Playing desktop style AAA games in the form factor of a smartphone just sucks, its awkward and clunky, unless you have a handheld cradle or controller mount.
Let's face it, doing basically anything in the form factor of a smartphone just sucks. For "consumption" devices they're absolutely terrible UX even for consumption, with literally their only selling point being that they're portable and fit in your pocket. A disheartening technological regression.
I don’t believe this. Most people really like apps, and there’s a reason why people revolve around their phones far more than their laptops now. Also, they have plenty of other selling points - like their camera, or calling other people, obviously.
Some things, like photography or phone calls, are great. Some are so-so, like web browsing. And some, like AAA Gaming, are not suited well at all. But on the inverse, calling people or taking photos on the desktop is not a well-suited setup either.
A mandatory, and painful reminder, that people deeply vested into technology are equally likely, and perhaps even more likely [1], to be delusional compared to the general population.
[1] People who have exaggerated confidence in their own intelligence, and thus implicit superiority, are often their own worst enemies.
I mean calling people on a desktop or laptop isnt' great, but at the same time I do it there way more often than a phone - Discord calls with friends, Teams meetings for work, etc.
I disagree, there's plenty of things I think a small form factor excels at.
Do I enjoy using Word on my phone to write a document? No. Do I enjoy writing texts and messages on my phone? Yes. Would I get my laptop out to write a text message or make a call all the time? No.
The fact it's portable and can fit in your pocket, is the exact point and I can navigate the entire device with two thumbs.
I'm not entirely sure you disagreed. It sounds like mostly what you value is indeed the portability ("I don't want to get my laptop out"). But the actual experience of writing a text on your laptop is better (at least for me). If I ever need to write a long message or many messages, I do get my laptop out because the hassle of that is outweighed by how much faster I can type on a computer than on my phone.
The key point is that, if you were already at the laptop and could message (iMessage, Discord,Slack), would you switch to a phone to tap out the text with your thumbs or keep typing on the keyboard. We all know the answer.
The only advantage of mobile devices is their size, mobility, and convenience. For actual winning (development, drawing, design, modeling) you want a larger screen and better UI.
It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive but perhaps with the current options for mobile devices on the market, they are. To this day, I still miss the Blackberry keyboard. And while I'm on this triggering topic, I also miss QNX, a real-time operating system that won't prioritize Candy Crush over a 911 call. Don't get me started about the removable batteries. I'm about to have another graveyard of Apple chargers in my drawer when I replace my last Lightning devices with USB-C. And in 2008 you didn't need a surgical lab clean room to replace your phone's battery. I could throw my blackberry against a concrete floor like I'm goddamn Billy Mays and the battery pops right out. Now it's a glass sheet with a yearly battery subscription. Even the self-hosted Blackberry messenger is now NSA-hosted iMessage. They won't let a private company have that much power again. Oh well, at least it's simpler now on the surface.
Edit: To top this off, here are some references and further reading.
[4] The government suing itself to stop Blackberry's injunction because they all used Blackberry phones, "Fed Agencies Side With BlackBerry (2006)"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4672844.stm
[5] Related: Today's HN discussion on bugs in QNX. Comments mention Blackberry's acquisition and why they use Android now, "The weirdest QNX bug I've encountered (2021)"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837411
The cable/charger situation was worse in the pre-smartphone era. I remember two variants of Nokia, several for Sony/Ericsson and an even greater number for Samsung. Most phones had proprietary audio connectors too. People are now able to switch between all major smartphone brands without purchasing new cables or power supplies. If you wanted to, you could just use your USB-A power brick with a USB-A to USB-C cable.
Let's not forget that what you type on a physical keyboard might have some semblance of what you intended. My phone "corrects" my words on such a frequent basis that it has just become accepted that written communication contains nonsensical words/phrases because an algorithm thought it knew better.
The portability is almost equivalent to the form factor itself, in many cases.
To the point you’re responding to, I can actually think of numerous scenarios where my phone is the preferred device to “send texts.” This activity is not simply the single dimension of “length.”
