Ask HN: How do you deal with mental illness?
I also tend to be mildly bipolar. I'm not diagnosed, but I've known myself to be cyclothymic since 13. I treat this as a spiritual and personal challenge. It only affects me 10-15 days out of the average year, and it allows me to have experiences that most people never will, so I regard it as a blessing, though a mixed one.
I'm extremely sensitive to light, sound, and drugs. I don't use recreational drugs, and "social drinking" is out of the question because a 5-year-old could drink me under the table. (I love beer, but I probably drink 1-2 per month.) The high school cafeteria was torture, because lunch was the main social context of that era, and I wanted to be a "normal kid" but the intensely loud noise rendered me a social cripple.
My most beautiful but also damaging mental quirk, however, is probably hypergraphia. I don't think I have OCD, but I have an intense compulsion to write. I'm good at it. I can pound out 2000 words of coherent English prose in half an hour. Unfortunately, it can be a bit dicey. When I had a blog, I'd inevitably find myself posting inappropriate personal confessions on it... hence the reason I do not have a blog. I've ruined relationships with brutally honest emails. I also used to have a "flame habit"; I was addicted to the flow state I could attain by launching offensive/provocative discussions on Internet message boards (that was before I came here) and watching hundreds of people react. Some of these online misbehaviors have been tied to my real name but, worse yet, the "troll" era has cost me an immense amount of time that could have been better employed.
If I could divert the hypergraphic tendency into a more precise (and, frankly, often more useful) form of writing-- code-- I would be able to go from a 5-6 hacker to a 8-9 in a matter of weeks. Unfortunately, I haven't refined this mental quirk to such a degree yet. Does anyone have any suggestions?
What mental challenges have you faced, and how have you dealt with them?
93 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 169 ms ] threadand check out that downvoting! apparently this place is rife with crazies. butthurt ones...
Who is to say whether an exhibited mode of behavior deemed by the observer to be irrational is the product of a mental disease or the rational course of action given a more complete understanding of the world?
For your writing, I'd suggest continuing it, but putting it into some kind of "buffer" so that it doesn't get immediately posted to your blog. Then trim it down to the best, most polished entries, and pass it through some friends to review before being published. I think PG does something like this for his more significant/weighty essays.
I wish I could do that. I always found writing for my English classes was incredibly difficult, especially as the length requirements grew.
Writing was my best talent (coughwascough) before i found programming. I believe there's some inherit link between the two.
Sometimes, it really is waste and you have to hit the deadline, but other times it can make your piece a lot more interesting.
Any of the writers in this community have advice to give to this fellow?
The other surprising thing about trolls is that they tend to come from very high-achieving and wealthy families. My father's an a high-ranking civil servant, my parents make $150k/year, and I was the "poor" in my troll group.
I always trolled ethically, though. No racism, no attacks on real-life non-participants except public figures who really deserved it, and no more misogyny than would be appropriate to the 18-year-old self that was the basis for one of my favorite troll personalities (ironically, named after a synonym for "thoughtful"; ok, I'm outed).
Is it really that much surprising? Trolling would fit well with the stereotype of "spoiled rich kids". No offense meant.
None taken. It's true.
i'll show you. i optimized a classic for you.
lord of the rings: evil guy makes magic ring, loses it, good guys get it and he dies when they eventually destroy it.
It was Gollum that died. I'm not sure anyone considers him a "good guy".
clearly, i forgot to add comments
Read The Elements of Style to find out how novel writing works. Using fewer words is just as much a part of writing as using less code is part of programming.
Eliezer’s point that careful word choice is essential to good writing applies just as much to novels as any other format.
We can also go off on a tangent, and talk about how Strunk & White was published right at the end of the Victorian era, when WWI essentially wiped out the Romanticism ideals of that era. Something similar happened in America after the American Civial War. Mark Twain's writing became darker, gritter -- clearer -- when compared to his earlier works. Post-Civil War, no one wanted to trumpet the glories of war. It took the Europeans another seventy years to catch up. (My little excursion falls apart because both Strunk and White were Americans).
I could compare this to martial arts training. Newbies are aweful to look at. They have so much wasted motion. Economy of movement suggests mastery of the art form. Masters condense sophistication into simple movements, fully aware of their potential. They do not merely have simple movements.
My main point though, is that there are other skills in writing novels not found in Strunk & White. Good expressive technique does not make a good story. I may agree that Elements is worth using. I don't agree it is the only guide you should study.
Writing SHOULD be concise and readable. The difference for novel writing is that you should know what parts of the story are important and write just enough to accomplish your purpose. In the case of Tolkien, it was the journey and environment that were important, thus the deluge of words.
