Ask HN: Struggling with poor memory and executive function. What to do?
From learning new topics & skills, to learning how to network, to learning the dynamics of how an organization and how to navigate various relationships, to making well-reasoned and effective decisions, my mind often feels like mush, totally blinded to the realities of the world. I feel I've been stuck both cognitively and emotionally at a late-teen stage. Poor emotional regulation, difficulties with thinking in nuanced details, constantly flying at 1000 feet.
The older I get with no improvement, the more it feels my goals keep drifting farther away. I want to get fit, I want to read more, I want to develop skills, I want to build relationships, I want to be an entrepreneur. These are things many of my colleagues have been working towards for years. It feels like I just wasn't given the playbook, and worse, am incapable of piecing one together.
Have any of you dealt with this? Any advice? Are there coaches that can help?
132 comments
[ 2385 ms ] story [ 476 ms ] threadPractice meditation.
Stop striving to hit other people's targets. Find what makes you you.
https://www.drinkbrez.com/
And I recently bought protein bars (from an ad on TikTok) which turned out to have Lion's Mane:
https://www.eatiqbar.com/products/chocolate-mint-chip
There might be some combination of drugs and therapies that could help some or all of those conditions. It doesn't work for everyone, but if you have never tried the mainstream approach, it might be worth a shot.
If you can start to see small improvements in some of those areas, then you can build other practices on top of them and keep improving those skills.
There are also many alternative modalities (doctors of naturopathic medicine, for example) with different approaches, if you prefer. You can try multiple providers/modalities until you find one that works for you, if you can afford it.
Best of luck to you! 40 here, and my life's also a mess, but I have no neurological/biological excuses lol, just my own personal failures. Hopefully you'll find some helpful approaches once you start looking.
I support the recommendation of seeing a mental health professional, and wanted to emphasize that the scientific literature suggests a moderate to strong link amongst the symptoms you mentioned (citations below). I selected articles that reference ADHD and Cluster B personality disorders because they very broadly map onto the symptoms you're describing; I'm by no means making a diagnosis, but only trying to provide additional insight.
From the abstract of a journal article regarding the link between emotion dysregulation and ADHD [1]:
> "Emotion dysregulation, a major contributor to impairment throughout life, is common in ADHD and may arise from deficits in orienting toward and processing emotional stimuli, implicating dysfunction within the prefrontal cortical network. Understanding the nature of the overlap between emotional dysregulation and ADHD can stimulate novel treatment approaches."
From the abstract of a journal article regarding the link between emotion dysregulation and Cluster B personality disorders [2]:
> "Individuals suffering from personality disorders, particularly borderline personality disorder, often evidence substantial problems in regulating and managing their emotions...The newly developed brief General Emotion Dysregulation Measure (GEDM) has shown good reliability and validity with a clinical sample of 100 individuals diagnosed with Cluster B personality disorders."
I am not a licensed clinician but have considerable experience in clinical psychology research, so if anyone has any questions, please feel free to reach out. But to be clear, I am offering academic views; a licensed clinician offers medical views.
[1]: https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2013....
[2]: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.5243/jsswr.2010...
I have experienced similar issues and received medication for [underlying condition], which has helped immensely.
1. cPTSD 2. ADHD 3. Depression 4. (Relatively mild / high-functioning) autism spectrum disorder
Likely combined with aftereffects from mild traumatic brain injury (i.e. a high number of concussions), but this part is largely speculative.
Would not recommend attempting to research your way into a solution without the help of a trained practitioner.
What helped you? Traditional psychotropics? Psychedelics?
* Ketamine was life changing (for depression symptoms)
* Stimulants help me a lot. The first time I took adderall, I cried, because I had never experienced such a relaxed state of calm or peace. I haven't been able to get any due to the longstanding shortage, and my quality of life has suffered as a result. Other drugs help me to control my focus, but they don't tend to help my memory or emotional regulation much.
* I also take antidepressants that are slightly helpful.
* Diet, exercise, and sunlight make a huge difference.
Felt like Im just damaging my physical health for no good reason
I’d say start your day off with absolutely nothing. Just go outside and go for a walk with no phone. No music. No technology. From the moment you wake up, try a one hour walk like this (map out a route that takes about an hour so you don’t need a clock with you). Let your mind fly, then after the hour is up, write down some notes about your thoughts. Try this for a week.
