Ask HN: What book bit, stung and shook you deeply?

49 points by leobg ↗ HN
Someone here quoted Kafka [1] on what types of books to read:

Books that “bite and sting”. That “wake us up with a blow to the head”. And which “affect us like a disaster, that hurts us deeply, like the death of someone we loved more than ourselves”.

Ever read a book like that? Which was it? How did it affect you? What did reading it do to you?

[1] Brief an Oskar Pollak, 27. Januar 1904. , https://homepage.univie.ac.at/werner.haas/1904/br04-003.htm.

English (ChatGPT): "I believe one should only read those books which bite and sting. If the book we are reading does not wake us up with a blow to the head, then why read the book? To make us happy, as you write? My God, we would be just as happy if we had no books, and those books that make us happy, we could write ourselves if necessary. But we need the books that affect us like a disaster, that hurts us deeply, like the death of someone we loved more than ourselves, like if we were being driven into forests, away from all people, like a suicide, a book must be the axe for the frozen sea inside us."

Original: "Ich glaube, man sollte überhaupt nur solche Bücher lesen, die einen beißen und stechen. Wenn das Buch, das wir lesen, uns nicht mit einem Faustschlag auf den Schädel weckt, wozu lesen wir dann das Buch? Damit es uns glücklich macht, wie Du schreibst? Mein Gott, glücklich wären wir eben auch, wenn wir keine Bücher hätten, und solche Bücher, die uns glücklich machen, könnten wir zur Not selber schreiben. Wir brauchen aber die Bücher, die auf uns wirken wie ein Unglück, das uns sehr schmerzt, wie der Tod eines, den wir lieber hatten als uns, wie wenn wir in Wälder vorstoßen würden, von allen Menschen weg, wie ein Selbstmord, ein Buch muß die Axt sein für das gefrorene Meer in uns."

70 comments

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Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. As for why it bit and stung me: IYKYK, I guess? Any reasons more than that tend to start flame wars.
That’s another good one. Sadly, I’ve learned not to talk about Ishmael (or Daniel Quinn) online but yeah, if you know you know.
[flagged]
Hahaha this is my first direct brush with Godwin's law. Thanks, rexpop!
Hahaha!

> Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. They [presume] the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.

— Sartre (1944)

This is an unwarranted appeal to authority (and quoting a person that colluded with Simone de Beauvoir to groom young women into predatory relationships).

Honestly, I don't understand what kind of effect you hope to achieve by calling random people Nazis except self-validation, but I guess I could turn your Sartre quote around to apply to [autistic pedants].

I am not in the least amused.
Do you think the book is fascistic? If so, maybe it’s helpful to explain why.
The book is claustrophobic but otherwise forgettable. These comments, however, are paranoiac and chauvinistic.
Another way to pose the question is, what book/author did you read as an adult that you were either very thankful you didn't come across as a teen, or that you wish profoundly that you had?

For me, Borges answers both. It would've changed things.

When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanthi.

A fascinating memoir by a philosopher turned brain surgeon, facing a terminal cancer diagnosis. A person who spent their entire life pondering the morality of life being faced with their own ultimatum.

I reread it once a year, at minimum. A deeply moving book.

I was a labmate of Paul when I was starting my PhD. He was an incredible human, and such a fantastic writer.
It's a fantastic memoir indeed, very moving.

Love this quote from the book: "You can't ever reach perfection, but you can believe in an asymptote toward which you are ceaselessly striving".

Isn't that just a more verbose way of saying "You can reach for perfection."?
Everything good’s already been said. All that’s left is just a wordier retelling.
Death on the Ice - Cassie Brown and Harold Horwood.

Going in, you know things are going to end badly. The foreshadowing is so deep that it gets painful to turn pages as you watch everyone make mistakes that would condemn all those men to death. But the two days on the ice?? I read a lot and have read some truly painful books, but some of those stories still haunt me.

Russian Spring by Norman Spinrad. It did all of the aforementioned: Bit, stung, head blow, and it felt like the US dying would feel.
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I've never really felt like Kafka seems to have and I read a lot, mostly novels. For what it's worth, I don't love Kafka's novels: I think he wanted them burned for a reason -- they're meandering failures. Very clever but they don't go anywhere. His short stories, though, are excellent.

