"Draining the water reserves" isn't a requirement of growing, that just might be what's happening in that region. There are many places with an excess of water.
I suppose next the claim will be the land used for those avocados should have been left to the other animals.
I would extend this to its logical conclusion, and claim that conscious life isn't ethical. After all, any land you use, any water you drink, will be at the expense of another creature, stealing the fruits of a plant, or the nuts of a tree, etc. As a conscious entity, you're the only one that can choose, so choosing to not live is the only ethical choice. Is this the conclusion? I suppose something within the realm is technically accurate.
It seems that Mexico can't be called a nation-state anymore as it no longer seems to have a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. It may claim to have such, but I'm not sure if the cartels pay any attention.
"two U.S.D.A. inspectors had been illegally detained at a checkpoint run by community members. In Michoacán, which stretches from the mountains west of Mexico City to the Pacific Ocean, some Indigenous communities have set up security patrols to defend themselves against criminal groups."
So it was not the drug cartels, but anti-cartel militas suspecting the inspectors to be connected to the cartels? Or what was their motivation?
Just protecting their local turf/state?
“Community members”… color me skeptical. Anyone standing in the way of the cartels is killed (plus their family and neighbors). Usually these checkpoints are setup looking for rival cartel members and shaking down locals. I suspect the inspectors refused to pay or failed to offer to pay to pass through.
No, you're wrong. There are really community defense organizations and communities that have set up checkpoints against cartel violence. It's well known, well documented and there's even a link above to one particularly well known case of these organizations fighting the cartels. Some of them do eventually get infiltrated by gangs or turn into something similar, but not always. The idea that absolutely nobody stands in the way of the cartels is not only false but also paints an ignorantly defeatist narrative about their power.
Even the apparatus of the state in Mexico could stand in their way, or crush them, but due to a complex multitude of factors, it doesn't and appears weaker than they are though it's in fact stronger and in a certain way the senior partner in the tacit arrangements cartels and formal authorities create.
This sums it up.. it always comes down to ‘California’s Water War.’
CA Ag is devastating. There is so much more to this story.
[..]Today, groundwater in Michoacán is disappearing and its bodies of water are drying up. Lake Zirahuén is polluted by agricultural runoff. Nearly 85% of the country was experiencing a drought in 2021, and experts project that the state’s Lake Cuitzeo, the second largest in all of Mexico, could disappear within a decade. In part because of the conversion from pine to avocado trees, the rainy season has shrunk from around six months to three. So profound is the drain on the region’s aquifers that small earthquakes have newly become commonplace. The 100-mile avocado corridor has, in effect, become the only live theatre of what is often referred to as “California’s water wars”.
It’s unclear whether the avocado can survive this changing climate. But in Michoacán, the more pressing question is whether its residents can survive the avocado.[..]
But in this case the "local state" is legal and has officially banned Avocados. So why should those people have any buisness with US inspectors? They shouldn't be there?
But maybe it is a connected case, of an area where there are Avocados, but local militias want to get rid of them.
I fail to see any endgame that does not involve the legalization of most drugs. In the meantime, the cartels are using the endless cash from drug sales to establish more revenue streams and embed themselves deeper into society. Pablo Escobar died over 30 years ago and there are still enclaves in Medellin where he is revered due to the largess he was able to provide. Once you have a local population on your side, what can the police or military do? Not that there is much any police or military force can do against a well-funded guerilla insurgency.
At a certain point, we have to give up the absurd fantasy that we can stop people from using drugs we don't like. We've had several generations to try, and plenty of money and liberty-bending laws to help in the goal, and what has that effort gotten us? Drugs have gotten cheaper, criminal enterprises have gotten stronger, our civil liberties have been degraded and we left ourselves wide open to the fentanyl epidemic.
Plus, we're stuck paying out the ass for all the prisons we've filled up.
Avocados are legal yet it doesn’t spare them from cartel control and violence.
Organized crime has a hold in Mexico for many reasons, a critical one being that wages and purchasing power are so low there which foster corruption and reduce state power.
The discussion of whether the legalization of some drugs are good for our society should be had independently of whatever the cartels are doing.
But the major motivator for crime in mexico, is the easy money with drugs (especially because the alternatives are poor).
So yes, even with all drugs legal, there will still be organized crime for prostitution and weapon smuggling, etc. but the crime organisations won't have bigger budgets then the police and army anymore
From Wikipedia:
"The Organization of American States estimated that the revenue for cocaine sales in the U.S. was $34 billion in 2013. "
The principal revenue source of all the major cartels is the drug trade, by far. They are diversifying but their real power to suborn the apparatus of the state and its officials in Mexico is backed by the revenues from narcotics. These organizations simply wouldn't be this pervasive or powerful if they lost that. Avacados don't buy all those officials and even if they did, it would be on a much more local, less dangerous scale.
So in brief, your argument about the drug trade and the continuing illegality of drugs not being directly relevant to the cartels and their activity is wrong.
I've been living down here for nearly two decades by the way and watching these things, so just a bit of contextual knowledge of how the situation works.
Yes, drug use and addiction is a medical issue and should be handled as a medical issue leaving no room for criminal groups to profit. That said society must educate its members about recreational drug use and its consequences. Education not laws should be used to stop people the use of recreational drugs. If murder or robbery happens normal laws should apply but if drug addiction is the cause those crimes should be treated like crimes committed by people with a mental disease.
