The Japanese system hasn’t and Mt Gox’s bankruptcy trustee issues have almost nothing to do with the presence of crypto and more to do with the presence of grifters taking advantage of the idea that something to do with crypto makes it administratively complicated
It should be noted that the American system also does not give FTX creditors this kind of windfall - under US bankruptcy law, their claims were effectively converted to dollars at the time of the bankruptcy, and they see no benefit from increased crypto prices since then. I'd assume this simplifies administration a lot, contributing to a faster resolution, but many FTX creditors are unhappy about it: https://www.wired.com/story/ftx-creditors-crypto-payout-reje...
Generally, you're not entitled to potential losses as a bankruptcy creditor.
Those creditors were welcome to sue the entity in bankruptcy for their potential losses, but that would involve demonstrating they'd have had the wherewithal to hold to the point of the gains they're claiming.
I do think that FTX creditors should not have profited out of the bankruptcy proceedings, either.
This is what initially happened with MTGox as well. The subsequent increase in value complicating things is a large part of why the MTGox resolution has taken so long. The original plan to reimburse the yen value of claims at the time of collapse was no longer a fair solution. The payout due now was proposed and voted on by the claimants. The process has been slow but very methodical, at each stage there were long periods where they gave claimants time to respond.
I, for one, would not like to be in charge of pressing the button that distributes several billions of dollars to thousands of different people without it fucking up. If someone is doing that this July you would hope that they have dotted all their Is and crossed all their Ts.
When the stock/crypto goes up 100% people will gladly take their profits and go on with their lives, instead of waiting for even bigger profits.
When the stocks starts its fall towards 0 people will do incredible mental gymnastics, clinging to any shred of hope that things will turn around and they will revert their losses, so it takes them much more time to get out of the bad investment.
I transfer it to people on the slowest method for 1st borns baby shower. I used it on furniture at Overstock.com while they allowed it. I gamble with it. I have donated with it.
For me and probably many others, when expediency isn't an issue, BTC works great.
I like to distinguish investing from speculating. Investing is putting money into a business which actually makes money. Speculating is buying something because you think the price will go up.
investing is not just that. its putting money where you expect the business to make MORE money in the future. if they dont, you dont make money in the end.
This isn’t the first time it happened. When MtGox went insolvent, the price of bitcoin tanked and they had enough cash on hand to replace everyone’s funds, but the lawyers said no because there wasn’t enough fees.
This whole thing should have been resolved years ago, I still get bankruptcy emails and I feel bad for the poor soul who has to waste his whole career fighting over who gets the remaining sliver of money instead of doing something productive.
> I feel bad for the poor soul who has to waste his whole career fighting over who gets the remaining sliver of money instead of doing something productive.
Returning money is the most productive thing a lawyer can do.
>>When MtGox went insolvent, the price of bitcoin tanked and they had enough cash on hand to replace everyone’s funds, but the lawyers said no because there wasn’t enough fees.
Which lawyers are you referring to that said "no because there weren’t enough fees"? Seems contradictory because lawyers at the time in 2014 had no idea that the value of the remaining digital assets would rise.
There are two main sets of legal teams in bankruptcy cases: the estate, usually represented by the court appointed trustee's legal team, and individual or groups of creditors who can afford legal representation.
The Trustee in this case wanted to sell everything and be done with the case, handling it as a standard fiat bankruptcy. I believe that it was only due to creditors with enough sway (i.e. whales who could afford their own legal teams) that pressured the Trustee to value the assets accordingly.
To your point, the consequence of the successful persuasion has resulted in a high number of billable professional services hours from all sides which has definitely been a drain on the estate and creditor wallets. However, anybody (else) implying that it was the [nebulous] "lawyers" who orchestrated an evil scheme to perpetuate their billable hours from the get-go is being disingenuous and/or lazily finger pointing, unless of course they have some evidence or sources to back their assertion up.
> being disingenuous and/or lazily finger pointing
This makes sense because confidently saying “it just sort of happened” is less nebulous or lazy. It is intellectually dangerous to attempt to connect decisions made by groups of people to either the people involved or their decision making processes.
