring when you get right down to it."

I asked him if he was still working for the gov and he said he was, in a different capacity. I asked him what he was working on and he said a few different things, but his favorite was cryptography. I told him I was fascinated with cryptography so he gave me a few books to read and then we parted ways.

Of course after he left, I went right to google and couldn't find a single thing on the task force but did find a bunch of conspiracy stuff on Weather Mountain, just like he said. Very interesting meeting and a very interesting guy for sure.

As former military intelligence, I have a hard time believing someone in that line of work would wear a hat advertising which task force they worked on. Or that such a task force would even allow such hats to be made.
it was govt disinformation to undermine the conspiracy theories about Weather Mountain, which theories were too close to the truth.
Anonymity for reasons.

I did this just a few months ago. Worked in the Blockchain industry, earned around 240k in my local currency, which is a lot for what I did. The company got bought, would have gotten an additional 300k (more or less) after 2 years in bonus.

Instead, I joined a company more aligned with what I want to do and become, and the people I want to surround myself with. I now get paid just 140k in my local currency, so I take around 100k a year pay cut.

My wife will start working soon, so we will top up our household income again.

But, I realized, I don't have money problems. My needs are met, and what makes a difference now is my emotional and physical health, and my friends and people I see every day. Filling up my account doesn't help anymore, and the opposite, it made me more stressed every day.

I switched to a lower paying job because the high-paying one was toxic and I had already squirreled away a good chunk of money. I don't regret it. I think of my lower TC as a no-a*hole tax that I happily pay.
I used to work for a SV company you've heard of. They treated me very nicely (and I them too I hope!) but it was too big an organisation which brought all the usual problems.

Now I work part time for a small local Eastern European company started by my high school friends. We're around ten, I learn a lot, and I have potential for a lot of impact.

My real hourly take-home pay is 20% of what I used to make and I work less than half the hours, so I make less than 10% of what I used to make. And I'm happy with this trade-off! I get to work with very smart people on things that matter in a relaxed environment. Couldn't be happier!

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Sounds like the plot for one of the characters from "Jutro ce promeniti sve".
Worked at Facebook from 2016 - 2020. I couldn't handle how flippant the leadership was about profiting off of genocides, Trump, and the degradation of everyone's mental health.

Now I work for my county government as a computer programmer. I make 20% of what I would've been making at Facebook if I hadn't left (60k vs 300k) but I don't regret it at all. My work helps real people in my community instead of siphoning off bits of attention here and there from strangers all over the world.

In what way was the leadership profiting off of Trump?
I imagine both Trump mania and Trump-induced rage were massive drivers of traffic for Facebook.
Andrew Bosworth (FB's blathering sociopath-in-residence) said Trump ran “the best digital ad campaign I’ve ever seen” and they even had marketing people embedded with the campaign to help them run more effective ads.

The final straw for me was in October of 2019 when Zuck had a closed door meeting with Trump and then "randomly" the next week announced that politicians are now allowed to lie in ads on facebook. Hmmm, I wonder who would disproportionately benefit from that policy change??

I have done this twice in the last 12 months.

1. I left Microsoft to join a startup and took a >100k pay cut.

2. The startup was acquired, and I quit the parent company to go teach. Again, taking a sizable pay cut.

I’m happy with all the decisions (to join and to leave). After having a high salary for a few years, the happiness piece becomes far more important.

I was an internal Tech Recruiter for almost 10 years focused on pre-IPO tech companies. Hit the lotto a couple of times but after the most recent company (which was an awesome place to work) IPO'd, COVID, and just general career trends in that role, I burned out.

Then I spent 6 months doing nothing and decided to learn to code. It currently pays nothing because after a year, I'm only just on the cusp of starting to apply. I enjoy coding a lot more than recruiting, but my educated guess is that I'd enjoy entrepreneurship more than working at a company. Either way, it's exciting and challenging in a way that recruiting never was.

I have 15 YOE and today I make what I did when I was in Year 2. I have the same employer as Year 2, but I relocated from US, PNW to Canada, Ontario. This resulted in a drastic reduction in pay. After taxes, I make 42% less than what I made before. I make a little more than what I earned as a fresh-out-of-college new hire.

While I'm annoyed about the money, I have an improved quality of life in Toronto. My wife and I were raising kids alone in Seattle whereas we have a village here to co-parent with. I also found much more cultural identity and roots here in Toronto compared to Seattle. I also prefer the climate and politics of Toronto more than PNW. I certainly miss the hikes, but we make that up with non-stop beach trips.

If I can achieve the same financial security here in Toronto that I had in Seattle, I would never move. Unfortunately, this has been difficult to achieve, but I'm confident I can get there.

> we have a village here to co-parent with

As a parent with small kids, this really piques my interest. Could you share more details about this? Are you referring to a tighter community; neighbors that you actually know and interact with?

We're moving to the Midwest soon and hope to experience more of that compared to the where we are now.

I would do that if Idid not have real life responsibilities, mortgage, kids.

I could live even on basic income, my family not.

This. I would have been happy to stay in academia forever as a DINK person. Once there was a kid, that option evaporated.
Not yet, but I'm trying to leave retail marketing web development to work at a local water utility. It's difficult to find a position I'm qualified for, though. If it pans out, it'll be a 25-30% drop in income, but with the benefit of a short commute, good long-term job security, and the peace of mind that my work helps keep the community alive and in clean water.

My best to all those out there pursuing peace of mind and happiness.

Just ask any investment banker ever.
Probably my every job in life was "lower paid" and no it didn't mean it was easier and chilled.
Joined Amazon as an SDM and left in 3 months. Took a 30% pay cut, looking back after 3 years, couldn't be happier. At Amazon, felt like I was in a Squid Games like environment, with the Leadership Principles thrown in your face to justify any and all actions. Switched to a healthcare related company, where people seem genuinely driven to build products and care about your colleagues.
Definitely a good move but out of the blue (after ten years) our old startup group is getting back together and the CIO is creating a role for me. Seems they won't take no for an answer.

However, I hired into my current job for stability and learned there is no stability despite repeatedly being assured that it was. The startup will yield about five-plus years of work until we sell (options). The pay bump will be nice.