"For Sale: Baby shoes, never worn"
Damn, that's a problem I've always wished I had. I write too, but not much. I find that writing and coding to be very different activities, at least for me, so I'm not sure you could channel that energy into coding. From the sound of it, your writing compulsion sounds like it is more a matter of putting down your thoughts rather than creating something, that is, its not very cerebral. Coding, requires a filter between you and the keyboard, so this sounds like it would be a major stopper.
It does sound like you could make a nice political columnist/author: something like Limbaugh or Franken.
Perhaps you could write content about things you want to learn with how you went about it, what you did, what you learned, and relay all that to other people.
Get a blog, don't do any personal blogging, but just blog about your programming adventures. I love to read such stuff because I get to enjoy the results of other people's experimentation!
The key is to understand the root of the problem. Some of the coworkers would be diagnosed with general anxiety disorder and the like while AS was the painfully obvious condition (though anxiety, etc are very common in those with AS).
Read this book ASAP: The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood http://www.jkp.com/catalogue/book.php/isbn/9781843104957
I had a social growth spurt recently (girlfriend dumped me, health problems went away, much better job, developed the will to learn social skills previously neglected) which has been wonderful, but also a huge spiritual challenge for reasons that are too personal to get into.
Mental illness in general is a very complex topic, unlike headache, flu or any other disease; it is not something the regular person (the healthy person) understands. Those who have never suffer from any form of mental problem tend to think that it is a philosophical problem; they think that by thinking too hard they can somehow come up with an explanation of a solution.
I also have to agree that Hackers community seems to be one with a high ratio of people with some sort of mental disorder. I have suffered from depression myself and all through my career many of people I met had some sort of mental problem.
Again your calling a debate on a subject most people don’t even understand on a public forum, I don’t think this is productive to people with real issues. I have been there I know what I’ am talking about.
People post neuro articles to this site all the time. I'm not going to get into the debate over what mind is, but the brain is essentially a computer.
* see a psychiatrist and possibly get on a drug. Can be very helpful.
* see a therapist
* start a regular exercise program and stick with it. Huge benefit there.
* limit carb intake, especially simple carbs.
That's aside, of course, from the physical dangers: diabetes (or diabetes like symptoms), very serious weight gain. That also applied to all carbs, not just sugars but some carbs are worse than others (e.g. high fructose corn syrup, white bread) while some are better (brown rice, whole wheat).
When I had a blog, I'd inevitably find myself posting inappropriate personal confessions on it... hence the reason I do not have a blog. I've ruined relationships with brutally honest emails.
This makes me suspect that your itch is not writing per se but self-revelation. Have you tried taking up painting or sculpture or some other art form as a hobby, so that you can express your feelings in a way that gives you more plausible deniability, so to speak?
Or learn a conlang and make your inappropriate personal confessions in a language that only ten or twenty other people in the world can read fluently. :-/
I used to make up "alphabets" as a kid. As I learned more about linguistics and writing systems, I even got as far as making something vaugely like Korean script, where several sub-characters form one larger block character which all add up to one syllable. I wrote things in these alphabets, but never disclosed the meaning to anyone else. I never really got obsessive about it, though, but if I had a harsher childhood I have a feeling I would have written entire journals in it.
http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/mfneng/mind0.htm
"So what is wrong with you? Are you a freak? No. You are just human. And you suffer from the same malady that infects every human being. It is a monster in side all of us, and it has many arms: Chronic tension, lack of genuine compassion for others, including the people closest to you, feelings being blocked up, and emotional deadness. Many, many arms. None of us is entirely free from it. We may deny it. We try to suppress it. We build a whole culture around hiding from it, pretending it is not there, and distracting ourselves from it with goals and projects and status. But it never goes away. It is a constant undercurrent in every thought and every perception; a little wordless voice at the back of the head saying, "Not good enough yet. Got to have more. Got to make it better. Got to be better." It is a monster, a monster that manifests everywhere in subtle forms.
Go to a party. Listen to the laughter, that brittle-tongued voice that says fun on the surface and fear underneath. Feel the tension, feel the pressure. Nobody really relaxes. They are faking it. Go to a ball game. Watch the fan in the stand. Watch the irrational fit of anger. Watch the uncontrolled frustration bubbling forth from people that masquerades under the guise of enthusiasm, or team spirit. Booing, cat-calls and unbridled egotism in the name of team loyalty. Drunkenness, fights in the stands. These are the people trying desperately to release tension from within. These are not people who are at peace with themselves. Watch the news on TV. Listen to the lyrics in popular songs. You find the same theme repeated over and over in variations. Jealousy, suffering, discontent and stress."
Any of you remember the series of articles right after collapse back in early autumn of this year? There were numerous articles posted around here about fear -- whether to perservere with startups, or to cut your losses and wait until you're back on the upswing. Those were the times when all of these monsters come out of the woodwork. I had a lot of fun being able to see the manifestations of widespread panic ... even as my stomach was trying to eat its way out of my body.