Notoriously, the site developer wrote his own crypto code... in PHP... which you should never do, regardless, but especially in PHP (I recall some numerical limitation having to do with bit rotation and automatically-signed numbers at the time)
Do you have any professional experience using PHP? I have never in my life used another web development platform that requires me to install 3rd party patches like Suhosin to get to a baseline level of security
Right, but he didn't get hacked because of that, he got hacked because he's the sort of person who would make such a choice. He is just a bad developer and a bad person to have run a bank or anything significant really.
Well, the issue is that the bank covered everyone's losses at the time, from what I understand, but now all the account holders are asking for a share of this new booty that has been recovered.
Mt. Gox is short for "Magic The Gathering Online Exchange", and the site's focus was on virtual trading of cards for Magic Online rather than cryptocurrency.
According to the creator, it did. It just wasn't that popular and he switched to a different game, The Far Wilds, for a bit, then pivoted to bitcoin (with entirely different code).
The interview was in 2014 and edited with proof on wikipedia, so I'm surprised people still believe it wasn't a trading card site.
Payouts still have not actually started. It is long been theorized that BTC prices will crash when they do, since the market will be flooded with people trying to finally realize their USD gains.
A few thibgs to say for MtGox and its founder: they were a frontline casualty in crypto exchanges, demonstrating irrefutably how important security is. Not everyone got the memo, but many did.
Also, they have been pretty good at accepting blame and trying to fix what they could.
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[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 129 ms ] threadYou're out of luck if you haven't archived a registration or password reset email
Also probably out of luck regardless due to deadlines
says a lot about the two economies and their entire ethos
when it really makes it simpler
Those creditors were welcome to sue the entity in bankruptcy for their potential losses, but that would involve demonstrating they'd have had the wherewithal to hold to the point of the gains they're claiming.
I do think that FTX creditors should not have profited out of the bankruptcy proceedings, either.
I, for one, would not like to be in charge of pressing the button that distributes several billions of dollars to thousands of different people without it fucking up. If someone is doing that this July you would hope that they have dotted all their Is and crossed all their Ts.
The only proven way to make a killing in crypto is to be physically prevented from losing it, trading it, or selling it for ten years.
When the stocks starts its fall towards 0 people will do incredible mental gymnastics, clinging to any shred of hope that things will turn around and they will revert their losses, so it takes them much more time to get out of the bad investment.
For me and probably many others, when expediency isn't an issue, BTC works great.
Which is very well known in the crypto world with these two mantras:
This whole thing should have been resolved years ago, I still get bankruptcy emails and I feel bad for the poor soul who has to waste his whole career fighting over who gets the remaining sliver of money instead of doing something productive.
Returning money is the most productive thing a lawyer can do.
Which lawyers are you referring to that said "no because there weren’t enough fees"? Seems contradictory because lawyers at the time in 2014 had no idea that the value of the remaining digital assets would rise.
The Trustee in this case wanted to sell everything and be done with the case, handling it as a standard fiat bankruptcy. I believe that it was only due to creditors with enough sway (i.e. whales who could afford their own legal teams) that pressured the Trustee to value the assets accordingly.
To your point, the consequence of the successful persuasion has resulted in a high number of billable professional services hours from all sides which has definitely been a drain on the estate and creditor wallets. However, anybody (else) implying that it was the [nebulous] "lawyers" who orchestrated an evil scheme to perpetuate their billable hours from the get-go is being disingenuous and/or lazily finger pointing, unless of course they have some evidence or sources to back their assertion up.
This makes sense because confidently saying “it just sort of happened” is less nebulous or lazy. It is intellectually dangerous to attempt to connect decisions made by groups of people to either the people involved or their decision making processes.
It's too bad my original comment got slammed because PHP deserves the slamming IMHO
It's honestly not that impactful as people may think.
Note that BTC's last 24h volume was $15Billion (some of it is fake, but it's still alot)
The price reaction to this news proves it.
But the study is from 2021, maybe introduction of Bitcoin ETFs made things better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Bitfinex_hack
That was the original intent for the domain, but to my knowledge it was never launched.
According to the creator, it did. It just wasn't that popular and he switched to a different game, The Far Wilds, for a bit, then pivoted to bitcoin (with entirely different code).
The interview was in 2014 and edited with proof on wikipedia, so I'm surprised people still believe it wasn't a trading card site.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220811085644/https://www.gwern...
Also, they have been pretty good at accepting blame and trying to fix what they could.