MOSCOW, Aug 2 (Reuters) - A family of Russian sleeper agents flown to Moscow in the biggest East-West prisoner swap since the Cold War were so deep under cover that their children found out they were Russians only after the flight took off, the Kremlin said on Friday.
"Before that, they didn't know that they were Russian and that they had anything to do with our country," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.
"And you probably saw that when the children came down the plane's steps that they don't speak Russian and that Putin greeted them in Spanish. He said 'buenas noches'."
"The children asked their parents yesterday who it was that was meeting them (in Moscow). They didn't even know who Putin was. This is how the 'illegals' work. They make such sacrifices out of dedication to their work," Peskov said.
It was interesting to me too. I had a cliche Mission Impossible understanding of intelligence work... "your mission, should you accept it ... as always, should you be caught, the Secretary will disavow..."
Why would he? This is a huge russian W. He is saying:
"we peed directly into their mouth and watched for years how Western politicians and media contemplate intricacies of the aftertaste"
Maria Butina, asset responsible for collapse of NRA and Trump support landed in State Duma aka Congresswoman after previous spy exchange.
Viktor Bout, notorious arms dealer exchanged for some dope idiot, became a state deputy.
Peskov also formally confirmed Vadim Krasikov is an active FSB Alpha unit member. Same Vadim Krasikov russians swore up and down in 2019 they knew nothing about. TASS 28 Aug 2019 "Russia has no relation to murder in Germany of which Russian is suspected, says Kremlin."
Griner is a two-times Olympic golden medalist, two-times World Cup gold winner, six-time WNBA All-Star. Of course, she could be as well an idiot - I can't argue against this point of yours as I don't have sufficient data for that, but if you insist, at least please acknowledge that she is a highly-decorated idiot. What has Bout ever accomplished for Russians to be proud of or have any tangible benefits?
What Griner did hurt no one, and was no more foolish than any number of dumb things you've done in your own life. She absolutely did not deserve to have hear life nearly destroyed for the sake of Putin's sick games.
Didn't deserve it, no, but westerners like to forget that their laws and cultural norms are not the same in the rest of the world and like it or not, if you're in another country, you are on their turf and have to respect their laws, no matter how much they might conflict with your views. And some countries are much worse places than others to not follow local laws. Doing so in Russia, of all places, as an American is probably the dumbest of dumb. It's not disrespectful to say that.
Griner's arrest, sham trial and prolonged sentence weren't about differences in "cultural norms". They came about as a part of long-term game that Russia is playing, to both grab high-profile persons as trading material for prisoner swaps, and to fuck with everyone's heads generally.
That's why it's important to step outsides these shenanigans, and not focus on the foolishness of the actions of the people who get caught up in scams like this. In broader moral context (and the greater crime that is being committed), it's damn near irrelevant what Griner actually did.
As in every other situation when someone is unfairly persecuted.
It's not disrespectful to say that.
When the commentary is restricted to their actions, no. But when it's gratuitously formulated as a pejorative insult, directed specifically at the person -- who is after all caught up in a much larger drama that really isn't about them or what they allegedly did, at all -- that's exactly where it gets disrespectful.
Probably because Putin knows he's a dictator, and he doesn't have to please anyone but his henchmen. The message is "Work for me, even if they arrest you I'll get you out and bring you home a hero.". Of course a "hero" in Putin's circle, not in the West or civilized Russians' eyes, but in Putin's view, who gives a shit about them, I'm beating them/I have them under oppressive control...
Shout out to FX’s The Americans, a fictional TV show about sleeper Soviet agents in the 1980s. It’s a fantastic show, easily one of my top 3 of all time.
I honestly thought “illegals” were an urban myth. It’s wild that suck a thing can exist with modern technology and does exist.
I find it interesting that the parents in the generation shown by the Americans could have a real political philosophy that (for a believer) would justify warping their childrens lives as some kind of global freedom fighter.. This generation is being taken home by petty nationalists at best, to a nation they have no attachment to.
I'm not sure why this was flagged but I vouched because it does seem like an interesting point. I didn't finish The Americans but as I remember, one of the key tensions was between the dad who was coming to care more about living a fulfilling life with his family, and the mom who was deeper into the mission and the whole Soviet officer philosophy.
I also don't have kids, but all of my friends who do seem to see them as the most important thing in their lives. It is interesting to see the strength of ideas that can rise above that.
I don't think it's a generational thing though. I think older and younger generations are equally "susceptible" to these sorts of ideas.
You touch on an interesting point. There's an acronym I can't recall (nor find) now but when it comes to people betraying their country, there are basically 4 reasons why. I found this from the DNI [1] that lists:
- Resentment towards one's employer
- Financial need
- Ego
- Ideology
You touch on ideology. It's a big one. It's a huge reason why the Manhattan Project leaked to the Soviets so quickly and completely.
So what you're saying is that ideology would largely explain why someone would dedicate their life to being a sleeper agent like this. I tend to agree. That's an easier case to make with the USSR than it is with the Russian Federation.
It's also private killers or assassins aren't really a thing. Like it can make for great fiction but hiring a stranger to kill someone? It doesn't really happen. There's a bit of a joke that if you go on the Web and try to do such a thing, there's a 90% chance you're talking to a Fed.