I'm interested in knowing why you're reluctant to try stimulants. what you describe in your OP sounds a lot like the symptoms of ADHD and stimulant medication helps many people with the exact symptoms you list with little to no side effects. why leave that on the table?
I treat my ADHD with stimulants, and I would say there are definitely side-effects, but the side-effects are mostly manageable.
While I do benefit from stimulants, I personally believe the benefits are exaggerated, and apparently the Cochrane Library does not disagree with me:
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...
I have a similar profile, along with seizures in childhood that led to repeated head injuries. Cause and effect was always an open question for me.
I'd like to share a personal story in the hope that it helps you. My brother turned me on to Dr. Amen. We both took his on-line test for ADHD[1] and both tested positive for multiple forms of ADHD. He agreed that my results were much worse.
My brother used that as an immediate excuse to take meds. I instead signed up for his on-line course and lost count of the number of times he said "this practice has been found to be just as effective as medication". I put in the work and it made a major lasting difference in my life. My brother didn't bother with the work, the course, or the recommendations and is still searching for that magic pill or mushroom that will "fix" him.
As an aside, the powerful realization while taking that test is how bad it made me feel. I had flashbacks to all the people I disappointed over the years. It's like every question was "are you also shitty in this way ?". It made me realize: 1) I didn't want to be shitty anymore, 2) with good practices and habits I can fix/mitigate my flaws, 3) and failing meant being dependent on big pharma and doctors who might not have my best intentions.
Please ask yourself sincerely: Have you put in the work ? Do you really care about improving ? Is there a single _simple_ new habit you know would improve your life ? Are you going to start right now working on that one simple habit and writing yourself an email daily/weekly to check your progress ? No one is coming to the rescue. Don't waste your money and a coach's time if you can't even do the bare minimum.
[1] I believe this is the test (I took it 5 years ago) https://theaddquiz.com/
If something is easy to deal with right now, just deal with it immediately.
For me, it's been dishes, trash, and organising (e.g. keys not in the key-bowl; cables not in the cable drawer) where it's helped most. I'd say it's a 30% improvement, which doesn't necessarily sound great, but it's all about things that require almost zero effort.
I'll take a look into your reference soon!
Speaking from experience. Advice like the kind I’m replying to wasted so much of my time. For some reason everyone is an expert on this particular topic. No, the experts are (ignore pop psych shysters also).
Red flag detected.
Dr. Amen is basically the Dr. Oz of ADHD treatment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Amen#Reception_of_ideas
> "this practice has been found to be just as effective as medication".
No other research supports his conclusions. It's so fascinating that he can use brain-imaging to diagnosis 7 'types of ADHD', when no one else has ever discovered more than three subtypes of ADHD, and no other researchers have even been able to successfully diagnosis any mental disorder via brain imaging.
Let me put it this way, unless you are an exceptional individual, "putting in the work" and overcoming ADHD typically means one thing: You do not have ADHD.
> doctors who might not have my best intentions.
Do you not see the irony in this statement?
Please ask yourself sincerely: Do you truly think you have ADHD because an online test's results? Do you really think people with ADHD do not care about improving? Do you think people with ADHD have not tried habits they know would improve their lives?
Do you understand how many people with ADHD take medication, use behavioral interventions, and still struggle?
That test appears to be crappy lead gen for their online clinic. That's my expert opinion.
FWIW, I don't know if anyone in the world is truly neurotypical, but I am not aware of any suffering of a psychological nature, in my own life.
I answered the test questions to the best of my ability, and received a "diagnosis" of an ADHD type (not generally recognized by the medical community), which the clinic's own literature describes as exclusively having symptoms that I explicitly answered Never or Rarely to.
I know they didn't have much to work with, but an honest response would have been more along the lines of "You tabulated 11.3% on our scale of this ADHD type, you're probably not significantly impacted!"
Personal story: I have pretty severe ptsd, and was being abused at the time I visited. I had a full brain scan done as an adolescent using his nuclear imaging technique, and the results were that I should take X and Y and Z medication, none of which worked. They promised "a new life" on these, but they did not treat the underlying causes, nor did they screen for them. This is now 25 years later, but he is still pushing the same diagnostic techniques that ignored the underlying reasons for my issues. This was at a cost of some $13,000. I still have the brain scan and the recommendations - they are near-total bullshit.
