Love what Hyprland has accomplished and how it has inspired other multiple projects. Even like in 2021 the only daily driver option for Wayland was Sway.
Edit: can't delete the parent. Reading the other comments about the fiasco regarding CoC, I don't want to support Hyprland unilaterally anymore, still an impressive project on the tech-side, but real life software communities are more than just the tech.
Have not tried Hyprland but on three separate occasions with three different machines I could never get Sway working. One got close but it would constantly crash.
The Sway author has strong opinions about nvidia (historically warranted), so you need to specify a magic flag (now --unsupported-gpu, previously --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia).
That's silly, and reason enough just to stay away from it. I don't like when developers try to evangelize their opinions through things like configuration variables. It's quite childish to me.
Again, historically it was warranted because Nvidia had their own strong opinions in their proprietary closed-source driver, and hardware acceleration in Wayland just straight up didn't work with said driver for many years because Nvidia was trying to push their own alternative [0], up until 2021 when they finally caved [1].
I agree that the naming of the command-line flag was childish, but I think it was reasonable to refuse to be strongarmed into doing unpaid work to support Nvidia's end-run around standards that all the other players in the space adopted.
Hyprland has way more features than Sway. There's 1:1 touch gestures, animations, and per-window screen sharing. Also there's all kinds of tiling configuration available, which allows Hyprland to do manual and/or automatic tiling.
Sway's lack of features is also its advantage, because it's been the most stable and consistent window manager/compositor experience I've ever had on Linux (X and Wayland). Hyprland sometimes has its bugs, which does make sense given how young and fast-moving the project is.
I would have never tried it without having installed Garuda on a couple boxes recently. It was the first time I've seen all the ricing done correctly. I've never been able to fully replicate the configs done by YouTubers or /r/unixporn, something always didn't quite work, usually fonts or the status bars or color themes. Garuda with hyprland is pre-riced and is extremely fast. I could absolutely notice lower latency in the console. I'm definitely going to use it more.
I've used i3 and then sway since a few years, never had any problems (nothing I remember at least).
Then I tried out hyprland, and I had multiple crashes a day, and not really saw any benefit compared to sway. I also needed to disable all of the animations which are enabled by default, because they were nauseating and made everything slower (compared to the snappieness of sway, still faster than macos/windows).
I would have probably invested some time into debugging the issues, if I had seen any reason why I would want to use Hyprland over Sway.
After a few weeks I switched back to sway, and never felt the urge to try it again.
I started with hyprland when I switched my desktop from windows to arch recently (june) and moved to sway. I ran into bugs and behaviour I don't like:
- Having two monitors and turning them off (either physically or through dpms) shifts all workspaces to the last monitor that is on, even if it's on for a split second,
- Turning off monitors (physically/dpms) caused waybar to crash.
I don't have those issues on sway, so I'll stick with it until hyprland matures a little more.
I've given hyprland two tries. The first time it was exceptionally laggy and crashed all the time. The second time (earlier this year) hyprland was performing better, but it still had enormous CPU power draw, lagged with disabled animations, for whatever reason had terrible font anti-aliasing (with the same font-config settings as sway). Maybe a full rewrite to this new stack will help, but I doubt it.
That does not make sense, wayland and xorg are fundamentally different. in X11 everything is global given that its the X.Org server that manages clients while the wayland compositor does most of the X.Org server by itself. This is also why writing a pure wayland compositor from scratch is much harder as you need to rewrite half of the X.Org server but at the same time in contrast to X11 you don't have security holes like a keylogger in few lines of code. In short, xdotool relies on the X11 protocol while a similar wayland app need a support in the compositor itself.
I don't think that's inherently true; what would prevent someone making a wayland compositor that implemented the X11 protocols for interacting with other windows?
I am aware of several of these attempts; so far they all fall flat precisely because wayland compositors tend to not provide enough API surface to actually recreate xdotool et al. entirely (ex. wtype will always blindly type into whatever window is active, it can't provide xdotool's --window option to pick where keystrokes are going).
Not that similar at all other than both having a reputation for being pretty (Enlightenment is almost 30 years old so other WM/DEs have caught up to and surpassed it on that front IMO but it had a reputation for being one of the nicer looking WMs back in the day).
Enlightenment also supports Wayland these days.