Off the top of my head, the most moving books I've read are The First Circle, any long Dostoevsky novel, The Master and Margarita, The Tartar Steppe, any Elena Ferrante, any Cormac McCarthy, some Murakami (Ryu and Haruki), Gene Wolf (The Book of the New Sun), 2666, parts of Moby Dick, any Alice Munro. All well known "good books".

the jungle by upton sinclair
Yes man, Danny Wallace. Don’t take it’s comedy approach wrongly, I think a lot of folks could improve their happiness by reading and internalising this book.
Three Comrades by Remarque.

I'm not sure what it is about it. On the surface it's a fairly straightforward story but the way the everyday struggles of the times, strong friendship and love are interwoven, is perfect.

For some reason i can't get the stranger, Camus out of my head. I had it on my desk for at least 10 years at one company as a sign that I never quite fitted in there, but I never felt like I fitted anywhere else either. I enjoy books you can easily read in a single sitting as you could really get into a zone with the story. Old man and the sea and several Iain Banks books fell into the same category.
"The last lecture" by Randy Pausch - there is a book, but also a talk you can watch online.

If you've never seen it, I highly recommend to watch it.

Not giving any spoilers, but as a father, the ending of the talk made me shed a tear.

This is gonna sound a bit corny, but it impacted me for reasons that will become clear: "1984", by George Orwell.

I was 13 at the time, and I was lucky enough to have a passionate English teacher that gave us challenging books to review. I chose "1984". It was the first book I'd read, up to that point, that didn't have a "Hollywood ending". The hero didn't save the day and get the girl… just the victory of tyranny over individualism. Admittedly, I had read a lot of crap, up till then.

As the leader directly tells Winston (i.e. you, the reader): "If you want a picture of the future, think of a boot stamping on a human face - forever."

I was gripped by the writing up till the very last words, then a panic set in… I thought that there were pages missing… I literally checked that someone hadn't torn out the last chapter where everything is made right again. No. There was no liberation. I sat stunned for the better part of an hour.

"The Dispossessed" by Ursula le Guin: never have I experienced the idea of a working anarchism described in such a genuinely coherent form.

My immediate thought after reading the question was also the very last sentence of 1984. It was the first time that a book caused me to feel a deeply visceral, lasting emotional response. Reading through the first 99% of the book, I found it a well written and engaging book, but all of that just lead up to the very last sentence. It absolutely hit me like a truck. I also just sat stunned after finishing the book.
Mountains Beyond Mountains

A biography of Dr Paul Farmer and how he dedicated his life and sacrificed everything to solve (in his words) “easily preventable” health problems in Haiti.

It hits on many levels: his unapologetic empathy for ordinary people, the global abuse and abandonment of Haiti by western powers, the flaws of thinking about global health through a lens of utilitarianism, the real change that just one person can initiate, etc

Highly highly recommended!

Could it be a short story? Because Tolkien’s Leaf by Niggle somehow fits in that category. Or maybe is not just the story but what we know about the author.
Could it be a short story?

Absolutely. Munro's Meneseteung was what convinced me to stop trying to be a writer, and stick to hacking.

I think the The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas by Ursula K. Le Guin would be the short story that got to me. I don't know if when I read it was particularly revelatory but I think about it a lot.

This will rightly get me down voted but in U.S. politics lately I was thinking, "How much would you be willing to lie to get towards a desired or avoid a bad political end?" Though that thought is really just Le Guin retold.

children of time, adrian tchaikovsky.

impossible to communicate the experience. run, don’t walk.

prefer the audiobook.

"Everything Flows ' by Vasily Grossman, about Ukrainian Holodomor and people they brought to live in these empty villages.
Because I didn't know, I asked ChatGPT. For the benefit of those in a similar situation, I'm posting the output I got below.

---

"Everything Flows" by Vasily Grossman is a novel that explores the devastating impact of Soviet policies on the lives of individuals. Although the book does not focus exclusively on the Ukrainian Holodomor, it addresses the broader tragedies inflicted by the Soviet regime, including the forced famines in Ukraine. The Holodomor, specifically, was a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine from 1932 to 1933 that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians due to starvation.

In the context of the novel, Grossman discusses the repercussions of such events on the human spirit and the moral compromises of those who survived. The narrative sometimes touches on how the Soviet authorities repopulated areas depopulated by famine and repression with new settlers, often people from other parts of the USSR, to consolidate control and continue the Sovietization process. The novel provides a deep reflection on guilt, suffering, and the resilience of the human spirit in the face of oppressive political systems.

Farseer trilogy, by Robin Hobb.

I often read fantasy fiction and someone recommended Hobb for having a joker/fool character along the lines of Wit in Sanderson's Cosmere universe.