This comes up with the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Many consider it a murder. I'm in the Carl Sagan camp of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". You can't really blackmail someone or pay someone to kill somebody else. So if someone did kill Epstein, it would really have to be a state actor or someone doing it for ideological reasons. If such a person worked at the MCC and had access, they'd likely expose themselves. Otherwise, getting in and out o fthe MCC pretty much requires the cooperation of people working there.
> It’s wild that suck a thing can exist with modern technology and does exist.
It's easier than you'd think. A long time fugitive was caught in my parents' community last year and it turned out that all he had to do for his cover identities was bribe a county coroner and a secretary at the vital records office to prevent death certificates from getting fully filed. The identities aren't invented whole cloth but repurposed from dead people.
(The fugitive was only caught after 20 years because he rented a car that was later used in an unrelated major crime and his DNA was flagged during the investigation)
23 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 56.6 ms ] thread"Before that, they didn't know that they were Russian and that they had anything to do with our country," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.
"And you probably saw that when the children came down the plane's steps that they don't speak Russian and that Putin greeted them in Spanish. He said 'buenas noches'."
"The children asked their parents yesterday who it was that was meeting them (in Moscow). They didn't even know who Putin was. This is how the 'illegals' work. They make such sacrifices out of dedication to their work," Peskov said.
"we peed directly into their mouth and watched for years how Western politicians and media contemplate intricacies of the aftertaste"
Maria Butina, asset responsible for collapse of NRA and Trump support landed in State Duma aka Congresswoman after previous spy exchange.
Viktor Bout, notorious arms dealer exchanged for some dope idiot, became a state deputy.
Peskov also formally confirmed Vadim Krasikov is an active FSB Alpha unit member. Same Vadim Krasikov russians swore up and down in 2019 they knew nothing about. TASS 28 Aug 2019 "Russia has no relation to murder in Germany of which Russian is suspected, says Kremlin."
Oh, and btw https://tass.com/world/1824729 "Trump describes prisoner swap as ‘phenomenal deal’ for Russia"
Griner is a two-times Olympic golden medalist, two-times World Cup gold winner, six-time WNBA All-Star. Of course, she could be as well an idiot - I can't argue against this point of yours as I don't have sufficient data for that, but if you insist, at least please acknowledge that she is a highly-decorated idiot. What has Bout ever accomplished for Russians to be proud of or have any tangible benefits?
https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-update-to-travel-adv...
"terrorism, harassment by Russian government security officials, and the arbitrary enforcement of local law."
But the accused person has more than paid their dues in regard to this matter -- so there's no need to throw petty insults at them here.
As if anyone here would say that to her face.
Show some respect.
Griner's arrest, sham trial and prolonged sentence weren't about differences in "cultural norms". They came about as a part of long-term game that Russia is playing, to both grab high-profile persons as trading material for prisoner swaps, and to fuck with everyone's heads generally.
That's why it's important to step outsides these shenanigans, and not focus on the foolishness of the actions of the people who get caught up in scams like this. In broader moral context (and the greater crime that is being committed), it's damn near irrelevant what Griner actually did.
As in every other situation when someone is unfairly persecuted.
It's not disrespectful to say that.
When the commentary is restricted to their actions, no. But when it's gratuitously formulated as a pejorative insult, directed specifically at the person -- who is after all caught up in a much larger drama that really isn't about them or what they allegedly did, at all -- that's exactly where it gets disrespectful.
I honestly thought “illegals” were an urban myth. It’s wild that suck a thing can exist with modern technology and does exist.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program
I also don't have kids, but all of my friends who do seem to see them as the most important thing in their lives. It is interesting to see the strength of ideas that can rise above that.
I don't think it's a generational thing though. I think older and younger generations are equally "susceptible" to these sorts of ideas.
At any rate a modern Americans would be very interesting in terms of how the mother could be portrayed.
- Resentment towards one's employer
- Financial need
- Ego
- Ideology
You touch on ideology. It's a big one. It's a huge reason why the Manhattan Project leaked to the Soviets so quickly and completely.
So what you're saying is that ideology would largely explain why someone would dedicate their life to being a sleeper agent like this. I tend to agree. That's an easier case to make with the USSR than it is with the Russian Federation.
It's also private killers or assassins aren't really a thing. Like it can make for great fiction but hiring a stranger to kill someone? It doesn't really happen. There's a bit of a joke that if you go on the Web and try to do such a thing, there's a 90% chance you're talking to a Fed.
This comes up with the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Many consider it a murder. I'm in the Carl Sagan camp of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". You can't really blackmail someone or pay someone to kill somebody else. So if someone did kill Epstein, it would really have to be a state actor or someone doing it for ideological reasons. If such a person worked at the MCC and had access, they'd likely expose themselves. Otherwise, getting in and out o fthe MCC pretty much requires the cooperation of people working there.
[1]: https://www.dni.gov/files/NCSC/documents/campaign/Espionage....
It's easier than you'd think. A long time fugitive was caught in my parents' community last year and it turned out that all he had to do for his cover identities was bribe a county coroner and a secretary at the vital records office to prevent death certificates from getting fully filed. The identities aren't invented whole cloth but repurposed from dead people.
(The fugitive was only caught after 20 years because he rented a car that was later used in an unrelated major crime and his DNA was flagged during the investigation)