Hyprland is a tiling window manager so it is typically compared to things like i3, bspwm, xmonad, etc.
This is unrelated to that post - vaxry and wlroots was to my knowledge cooperating quite well before vaxry got banned from freedesktop (where wlroots is hosted) for breaking code of conduct and handling it in a very bad way.
personally i find it quite obnoxious when people pre-empt that i'll have a miserable time by claiming I just need thicker skin to participate and that it's okay because life is hard, in a project i might want to volunteer time and effort to. just me tho.
I joined the hyprland discord after seeing many reports of hyprland having a "toxic" community to verify the claims myself, I must say I'm disappointed. I expected to see some real raunchy stuff, instead it's quite literally one of the most trans-positive and otherwise politically milquetoast servers I'm in.
The initial rules post you have to agree to before gaining access to the server has hundreds of reactions of various trans flag emotes too.[0]
What's the problem here? The whole drama seems like virtue-signalling politically-correct FOSS devs attacking other politically-correct FOSS devs.
the CoC was a concession that resulted from the same timeframe the article i linked from, and it's very explicitly anti-contributor covenant, almost like they're reverse virtue signaling because they don't like its author or mission.
on that topic: invoking virtue signaling is a cheap way to discount the sincerity of people who's opinions you don't like. if you check the commit merging this CoC you might notice drew actually had some constructive criticism and not performative snark.
I daily drive hyprland and would recommend switching. The pace of devel is awesome. Their community gets a bad rap because they are classical liberals (i.e they express their distaste by disagreeing vigorously but they will defend your right to say something they disagree with) vs thinking someone's feelings will get hurt and that being reason enough for silencing someone. That being said, their main discord channels are kept a lot more on topic and away from sensitive topics than they have been even just a year ago, so this is mostly not a problem unless one is actively looking for a problem. Basically, if you think the triggernometry podcast is a stimulating thought exercise that you often disagree with, you will be fine. If you think it's a hate crime you won't be.
>classical liberals (i.e they express their distaste by disagreeing vigorously but they will defend your right to say something they disagree with) vs thinking someone's feelings will get hurt and that being reason enough for silencing someone.
That is not what a classical liberal is. And even if it was true please do tell me would a classical liberal view abusing administrative privilege as "classical liberal characteristic"?
Although I am not exactly sure what youare talking about when you refer to abuse of admin privilege (they said some nasty things to someone they didn't agree with and then banned them, perhaps you are referring to the banning?) A classical liberal would say you are on someone's private property that they are free to run how they please so STFU unless actual crime is being committed on the premises.
It was both banning and changing a person's server bio.
>A classical liberal would say you are on someone's private property that they are free to run how they please so STFU unless actual crime is being committed on the premises.
Two things can be true, yes a classical liberal will indeed be okay with you doing whatever you want on your premise ad long as no crime isn't committed, however it does not mean the clsssical liberal will condone the person's actions on the premise.
You don't have to condone the person's actions. I don't see how any of this makes my original statement that the community is basically classical liberals untrue. You are pointing out one person's behaviour that is consistent with classical liberalism while also being consistent with being a dick and using it to paint a whole community. None of it invalidates the original claim individually for vaxry or for the community as a whole.
> If you don’t know how to behave without a wall of text explaining how to behave online then you shouldn’t be online.
He has a point, there are people searching for drama and the only contribution they can make is a CoC. I understand wanting to keep those kinds of people away from the project.
Congratulations! Genuinely impressive achievement. I don't plan to use Hyprland but the amount of work Vaxry and the Hyprland contributors put into the project is pretty inspiring.
I was really interested in Sourcehut and some of Drew's other projects until I stumbled across his blog. The guy is completely unhinged. He writes long, expletive laden screeds against anyone in the open source community that he thinks isn't tolerant enough (these people never seem to understand the irony or futility of producing intolerant hate speech towards people that they perceive to be creators of intolerant hate speech). Basically if you offend his chosen people he will fly into a rage and seek to offend and deplatform you for years on end.
Gen Z is cooked man. All they seem to be able to do is hate each other over the topic of offensive speech. I don't know how movements like open source which managed to unite everyone manage to survive in a future society managed by Gen Z.
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[ 2.2 ms ] story [ 100.0 ms ] threadThe Sway author has strong opinions about nvidia (historically warranted), so you need to specify a magic flag (now --unsupported-gpu, previously --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia).