I think kurthr made a great point in a parallel comment – in what scenario would you switch to your phone to answer a message if you are already sat in front of your computer (assuming the relevant apps are on both devices)?
I wish I could do phone calls and text messages using a 8" tablet, but that functionality is not offered — directly.
It is possible to do those things on a tablet but only if you first tether the tablet to a smartphone over WiFi, even if the tablet has cellular connectivity.
This seems like a useless artificial limitation to me. Why not give users the choice if they want it?
I'd hardly call the features that we now have in a device that fits in your pocket a technological regression.
The fact that I can video call my mother almost anywhere in the world, view emails, send high quality photos to family and see pictures of my friends around the world using two thumbs is hardly a technological regression.
Do I prefer writing emails on my mechanical keyboard looking at my 27" IPS display, yes. But that doesn't take away the value of my mobile phone that allows me to do that anywhere anytime.
> Do I enjoy writing texts and messages on my phone? Yes.
Really? I hate that. No real keyboard, the on-screen keyboard just feels clunky (and I tried multiple).
At home or at work I _only_ write messages over my phone using the "desktop clients" (read: electron zombies) of the messengers, or KDE connect.
> Let's face it, doing basically anything in the form factor of a smartphone just sucks
That’s just your opinion, and I’m pretty sure tens of millions of people disagree with it. There are tons of things that I prefer doing on my smartphone compared to my laptop or TV.
You'd prefer to listen to audio on tiny tinny speakers?
You'd prefer to type with two thumbs rather than 10 fingers?
You'd prefer to multitask on a screen that can only show one program?
You'd prefer to play games just two thumbs that cover the screen you're looking at?
You'd prefer to have an incosistent internet connection as opposed to ethernet?
You know none of those are true. Like it's been mentioned already the strengths lie in portability. GPS and Camera. Those things are inherently linked to being able to carry something small around. And even then for specific cases dedicated GPS devices and dedicated cameras are used.
You’re completely ignoring tradeoffs though. What matters most to me in some situations is flexibility. Like, I prefer watching movies on my phone than on my laptop because the keyboard bothers me. I prefer watching on my TV, but if it’s used by my girlfriend, my phone screen is completely fine.
I prefer to listen to audio with headphones so the phone factor is irrelevant.
For chatting I actually prefer typing on my phone, but not for coding or writing long texts. Maybe you don’t leverage swipe-to-type or vocal messages enough.
I don’t multitask on my phone, it’s not made for that.
I don’t think play games on my phone, it’s not made for that.
I always use WiFi even on my laptop, and it’s not "inconsistent". Check your WiFi.
You underestimate the value of portability and versatility. Portability can give you more comfort. Something "good and portable" can be better that "better and not portable" depending on the situation and state of mind. Tradeoffs.
Right, but in that case you'd prefer to watch movies on a bigger screen in the cinema with big surround sound speakers. But that doesn't mean your lounge room sucks to watch movies in.
The fact that I can watch movies in my own living room whenever I want in the comfort of my own home is the trade off.
They just keep picking the wrong games. Fallout 1 and 2 would be perfect on a phone/tablet.
Civilization style games do really well also.
Heroes of Might and Magic is basically designed for mobile first.
The XCom game I played at one point was really good. It did well to capture the feel of the original games.
Anything turn based with a mostly mouse/cursor driven input is a decent experience. The issue is that publishers keep pushing action games where lack of physical controls ruins the experience. Also any game where sound is important will be a poor experience since you can’t always play with sound on.
Lastly, for casual but high quality games there just aren’t enough portrait mode games out there. And like for no good reason: Out There is an excellent game with a ton of replay value but you can’t play portrait so it just doesn’t work super well for me.
I fully agree that the strategy games are the best candidates for that. It's a pity that those games are losing popularity to casual games. Strategy games are more complex and require more time and effort.
Yeah I'm absolutely not surprised. Controls are terrible and you're going to drain the phone's battery. You can make it a little better if you buy accessories, but then you need to carry those accessories around and it doesn't solve the battery issue.
It makes a ton more sense to just get a standalone device and play games on that instead.
