I mean, this is why some untouched rock samples from the moon missions were supposed to be kept in sealed airtight containers for decades to come - so future scientists could use better techniques
Would be cool if there were some sort of world wide… connection system of some sort so the authors could share their data without needing to respond to individual emails.
Found this at least [1]: "In 2010, as part of the ongoing Luna Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) NASA mission, the Miniature Radio-Frequency (Mini-RF) instrument acquired data that included a pit in Mare Tranquilitatis,” said Professor Lorenzo Bruzzone in a statement. “Years later we have reanalysed these data with complex signal processing techniques we have recently developed, and have discovered radar reflections from the area of the pit that are best explained by an underground cave conduit. This discovery provides the first direct evidence of an accessible lava tube under the surface of the Moon."
I suppose the Artemis III landing location is probably set in stone at the south pole, and even if it weren't, there probably wouldn't be enough time to explore a cave. Maybe we can get some hopping pit-bots there sooner rather than later:
This would also change the mars vs moon colony equation. A ready made radiation shelter of substantial volume means none of that shielding or digging equipment would need to be brought from Earth. Move-in ready.
Similarly the Chinese program is so far only planning for landings and a moon base at the south pole. But I wouldn't be surprised if China squeezes in an extra manned or rover mission to investigate this. It'd be a pretty cheap win for their Moon program over Artemis.
I imagine there is a massive benefit to trying to secure and claim this cave before others have a chance to. Turn key Cheyenne mountain complex on the moon with little complex lunar excavation required? Yes please, says every nations strategic space command at once. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more such sites, undisclosed for fear of competition settling on the site, but already identified for future basebuilding purposes.
Interesting deck that shows moon caves are not a new concept at all. I’m surprised this hasn’t shown up in more sci-fi movies by now… slides 11 and 16 are quite compelling!
Now how do we know there isn’t anyone there already… ;)
Yep, I'm looking forward to seeing how China (and maybe their Russian partners) develops the Moon and the resources there, and seeing how this affects economies and the power balance here on Earth. Because the western countries certainly aren't going to succeed in getting there first.
As far as we know there is little that's economical to bring back to earth. There are quite possibly enormous iron and nickel reserves from meteor impacts (e.g. [1]). Mining them for use on earth isn't that interesting, but if you want to build large structures in space (or on the moon) having metal that far out of earth's gravity well is pretty valuable.
And then there are the unknown unknowns. We spend a lot of time prospecting earth, and haven't spent all that much prospecting the moon. This will be much easier with boots on the ground. And while the moon's lack of geological activity means it isn't good at concentrating resources, it also means remains from impact events remain much more reachable and concentrated than on earth.
Claiming that iron reserves on the moon are valuable because they make it easier to maintain control of the iron reserves on the moon isn't going to convince many people, and zero competent people.
Don't know why you are being downvoted... I've noticed that this whole asteroid mining (or really mining of any extraterrestrial body at all for that matter) has almost reached meme levels of hysteria here on hackernews... I too don't understand it.
Iron reserves on the moon / asteroid / space are only going to become valuable once there is a reason to mine, smelt and forge in space, outside of Earth's gravity well. So if we can ever get say giant space ships and space stations built in space, sure. But unfortunately, that looks unlikely this century.
It might not be economical to ship it back to Earth. But launching from the Moon is far cheaper than launching from Earth, so if there is ever a significant demand for materials in Earth orbit it makes sense to supply from the Moon.
This is so far off, though. Whatever raw materials you mine from the Moon need to be refined and then you probably need to manufacture something from them, with any other components of the manufactured product being imported from Earth. Not saying there would never be a plausible scenario, but it's so far off, with nothing even resembling a hypothetical plan at this stage.
The moon has helium-3 which would be useful for fusion. Getting it back to earth would be easier than getting off earth, you have the possibility of cargo rail guns which only needs materials to fire which you can source on the moon.
> they discover a battered Union Jack flag on the surface and a handwritten note, dated some 65 years earlier, claiming the moon on behalf of Queen Victoria. Stranger still, the note is written on the back of a court summons for one Katherine Callender from the village of Dymchurch in England.
This reads like the beginning of a Doctor Who episode.
Nigel Kneale, who wrote the screenplay, famously wrote Quatermass, so you're in the right area - that was a big influence on early Who. Kneale hated the idea of Doctor Who though, and refused to write for it - he said "It sounded a terrible idea and I still think it was." (specifically, he hated that it was designed to frighten small children)
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[ 5.4 ms ] story [ 40.9 ms ] threadI've tried it in the past after reading a blog post about its effectiveness. I am yet to receive a response.
[1] https://www.iflscience.com/the-first-cave-has-been-found-on-...
https://arxiv.org/abs/1701.07799
(Not for lack I am sure, and, as mentioned, of comparable as-of-now secret comparable sites already known about ...
... but because public knowledge of at least this one makes for vox populi pressure uoon spacefaring actors.-
And speaking of races on the moon: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/moon-walls-running-1.7192281
Now how do we know there isn’t anyone there already… ;)
And then there are the unknown unknowns. We spend a lot of time prospecting earth, and haven't spent all that much prospecting the moon. This will be much easier with boots on the ground. And while the moon's lack of geological activity means it isn't good at concentrating resources, it also means remains from impact events remain much more reachable and concentrated than on earth.
1: https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2019GL08...
We don't, though.
I'm also betting the cave has a sizeable ice trap in it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qL1WqN1XKK0&pp=ygUdU3RhcnRyZWsgN...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYsSsdplqLg
NASAs space-grade version was a bit bulkier, but same idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvnC--JjDBw
Sadly the modern space version is far less useful because of safety concerns.
[0] https://pulispace-blog-hu.translate.goog/2012/03/31/a_holdmo...
On Mars, maybe stromatolites or other bacteria live in these caves!
I think there's a documentary on that: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078748/
if we do find a note in the cave saying claimed on behalf of Queen Victoria...probably best to leave.
This reads like the beginning of a Doctor Who episode.
https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/layers?prjExtent=941477.606759...