But yes, that's probably it.
I agree that the naming of the command-line flag was childish, but I think it was reasonable to refuse to be strongarmed into doing unpaid work to support Nvidia's end-run around standards that all the other players in the space adopted.
[0] https://www.phoronix.com/news/Streams-vs-GBM-Toolkits
[1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/NVIDIA-495.44-Linux-Driver
Sway's lack of features is also its advantage, because it's been the most stable and consistent window manager/compositor experience I've ever had on Linux (X and Wayland). Hyprland sometimes has its bugs, which does make sense given how young and fast-moving the project is.
Then I tried out hyprland, and I had multiple crashes a day, and not really saw any benefit compared to sway. I also needed to disable all of the animations which are enabled by default, because they were nauseating and made everything slower (compared to the snappieness of sway, still faster than macos/windows).
I would have probably invested some time into debugging the issues, if I had seen any reason why I would want to use Hyprland over Sway.
After a few weeks I switched back to sway, and never felt the urge to try it again.
- Having two monitors and turning them off (either physically or through dpms) shifts all workspaces to the last monitor that is on, even if it's on for a split second,
- Turning off monitors (physically/dpms) caused waybar to crash.
I don't have those issues on sway, so I'll stick with it until hyprland matures a little more.
There is some attempts though like: https://github.com/atx/wtype
> There is some attempts though like: https://github.com/atx/wtype
I am aware of several of these attempts; so far they all fall flat precisely because wayland compositors tend to not provide enough API surface to actually recreate xdotool et al. entirely (ex. wtype will always blindly type into whatever window is active, it can't provide xdotool's --window option to pick where keystrokes are going).
Enlightenment also supports Wayland these days.
Hyprland is a tiling window manager so it is typically compared to things like i3, bspwm, xmonad, etc.
i think this blog post is all you need to read if you want to know if you specifically want to engage with this community: https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists
personally i find it quite obnoxious when people pre-empt that i'll have a miserable time by claiming I just need thicker skin to participate and that it's okay because life is hard, in a project i might want to volunteer time and effort to. just me tho.
https://github.com/hyprwm/Hyprland/blob/main/CODE_OF_CONDUCT...
I joined the hyprland discord after seeing many reports of hyprland having a "toxic" community to verify the claims myself, I must say I'm disappointed. I expected to see some real raunchy stuff, instead it's quite literally one of the most trans-positive and otherwise politically milquetoast servers I'm in.
The initial rules post you have to agree to before gaining access to the server has hundreds of reactions of various trans flag emotes too.[0]
What's the problem here? The whole drama seems like virtue-signalling politically-correct FOSS devs attacking other politically-correct FOSS devs.
[0] https://imgur.com/a/HKrFtbZ
on that topic: invoking virtue signaling is a cheap way to discount the sincerity of people who's opinions you don't like. if you check the commit merging this CoC you might notice drew actually had some constructive criticism and not performative snark.
That is not what a classical liberal is. And even if it was true please do tell me would a classical liberal view abusing administrative privilege as "classical liberal characteristic"?
Since that is what went down ultimately.
>A classical liberal would say you are on someone's private property that they are free to run how they please so STFU unless actual crime is being committed on the premises.
Two things can be true, yes a classical liberal will indeed be okay with you doing whatever you want on your premise ad long as no crime isn't committed, however it does not mean the clsssical liberal will condone the person's actions on the premise.
Just because you legally tolerate it doesn't mean you ought to agree from a principle perspective.
It's the same about lying, lying is not protected under free speech but there's barely any laws against lying.
>You are pointing out one person's behaviour that is consistent with classical liberalism
This person is the admin stop trying to hide crucial details.
And their behavior is not principly classical liberal unless you believe being an authoritarian is classical liberal.
>to paint a whole community
When it comes to their discord yes, as they actively cheered on and supported said action.
He has a point, there are people searching for drama and the only contribution they can make is a CoC. I understand wanting to keep those kinds of people away from the project.
Just goes to show that vaxry made a good choice in distancing his project from Drew's. I mean who needs that sort of negativity.
Gen Z is cooked man. All they seem to be able to do is hate each other over the topic of offensive speech. I don't know how movements like open source which managed to unite everyone manage to survive in a future society managed by Gen Z.