You. A use normal console controllers and an iPad has much better battery life. Heat would likely be less of an issue in the iPad due to size as well. But the controller add-ons that hold the iPhone work quite well.
It’s neat that the phone can generally do this stuff, but that doesn’t mean it’s a great experience. While they’re trying to show how strong it is if they cut the graphics back a bunch so it ran at a better resolution/frame rate without melting a phone it would work a lot better.
The iPad is a much better choice for this. But then you have to carry an iPad and controller. And at that point I’d kind of rather just have my Switch.
I know Apple is trying to show off graphically intense games. But they just don’t seem like the kind of games that would be a good fit for portable platforms to me given the limitations of the iPhone. Especially with heat. And given the already exist elsewhere it’s not exactly a big draw.
I replayed symphony of the night on my iPhone and it was fantastic. I was playing dead cells on it for a while and you could tell it would’ve worked well but the game happened to be a very buggy port at the time (don’t know if it’s better).
I don’t really see wanting my iPhone to be a portable PS4/PS5. Let it be its own thing.
I experimented with streaming PC games to my iPhone via SteamLink. Nifty concept, but playing traditional PC/console style games on a phone isn't much fun. Your thumbs obscure 1/3 of the screen and the UI elements are often too small to reliably tap. You really have to design the mobile experience independently of the desktop/console experience, and then account for the fact that the two markets are often very different.
I'd be interested to see the breakdown for something like Genshin Impact, which was a true cross-platform release. Mobile gaming is huge in China so there's strong incentive to make it a first-class citizen.
Yep, that was immediately apparent! It would definitely make a difference. I still think the market for "people who would buy a controller add-on for their phone" is quite small though.
I have one of those attachments for my Xbox controller where I strap my phone in. The last two games I've finished has been from my bed, using the Steam Link app, and it's been great.
The article seems to overlook one factor, which is that all of these releases previously came out on other platforms, so a lot of the people who might be interested in playing them already had an opportunity to buy and play them on a better gaming platform.
I do think the price point is likely to be an issue, as suggested by the article, though. The price for RE4 seems to be quite steep based on what's in the store listing (and they go out of their way to hide it, presumably so you'll try the free part first) - it looks like it's ~$40 right now, and based on some news articles I dug up, it was originally $60. That's a big up-front price for a phone game, even if it's really an AAA console experience. And you can't plug it in to your TV and undock the joycons like you can with a Switch title.
Does anyone know whether titles like RE4 iOS have crossplay on macbooks? Or would you have to buy it twice?
Not to mention that if you're the kind of person who would buy this level of game on a handheld device, you've been burned by previous poor ports so are hesitant to drop any kind of cash on ports until they're well and truly tested and verified as working as expected.
Paying big prices for old AAA games on a substandard UI isn't a winning proposition. Most people already have those old games on Steam or their console if they want them. While we're on that topic, using the App store generally sucks compared to Steam and isn't cross-platform, so people are WAY more likely to buy a game on Steam instead.
I’m a little surprised that the iPad with Magic Keyboard isn’t a viable option - perhaps because it’s too niche. I have right now one of the newer iPad Airs with the M2 chip, combined with the Magic Keyboard, and I could totally see gaming on this thing.
I tried NVIDIA GeForce Now, but I couldn’t get the mouse to move in Windows greatly limiting the utility. It said I would need a gamepad, but by the time I’m bringing along a game controller…
For what it’s worth the Magic Keyboard is very expensive for gaming and has a tiny trackpad I wouldn’t want to use for gaming. So you’re keyboard + touchscreen at that point, which isn’t ideal.
You’ll have a far better experience just using a Xbox/PS5/MiFi controller for a lot less money. I’ve done it, works great.
Nobody wants to spend 50 dollars on a game that will stop functioning with an iOS update 2 years from now. Even online purchases on console work for ~10 - 15 years.
If I want to play a AAA game, and can afford it, and the latest fancy iPhone to play it, then there is a good chance I have. Gaming PC or Console only it on!
And for people that can’t afford or don’t have a Gaming PC or console, it seems unlikely they want to drop $100 on a game for their iPhone that can’t even run it!