I think true education begins when we start being honest. Our society and laws want to pretend there's a difference between alcohol and 'drugs' (and maybe weed gets its own deal too) and as long as our starting point is that delusional, people are never going to be able to make good decisions. In the meantime, we let alcohol flow like water and literally lock human beings in cages for a decade if they happen to prefer a different mind-altering substance.
Recreational drugs can be highly addictive and lead to a loss of motivation for other activities, which is a key reason they are so dangerous, even beyond direct adverse health effects.
While all drugs carry risks, those with more noticeable negative effects, like alcohol causing sickness and hangovers, may be somewhat less prone to severe addiction than drugs that provide a "cleaner" high. However, alcohol is still highly addictive for many despite the negatives. Drugs that can cause fatal overdose even with a single use are the most dangerous of all.
When drugs are legalized, at a minimum there needs to be strong education efforts so people can understand the real effects and risks. For those who still choose to use potentially lethal drugs, there could be legal protocols for ensuring their affairs are in order such as a requirement to prepay their funerals.
That will happen but we will still need to wipe cartels and other organized crime out.
I see a future where either militaries or vigilante citizens release swarms of drones with facial recognition that either seek out the faces of gang members or the visible markers that they wear like face tattoos or biker patches.
Organized crime won't go away totally but they won't be able to operate openly with such impunity.
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[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 73.0 ms ] threadWhat system has ethical consumption, with the ability to support the numbers we have now?
I suppose next the claim will be the land used for those avocados should have been left to the other animals.
I would extend this to its logical conclusion, and claim that conscious life isn't ethical. After all, any land you use, any water you drink, will be at the expense of another creature, stealing the fruits of a plant, or the nuts of a tree, etc. As a conscious entity, you're the only one that can choose, so choosing to not live is the only ethical choice. Is this the conclusion? I suppose something within the realm is technically accurate.
So it was not the drug cartels, but anti-cartel militas suspecting the inspectors to be connected to the cartels? Or what was their motivation? Just protecting their local turf/state?
Did they know they were US avocado inspectors?
Even the apparatus of the state in Mexico could stand in their way, or crush them, but due to a complex multitude of factors, it doesn't and appears weaker than they are though it's in fact stronger and in a certain way the senior partner in the tacit arrangements cartels and formal authorities create.
This sums it up.. it always comes down to ‘California’s Water War.’
CA Ag is devastating. There is so much more to this story.
[..]Today, groundwater in Michoacán is disappearing and its bodies of water are drying up. Lake Zirahuén is polluted by agricultural runoff. Nearly 85% of the country was experiencing a drought in 2021, and experts project that the state’s Lake Cuitzeo, the second largest in all of Mexico, could disappear within a decade. In part because of the conversion from pine to avocado trees, the rainy season has shrunk from around six months to three. So profound is the drain on the region’s aquifers that small earthquakes have newly become commonplace. The 100-mile avocado corridor has, in effect, become the only live theatre of what is often referred to as “California’s water wars”.
It’s unclear whether the avocado can survive this changing climate. But in Michoacán, the more pressing question is whether its residents can survive the avocado.[..]
But maybe it is a connected case, of an area where there are Avocados, but local militias want to get rid of them.
At a certain point, we have to give up the absurd fantasy that we can stop people from using drugs we don't like. We've had several generations to try, and plenty of money and liberty-bending laws to help in the goal, and what has that effort gotten us? Drugs have gotten cheaper, criminal enterprises have gotten stronger, our civil liberties have been degraded and we left ourselves wide open to the fentanyl epidemic.
Plus, we're stuck paying out the ass for all the prisons we've filled up.
Organized crime has a hold in Mexico for many reasons, a critical one being that wages and purchasing power are so low there which foster corruption and reduce state power.
The discussion of whether the legalization of some drugs are good for our society should be had independently of whatever the cartels are doing.
So yes, even with all drugs legal, there will still be organized crime for prostitution and weapon smuggling, etc. but the crime organisations won't have bigger budgets then the police and army anymore
From Wikipedia:
"The Organization of American States estimated that the revenue for cocaine sales in the U.S. was $34 billion in 2013. "
So in brief, your argument about the drug trade and the continuing illegality of drugs not being directly relevant to the cartels and their activity is wrong.
I've been living down here for nearly two decades by the way and watching these things, so just a bit of contextual knowledge of how the situation works.
While all drugs carry risks, those with more noticeable negative effects, like alcohol causing sickness and hangovers, may be somewhat less prone to severe addiction than drugs that provide a "cleaner" high. However, alcohol is still highly addictive for many despite the negatives. Drugs that can cause fatal overdose even with a single use are the most dangerous of all.
When drugs are legalized, at a minimum there needs to be strong education efforts so people can understand the real effects and risks. For those who still choose to use potentially lethal drugs, there could be legal protocols for ensuring their affairs are in order such as a requirement to prepay their funerals.
I see a future where either militaries or vigilante citizens release swarms of drones with facial recognition that either seek out the faces of gang members or the visible markers that they wear like face tattoos or biker patches.
Organized crime won't go away totally but they won't be able to operate openly with such impunity.