If you can master this part of yourself, it is trivially easy to see what drives other people. It is more than social engineering. It is a hack relatively few people know about yet can give you great gifts. It is like a secret handshake when you recognize someone who has waded into the depths of his own psyche, and came back out for the better.
If you guys try these practices -- and it isn't limited to Buddhist meditation, either -- and get decent grip on yourself, I highly recommend going back and watching Batman Begins. Certain things takes on a different significance once you stop running away from your own fears.
For a different take, check out Anne Wise's "High Performance Mind" http://www.amazon.com/High-Performance-Mind-Anna-Wise/dp/087...
The former focuses on a form of meditation called mindfulness. It lets you be more present without the distractions of the monkey mind. It means that when you start coding, you don't easily follow the distractions that keep you from coding.
The latter focuses on the different states of mind, running the gamut from wakefulness all the way to deep sleep. You learn how to access each of those states at-will. There is a bigger emphasis on guided meditation (as opposed to mindfulness) and includes techniques on dealing with what comes up from the subconscious. The book includes both theory and practices, and is definitely hackable.
Both approaches complement each other, though both will require practice. If one doesn't work initially, I recommend trying the other. The resulting skill is worth the effort.
Whether you are practicing mindfulness or using guided meditation, I recommend timeboxing your meditation, either by getting a kitchen timer or using incense. Without timeboxing, it is unlikely you will be able to relax deeply enough -- some part of you will keep thinking there is something else to do. If you've never done this before, I'd start with 5 mins a day, work your way up to 10, then 30 mins. 5 mins of mindfulness practice is a very long time for someone conditioned to 30 second attention spans. The key is daily practice.
http://rapidshare.com/files/106778954/HIGH_PERFORMANCE_MIND.... http://rapidshare.com/files/106839635/HIGH_PERFORMANCE_MIND....
I'm pretty sure that mental problems of one sort or another are much more common than you would expect, but it's one of those things that it is still a taboo, so you never know how widespread it is. So you should know that you aren't alone at all. Almost everyone has to go through one or more major crises in their life.
As to how to move on I think you're on the right track - accept your mental state and whatever baggage you have and start working with it. Once you accept that you are what you are and that this is OK you are halfway there. Next make sure you have friends or family you can talk to. They'll tell you that they love you no matter what, and that if you were different you wouldn't be you.
Accepting who you are is much harder for you than it is for the people around you. Judging by your post it looks like you're well on the way to acceptance of yourself. I'm sure you'll be OK.
I'm posting this under a single serving account made for this purpose because I'm a regular cotributor here and don't need to have my personal life and problems all out in the open, but if you want to contact me let me know in the comments and I'll reply by mail.
1. Always send your stuff to a few friends before you hit the publish button.
2. Don't write inappropriate personal confessions. Invent a character, have them live the inappropriateness and call it fiction.
Edit: 3. Revise the shiz out of your work until it is good enough that others can enjoy reading it.
I wasted a lot of my youth and early adult years psychoanalyzing myself in order to learn and master myself, when going out into the world and participating and exploring it, having relationships with people, is the true path to self-actualization.
Extrospection is the path to enlightenment
Although It helped me a lot, i don't practice it anymore. But it's worth a try.
Good luck!
I've been battling the panic disorder for the last 7 years or so. PTSD for the last 15 and everything else since day 1.
I have one recommendation for you and it's cognitive behavioral therapy, aka CBT. It's less talking about all the stupid shit your parents did, and more about changing how you think about these particular issues.
I did my fair share of medications (nothing too major, ad's like effexor and zoloft and benzo's like ativan, klonopin and xanax) but I don't do any of them anymore thanks to CBT therapy and the growing understanding that everything is temporary. When you're facing down a vicious panic attack, considering a call to 911, I've found I can stop the entire process in it's tracks by simply acknowledging that this is all temporary and transient. Sounds so simple, but it's so very hard to do. Takes a lot of practice.
I've beaten the mild depression by forcing myself out amongst humans and participating with people socially. Really, anything that puts you out of your head.
My two secret weapons, beyond CBT therapy, have been marijuana and poker. Poker has definitely hardened me quite a bit, but more importantly it's helped me grow my own power base. Any activity that satiates ego is good for people like us.
Marijuana, counter intuitive since it typically promotes anxiety in people, has really kept me out of my head for the most part and definitely greases the wheels in terms of accepting my lot in life and the issues that I deal with day in and day out. It really is my Adderall. I can't wait for it to be decriminalized.
Finally, the biggest thing I did to change it all around was quitting smoking tobacco. That one single thing probably caused the biggest change out of all the things I've tried.
Anyways, hope that helps.