Also, you can get the latest XBox or PS5 for a 3rd of the price of the latest iPhone Pro required for the latest AAA games!
There just isn’t basic product market for at the price points demanded by publishers :-/
People played Fortnite on iOS and iPadOS because it was free and synched to their main accounts!
Would be great if you could play a AAA game for just a small additional fee (to basically cover porting costs) if you already own it on a different platform.
could it be that AAA games in general are more AAA because of budget and less because of the fun? Take crab champions, silly little indie game you can pick up for 14 dollars, which will bring you more hours of fun than a lot of AAA titles of the same genre.
54 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] threadSome things, like photography or phone calls, are great. Some are so-so, like web browsing. And some, like AAA Gaming, are not suited well at all. But on the inverse, calling people or taking photos on the desktop is not a well-suited setup either.
[1] People who have exaggerated confidence in their own intelligence, and thus implicit superiority, are often their own worst enemies.
Do I enjoy using Word on my phone to write a document? No. Do I enjoy writing texts and messages on my phone? Yes. Would I get my laptop out to write a text message or make a call all the time? No.
The fact it's portable and can fit in your pocket, is the exact point and I can navigate the entire device with two thumbs.
The only advantage of mobile devices is their size, mobility, and convenience. For actual winning (development, drawing, design, modeling) you want a larger screen and better UI.
Edit: To top this off, here are some references and further reading.
[1] Android apps jamming up 911 functions, "Android phones have a bug that stops them calling the police, Google warns (2021)" https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/google-android-microsoft-...
[2] Blackberry lasts 3 days per charge of normal usage, "BlackBerry Bold 9780: Not So Bold (2011)" https://www.anandtech.com/show/4228/blackberry-bold-9780-not...
[3] The surgical room to replace batteries, "Apple shipped me a 79-pound iPhone repair kit to fix a 1.1-ounce battery (2022)" https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/21/23079058/apple-self-servi...
[4] The government suing itself to stop Blackberry's injunction because they all used Blackberry phones, "Fed Agencies Side With BlackBerry (2006)" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4672844.stm
[5] Related: Today's HN discussion on bugs in QNX. Comments mention Blackberry's acquisition and why they use Android now, "The weirdest QNX bug I've encountered (2021)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837411
You can change those autocorrections in both options.
The portability is almost equivalent to the form factor itself, in many cases.
To the point you’re responding to, I can actually think of numerous scenarios where my phone is the preferred device to “send texts.” This activity is not simply the single dimension of “length.”
I think kurthr made a great point in a parallel comment – in what scenario would you switch to your phone to answer a message if you are already sat in front of your computer (assuming the relevant apps are on both devices)?
For reading articles, I'd just use whatever device is closest at hand.
For writing long things or coding or photo editing, I'd reach for a full computer.
For answering this post, I'm using my phone because it's closer.
This seems like a useless artificial limitation to me. Why not give users the choice if they want it?
The fact that I can video call my mother almost anywhere in the world, view emails, send high quality photos to family and see pictures of my friends around the world using two thumbs is hardly a technological regression.
Do I prefer writing emails on my mechanical keyboard looking at my 27" IPS display, yes. But that doesn't take away the value of my mobile phone that allows me to do that anywhere anytime.
I agree with the gp. The only benefit of a phone is portability and ease of access.
Really? I hate that. No real keyboard, the on-screen keyboard just feels clunky (and I tried multiple). At home or at work I _only_ write messages over my phone using the "desktop clients" (read: electron zombies) of the messengers, or KDE connect.
That’s just your opinion, and I’m pretty sure tens of millions of people disagree with it. There are tons of things that I prefer doing on my smartphone compared to my laptop or TV.
You'd prefer to listen to audio on tiny tinny speakers?
You'd prefer to type with two thumbs rather than 10 fingers?
You'd prefer to multitask on a screen that can only show one program?
You'd prefer to play games just two thumbs that cover the screen you're looking at?
You'd prefer to have an incosistent internet connection as opposed to ethernet?