Well, it turns out Hobb is brutal when it comes to writing stories that destroy people. I finished the trilogy, but I was more impacted by it than any other work of fiction I've read in years.

Oh, boy. The Fool is one of my favorite characters in fiction and poor, poor Fitz. I picked the original series up on a recommendation from a college friend. I went in thinking I was too old for a "YA Fantasy" book to make my heart ache. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Took me right back to bawling over Feist's Riftwar Saga as a young teen.
Capital Vol 1. Mostly because it demonstrates two things:

1. How small ideas can have big consequences - each section is a logical consequence of the former, and

2. How multidisciplinarism is greater than the sum of its parts. One can be an ok historian, sociologist, or political theorist, but combined can find connections outside of the narrow scope of any single domain.

The accounts of working conditions, especially of children, will never leave me.

You mean Marx’s? Shame on you spreading this nonsense
He’s been very influential in the field of economics. What about Capital do you think is nonsense?
Hitler has been influential too. And also Stalin, and many other bloody “influencers”.

Virtually Everything in Capital is an artificial made up nonsense, starting from the basic premise of class struggle being the root cause of economic dynamics.

I know that both from experience growing up in one of shitty socialist countries and from talking to professional economists with various backgrounds.

Marx is nonsense, but as we've seen lately, nonsense turns out to be a powerful and dangerous thing. As with most powerful, dangerous things, it's much better to deal with it from a position of understanding, than from a position of ignorance or indifference.
Yes, but do you need to read every page of mein kampf to know that it’s bullshit?

i say let psychiatrists and cult researchers do the job of figuring out why those ideas take off, and let’s hide those silly books from mass access

Hiding ideas has never worked. It's crack to disestablishmentarians who view it as "they're hiding the truth!"

Knowing something is bullshit doesn't translate into being able to effectively refute the thing because telling someone that the thing is bullshit is unconvincing.

I will prove it now in situ. Your take is bullshit. See, failed to change your mind.

I know my take is bullshit, lol.

I don’t have time nor energy to craft a perfect comment with evidence and good reasoning, many people smarter than me have done it multiple times (and many millions have died proving Marxism wrong).

You can waste whole life and arguing with idiots about stupid ideas, not my cup of tea )

So why have a take you know is bullshit?
To show others that there are plenty of people who don’t buy this marxist crap, and to shame original comment for spreading nonsense
So, do you think that there is not a conflict between labor and capital, where the first is provided by workers that want to be well paid, and the second having the objective of growth and reproduction, and so wants to minimize coasts like salaries? I see this conflict happening a lot when workers begin a labor strike, or when company owners do union busting and anti-union activities. When for the workers, the ideal percentage of unemployment should be 0%, but for capital owners, it should be higher, or the labor price becomes too high. I think there are lots of examples of conflicts between labor and capital.

Related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_th...

There is a conflict, this one and many others.

And also there are not only conflicts but mutual interests.

And also all of it differs drastically from type of industry, country, culture, type of company, current macroeconomic situation, political regime etc etc.

This is nothing but wishful thinking and malicious ignorance to take 1 of many factors and build an ideology on it.

And ideology that eventually can not solve a single problem it intended to solve.

Even if you don't believe that the main contradiction in capitalism is between capital and labor, all the points made by OP are still valid: the book shows how small ideas have big consequences and that the whole is bigger than the sums of parts.

You know, you do not need to agree with a philosopher to learn things with him. The main point of philosophy is being able to understand ideas from different thinkers and learn something with them, even in cases where you do not agree much with them. Moreover, Marx is one of the most influential thinkers in the XIX century. You lose a lot when you let your ideology dictates what kind of ideas or books you are not allowed to explore or if you let these things creates a strawman that do not let you think objectively about some ideas.

Stop calling him a thinker.

He is no more “thinker” than hitler.

Do you learn a lot from hitler?

The basic premise of Capital is that use value and exchange value are different things. Class struggle is the conclusion. A conclusion is something at the end of a book. You're clearly arguing about something you know nothing about.
"The Case Against Reality" by Donald D. Hoffman

I can't even ...

“The Fountainhead” by Ayn Rand shook me when I was younger. I know it’s popular to vilify her, but it showed how commitment to one’s own principles is admirable and at the same time not appreciated by society at large.
The Black Book of Communism.

Among other things, it discusses the famine in China under Mao in the late 1950's and early 1960's.

Some families traded children with each other. That way, they could kill and eat someone else's children instead of killing and eating their own.

The Dark Tower series by Stephen King. Totally changed how I view literature and life. Made me believe in magic again.