He is a Dr. Oz style quack who is out for massive personal enrichment, and nobody has been able to replicate any of his own developed techniques because they are not real.
More sources:
https://quackwatch.org/research-projects/amen/
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Daniel_Amen
But on a more practical level, I have found that using a calendar and a notes app (I use Obsidian) has been invaluable for my memory and organisational skills. Also having a daily routine and sticking to it.
Having one or more good friends that will bust your balls when needed, eating right, keeping a journal of your successes as well as thoughts and failures, and much more besides will be needed.
If you aren't able or willing to pursue a potential diagnosis, you can at least check out some of the channels that deal with A(u)DHD lifestyle challenges and coping/productivity methods. Even if you don't fit the bill for a diagnosis, there's enough crossover that you will probably find them very helpful, as you have evident ADHD traits.
Yeah, this is classic.
If OP is interested I can find some of the channels I've found helpful. They can be a little cringe sometimes (neurodivergence is like thay), but even then, they're often genuinely helpful.
Out and about now but I can link them later.
EDIT: For OP's sake, the first thing you need to accept is that your brain is genuinely different from most people. You can be immensely successful if you adopt the right strategies. But the first step is accepting that no matter how much the advice makes sense, neurotypical advice, at least on its own, will very often _not_ be helpful.
Considering OP says they haven't tried stimulants, I'm guessing they haven't glimpsed what a neurotypical brain feels like. It really is a fundamental difference. Stimulants can get you close to it, but for day-to-day living, you need to explore advice from other neurodivergents primarily.
B. Remove strong dopamine stimulants from your life (if any) at least for a little while. Dopamine is powerful, but desensitizing. Your brain likes a balance of ups and downs - extreme ups cause everything else to be perceptually lower. This perceived lower outlook often then increases the very need for the thing creating the high, causing a vicious cycle. Alcohol and Porn are the big ones where, anecdotally, you can notice significant changes in your outlook after a month of fully abstaining. Other people may need to cut back or remove Video Games and excess Food for a while. What is important though is that dopamine is dopamine, your brain can get it from many places, so be careful to remove and not replace.
C. Consider your spiritual life. I’m personally Catholic, and will always strongly recommend and beg that you begin investigating that (as I’m showing my bias here); but if you are not at peace with God (or even whatever you honor), it will mentally eat at you. Dante’s Inferno may have demons consuming humans in Hell - but the mental anguish from a guilty conscience will eat at you in this life.
D. When you know there’s nothing seriously wrong with you (therapy); have your mind mentally balanced (removing strong stimulants); and believe yourself to be in a spiritually good place (no nagging conscience); efforts to exert your will or follow guides to becoming more ordered and focused will, in my opinion, have a much higher likelihood of success as the serious boulders in the road will have been removed.
I think you can replace religion in C with mindfulness / meditation. There are community aspects to organized religion but, at least in the US right now, those carry some (a lot of?) negatives that might not be helpful. But an open mind and curiosity about the mystery of life can prove useful without the structure of organized religion.
The biggest problem, or negative, with unorganized religion or meditation is what I would call the excessive focus on oneself. What is good is what feels right to me as good; what is bad is what feels right to me as bad. This is very subjective and can easily go down a rabbit hole where your religion, is ultimately, your own ability to rationalize your own actions and perspectives. Meditation can also easily backfire into an exercise in forcing your conscience to conform to what you mentally want to believe, regardless of whether it is true.
I am not saying that “organized religion” does not have serious downsides - I believe that any objectively false religion will have enormous consequences. However, I think that almost all of them do recognize one fundamental principle: Good, and Evil, are external properties of us, and our own feelings or preferences or desires or inclinations, have no bearing on whether an action is objectively Good or Evil. It takes an external force (e.g. God) to define what it is, so that we may understand and conform to it - otherwise, we are God.
In a sense, everyone believes in a God. Everyone believes that somebody defines good and evil. Either it’s an external force to which we must logically conform, or it’s ourselves. This is also why people of extraordinary evil (Hitler, Mao, Stalin) are also worth critically examining - after all, the God they worshiped in themselves did not condemn their actions. Why is your personal God better than theirs?
Also, what a hilariously weak comeback that doesn’t address anything I said. On that note, I’ll take over 2400+ years of philosophy before I take a modern philosopher sharing the news about his brilliant new idol. Don’t let the novelty fallacy blind you to the fact that even you have an idol - the idol that ironically claims we’ve moved past idols.