You know none of those are true. Like it's been mentioned already the strengths lie in portability. GPS and Camera. Those things are inherently linked to being able to carry something small around. And even then for specific cases dedicated GPS devices and dedicated cameras are used.
I prefer to listen to audio with headphones so the phone factor is irrelevant.
For chatting I actually prefer typing on my phone, but not for coding or writing long texts. Maybe you don’t leverage swipe-to-type or vocal messages enough.
I don’t multitask on my phone, it’s not made for that.
I don’t think play games on my phone, it’s not made for that.
I always use WiFi even on my laptop, and it’s not "inconsistent". Check your WiFi.
You underestimate the value of portability and versatility. Portability can give you more comfort. Something "good and portable" can be better that "better and not portable" depending on the situation and state of mind. Tradeoffs.
The fact that I can watch movies in my own living room whenever I want in the comfort of my own home is the trade off.
Civilization style games do really well also.
Heroes of Might and Magic is basically designed for mobile first.
The XCom game I played at one point was really good. It did well to capture the feel of the original games.
Anything turn based with a mostly mouse/cursor driven input is a decent experience. The issue is that publishers keep pushing action games where lack of physical controls ruins the experience. Also any game where sound is important will be a poor experience since you can’t always play with sound on.
Lastly, for casual but high quality games there just aren’t enough portrait mode games out there. And like for no good reason: Out There is an excellent game with a ton of replay value but you can’t play portrait so it just doesn’t work super well for me.
It makes a ton more sense to just get a standalone device and play games on that instead.
It’s neat that the phone can generally do this stuff, but that doesn’t mean it’s a great experience. While they’re trying to show how strong it is if they cut the graphics back a bunch so it ran at a better resolution/frame rate without melting a phone it would work a lot better.
The iPad is a much better choice for this. But then you have to carry an iPad and controller. And at that point I’d kind of rather just have my Switch.
I know Apple is trying to show off graphically intense games. But they just don’t seem like the kind of games that would be a good fit for portable platforms to me given the limitations of the iPhone. Especially with heat. And given the already exist elsewhere it’s not exactly a big draw.
I replayed symphony of the night on my iPhone and it was fantastic. I was playing dead cells on it for a while and you could tell it would’ve worked well but the game happened to be a very buggy port at the time (don’t know if it’s better).
I don’t really see wanting my iPhone to be a portable PS4/PS5. Let it be its own thing.
I'd be interested to see the breakdown for something like Genshin Impact, which was a true cross-platform release. Mobile gaming is huge in China so there's strong incentive to make it a first-class citizen.
Setup - 8bitdo pro 2, 8bitdo pro 2 mobile holder, streaming with sunshine and receiving with moonlight android
Game - Eastward
I do think the price point is likely to be an issue, as suggested by the article, though. The price for RE4 seems to be quite steep based on what's in the store listing (and they go out of their way to hide it, presumably so you'll try the free part first) - it looks like it's ~$40 right now, and based on some news articles I dug up, it was originally $60. That's a big up-front price for a phone game, even if it's really an AAA console experience. And you can't plug it in to your TV and undock the joycons like you can with a Switch title.
Does anyone know whether titles like RE4 iOS have crossplay on macbooks? Or would you have to buy it twice?
I tried NVIDIA GeForce Now, but I couldn’t get the mouse to move in Windows greatly limiting the utility. It said I would need a gamepad, but by the time I’m bringing along a game controller…
You’ll have a far better experience just using a Xbox/PS5/MiFi controller for a lot less money. I’ve done it, works great.
If I want to play a AAA game, and can afford it, and the latest fancy iPhone to play it, then there is a good chance I have. Gaming PC or Console only it on!
And for people that can’t afford or don’t have a Gaming PC or console, it seems unlikely they want to drop $100 on a game for their iPhone that can’t even run it!
Also, you can get the latest XBox or PS5 for a 3rd of the price of the latest iPhone Pro required for the latest AAA games!
There just isn’t basic product market for at the price points demanded by publishers :-/
People played Fortnite on iOS and iPadOS because it was free and synched to their main accounts!