No, therapy is also a place to practice relating, eg vocalizing emotions, setting boundaries, or mending ruptures. Therapy is, after all, also a relationship.
"Vague" solutions are, of course, "no true scotsman," but yes, therapists should be able to offer concrete, actionable coping tools--explain them to you, and help you process your attempt to put them into practice.
I don't see a reason, however, to see a therapist who finds fault with me that I don't, myself, consider a problem. Let my friends and relations stage the interventions if need be. ;)
Seriously, it was a big help and minimal side-effects aside from a bit of aggression, but if you want assertive, you get assertive.
> I want to read more Hit up a place of books
> I want to develop skills Choose books that skill you up
> I want to build relationships Consistently reach out to people
> I want to be an entrepreneur You're in good company.
> It feels like I just wasn't given the playbook, and worse, am incapable of piecing one together. Have any of you dealt with this? Any advice? Are there coaches that can help? You're capable. Don't tell yourself you're not. Go and form a plan for yourself, you know yourself best and you don't need anyone else. Be confident.
Beyond that, though, three things that have been Big in helping me build my mental capacity (and they’re all deeply stereotypical, but):
1. Sleep - more than anything else, consistently getting 8+hrs of sleep improves my cognition and consequently my productivity and my mood. I spend a lot of effort on sleep hygiene (dim red light and no screens at night, bright light or sun in the morning), but a couple days of good sleep are irreplaceable.
2. Related to 1, cut booze. Mostly because it ruins effective sleep, but also because it’s a depressant and a stand-in for all the other stuff I’m trying to improve for myself. Less booze, better sleep, better mood, better health, repeat.
3. Exercise - I can’t do cardio for shit, but I started doing strength training a while back and love it. It’s a great mood booster - physiologically, you’re basically doing a nervous system reset when picking up a sufficiently heavy thing. It also helps me sleep better, reduces a bunch of weird aches and pains, and makes me feel like a badass.
Again, go see a professional - my therapist’s how I learned all the above - but in the meantime, those three things have been enormous to improving my mood, capacity, and productivity.
4. Water. Make sure you're hydrated.
5. Diet. Ensure you have a sufficient intake of all important nutrients and try to eat a diet that isn't too carb/sugar heavy (this doesn't need to be taken to extremes).
Agree with the water, though - I've always got a big water bottle next to my desk.
I lived my whole life with barely an understanding of the macronutrients, wrapped in popular wisdom: eat enough fiber, protein is good for you, be careful with carbs, sugar is bad (but you can't avoid it).
I also casually dabbled with some fashion diets, experimented with apps for counting calories, and grew up with plenty of wrong and harmful advice (fruit juice is healthy, honey & cereal as a healthy breakfast, etc). Nothing really stuck.
I never understood why sugar is bad, or what's the difference between fiber and carbs (aren't they both plants?), what happens in your body when you eat carbs, or what the heck are calories anyway?
It was only when I read more about how your body processes food and the impact on your glucose levels that things started to click for me. I also got a CGM, and started seeing the direct correlation of the spikes and crashes with mood, cravings, motivation, post-lunch slump, headaches, energy levels.
It has also completely changed my relationship with food. I started eating more, lost weight, and my glucose levels are significantly lower (and, more importantly, I know exactly how to control it). Also have a bit more energy, less cravings, no post-lunch slump.
There's plenty of resources out there, but the three that helped me were [1][2][3], and a Dexcom CGM (but that's totally optional).
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Glucose-Revolution-Life-Changing-Powe...
[2] https://www.amazon.com/Glucose-Goddess-Method-Cutting-Cravin...
[3] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QUEHNU/
It's just that people refuse to engage with a simple diet. All you have to do is start to cook for yourself and it's done, your diet is solved by the required meats, vegetables and carbs you get in a basic home cooked meal two times a day. Even if it's reheated.
Also worth mentioning how deeply they are all inter-related: diet will influence your glucose levels, metabolism and gut health. Metabolism and glucose is directly related to brain function. Exercise helps with sleep, reduce glucose levels, increases dopamine levels. Alcohol impacts REM and deep sleep, and your gut microbiome. The list of inter-relationships goes on and on.
It really does make a difference for me to read paper, though. It feels more tangible than reading on a device, and something about the feeling of actual progress (as opposed to infinite scrolling) seemed to both help me take in the material and also make the whole thing more satisfying.
GYM body is so good and only takes a year in the gym, I love it and it does help get rid of aches and pains.
When you do all 5 well and still feel hindered in some spaces, it really sucks. I assume I'm just extremely lazy but with a huge willpower that turns on and off. I always experienced on/off stages with work, either creativity and leisure flows, or work and engineering flows.
Every comment here starts with "see a doctor". What do you lose by trying that since it seems you already tried everything else?
I have tried that. I will see a specialist with proper over-the-top tools when I can. But the people I see are renowned for over diagnosing too these days.
2. Adderall
3. Write a journal/notes
4. Routine
For what it's worth I know how you feel. I had a bad motorcycle accident that left me in the ICU for a week and for which I had to get surgery to get fixed up. Since I had a history of concussions this one was particularly bad and I had trouble focusing for months. I used to have the kind of memory where I could recite sections of my VIN after entering it twice or thrice, and recite it in entirety if done a few more times. I have degrees in Mathematics and Physics with only one class where I took notes (the one I did the worst in). Now I don't have that memory, and it is comparatively debilitating.
I've compensated by using more to-do lists and notes and it has worked a lot better. The hardest part has been sticking to goals. I forget why I set goals which makes it hard to stick to procedures that achieve them. Fortunately for me, my wife is a substantial support, and because my cognitive skill hasn't declined as much as my memory I still get a lot of things done.
Good luck.
On a high level, what's going on in your life may not be considered the best by some "social standards", but it's not necessarily "bad".
You can start by checking if your desires are in line with the standards, or if you would rather have a more "unconventional" way of being, accept it, and try to find ways to work and relate to people from there.
The next part is that a lot of what you see as the problems are skills and you can learn them.
* Emotional regulation is a skill, it has to be learned and practiced.
* Concentration is a skill; some meditation practices are a way to develop it.
* Thinking is a skill; "real" thinking can be difficult and uncomfortable, especially at first.
* Building coherent models of reality is an advanced skill and requires thinking, modeling, verification, self-reflection, and other skills.
* Being a successful entrepreneur is a very advanced skill, requiring all of the above and much more.
Next, you can define your skill learning priorities and decide for which skills you can use some help from professionals and which skills you can train yourself.
If you do your work and come back to the same topic in a year, you will have more experience and better understanding. Identify what you're missing and keep going. Eventually you will be in the much better state.
Good luck!
See a doctor: Rule out any underlying medical conditions. Seek professional help: Therapists or coaches specializing in executive function and memory can provide personalized strategies. Develop routines and systems: Use calendars, to-do lists, and reminders to stay organized. Break down tasks: Tackle big goals in smaller, manageable steps. Practice mindfulness: Meditation and other mindfulness techniques can improve focus and emotional regulation. Connect with others: Talking to friends, family, or support groups can be helpful. Remember, you're not alone and there's help available. Start with small changes and be patient with yourself.
It is too early for me to tell definitively whether it has helped, but I think it has.
Be prepared for this to be a long process.
I'm relatively successful in tackling my mental health issues and neurodivergence, have been on therapy, medication constantly for over a decade, but when I'm in a particularly bad shape from a depression or attention deficit, I'll actually drop the very things that have worked in the past, even when I'm perfectly aware they help. It's weird and absolutely irrational.
The only advice I can give you, really, based on this personal experience, is to get a third-party to "coach" you into doing the right stuff. Anybody. It can be family, a friend, anyone. If you already have a therapist, most will be likely happy to do it. All you need is someone to hold you accountable for the stuff you know you need to do. That person will keep tabs on you for a few weeks until you follow all the obvious advice here: find a therapist, a psychiatrist, a gym, quit booze, etc. In worst case scenarios, that person can go ahead and schedule appointments for you.
Once you're in therapy and|or medication and|or good habits for a couple months, you'll get traction to do everything else, and with some luck (finding the right professional, the right drug, the right methods is a trial-and-error) you'll build up some momentum quickly and won't need anyone keeping tabs anymore.
I’ve been on the hunt for a life coach of sorts who specializes in ADHD. Ideally someone who’s familiar with tech employees & entrepreneurs, but I’m probably chasing a unicorn.
Also might be worth getting evaluated by a psychiatrist if you haven't [1].
[0] https://www.healthygamer.gg/about/coaching
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOLB-4MbrSw