In Safari on iOS I can zoom in on the page with whatever that reverse-pinch gesture is called. I think Apple also came to that same conclusion as you guys quite a few years ago that allowing the website owner to prevent the user from zooming in on pages on the phone was incredibly user-hostile and so they stopped honoring the part of the meta viewport html5 tag that specifies that the page cannot be zoomed in.
I can’t take this company seriously after all the R1 nonsense. I get that no product is perfect in its first version but it sure feels malicious how they fooled everyone with what they promised vs what they delivered.
Fwiw Teenage Engineering is a design firm who was originally contracted by Rabbit to design the physical device. I don't think they had anything to do with the functionality.
That’s a good point, I guess they didn’t have any hand in the software…just seems icky to me.
I trusted the product mainly because of their name, it’s hard for me to understand how they didn’t see what the underlying product was when they attached their name to it.
Teenage Engineering use a type of design that is intended to obfuscate the functionality of the device. For example, their Pocket Operator series use LCD displays which have very little utility to the experience of music-making. The OP1 has an OLED display which mostly displays non-sequitur nonsense.
Those of us who despise Teenage Engineering are reacting to a design ethos which devalues the users knowledge and understanding of what they are doing, over whimsical non-sequitur. You're not getting a musical instrument - you're getting a device, which despite itself, can nevertheless be used to make some kind of music.
That's the beauty of music, not the device. You can make music with anything.
So the feeling among those of us who also make musical instruments is that Teenage Engineering are packaging up an inherent feature of music and selling it to people in a fancy way - they don't really care about the music-making features, which are almost secondary to their effort to design aesthetically appealing, moderately functional, expensive toys.
And in that light, it makes complete sense that they would involve themselves in the Rabbit R1. The impression is that Teenage Engineering kind of despise their customers, who they think are dumb, and they therefore invest in non-sequitur aesthetics in lieu of smart design that pushes the industry forward. Teenage Engineering ship exploitation and ridicule - they don't make finely crafted instruments for musicians to hone their skills. Most great musicians who play with an OP1 and make music with it, do so despite the devices' many roadblocks to creativity.
While Rabbit Inc is a separate entity, they are more deeply intertwined than a mere design contract. Rabbit's CEO, Jesse Lyu, is on TE's board of directors. TE's CEO, Jesper Kouthoofd, is employed by Rabbit as "Chief Design Officer".
The world would be missing something if we didn't have creative geniuses off in the corner making art for art's sake, accessible for the masses to keep at home.
Yeah, this seems like one of those April Fool's jokes that for all intents and purposes seems like a joke but is an actual product that you can buy. Kinda like how Gmail with its massive 1 GB of storage was announced on the first of April.
Yes, is this a slight hardware refresh to the EP-133 with a new skin and different factory presets?
The KO-1 had a similar "Street Fighter" edition, which could be loaded with the original PO-33 samples.
Are there any reasons not to buy this over the EP-133 from a pure capability standpoint? I wish the marketing were a bit clearer on that front, seems we need to intuit this by diving into the specs and capabilities ourselves.
There are new features in the software (presumably implementable on the original if they choose to) but the new one has twice as much memory, with the new samples taking up 75% of that.
Did they resolve the intense hardware bugs with the EP-133? I haven't been following after basically giving up on TE due to this (EP-133) being the second time they sold me a lemon.
I ordered the KO-II for a friend, after reading about it on Hacker News. I love Teenage Engineering's playfulness and creativity, but was disappointed when the KO-II had quality issues with its input nob, making it unusable.
They were quick to issue a refund, but I would have loved to see them fix the underlying issue and offer us another unit. I'd have the same concerns about this model, since it looks like it uses the same base hardware.
An interesting video came up on my YouTube recommendations last month that compares bardcore (and neo-medieval) to actual medieval music [1].
Western music underwent a huge change after medieval times moving from a modal system to a tonal system. Bardcore is tonal music trying to evoke a medieval vibe, and it often succeeds quite well...but it is still far different from what actual medieval music would have sounded like. If you like bardcore but are curious what historically accurate medieval music would have been like, you might enjoy the video.
Someone please help this little skeptic: is that video real, or Midjourney? The short cuts make me think Midjourney, but then they have a shot with their product in it.
Well yeah, mostly that it has a ton of actors and setpieces (and a horse!) for what AFAICT is a joke product. I mean, it's perhaps not a joke, but... surely anyone who actually wanted to be a touring musician with this kind of music would just load up sounds onto a regular board? Is "musicians who don't even know the genre they'll use professionally yet" a valid market in the first place?
And it consists of short, highly composed shots, which is how non-professional (read: non-Sora) AI videos are these days. They create the individual images then animate them into 2-4 second clips with slight, predictable movement.
> Is "musicians who don't even know the genre they'll use professionally yet" a valid market in the first place?
That's not really Teenage Engineering's primary market, in the same way Rolex's primary market isn't "people who need to tell the time". Both T.E and Rolex products do their jobs really well, but the people buying them are buying more for the aesthetic than the function.
Teenage Engineering are primarily a design boutique, although musicians do use their products their main audience are collectors / audiophiles / graphic designers going through a mid-life crisis.
There are two big sides to the iPad market, the "spend more than >$1000 for a designer/pro tool" side and the "it's just a good <$500 tablet" side. The latter probably gets 5x-10x the amount of use per purchase, especially by younger audiences.
> Is "musicians who don't even know the genre they'll use professionally yet" a valid market in the first place?
Genre is contextual. An instrument can “sound like” one genre solo / when highlighted, yet contribute an entirely different sound when submerged in the mix.
Modern country music uses “disco” instruments but not in a way that sounds like disco. A guzheng makes pretty much the same sound as a banjo, but nobody notices because the music the two instruments conventionally get used in doesn’t have much overlap (in play style, but also in terms of what other instruments are used together with them.) A fiddle is literally just a violin, but they’re used so differently that people call them different names (mostly because a “trained fiddler” knows a very different skill than a “trained violinist.”)
Also, there are music genres that just use “everything”, with musicians constantly looking for a new sound for every track they put out. Industrial and electro are both like this.
In short, there are plenty of professional musicians — especially live keyboardists — that already have a setup, but still hunt for new instruments/effects to achieve a new “sound”. (Normally that’s just through VST plugins, sure, but there’s also a thriving market for physical old analog synths that haven’t been digitally replicated yet — and this product is clearly intended to appeal to people used to buying in that market.)
Which video is 11 years old...? The release video for this project that seems to be copyrighted 2024? This is the most baffling response I could've received, so I'm quite curious!
They thought you were referring to the Holy Mountain movie clip from YouTube that the parent comment shared.
When you said "that video", it was ambiguous whether "that" referred to the promo video or the one the comment shared. It seemed fairly clear to me that you'd be asking an AI question about the 2024 promo video and not the one from 1973, but it evidently wasn't clear enough as multiple people have assumed the latter.
Apparently I'm the official translator for both sides of this conversation.
Watching The Holy Mountain, I felt like my life had been divided in 2 - that which came before watching it, and that which came after. Sure is an experience, and I certainly can't unsee a lot of it.
The horse in the circle of fire is also a quote from Phillipe Garrel's "La Cicatrice Intérieure", a rather obscure surrealist film from the 70s (starring and scored by Nico/Christa Päffgen!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JYiADaKJ3A
Whoa. I didn't realize the whole movie was on YouTube! Randomly skipped to https://youtu.be/aPtxS1c-fGA?t=1187 which contains a tossed silver ball which Teenage Engineering seem to be quoting almost verbatim in their video.
I think their target audience are well-heeled Apple customers who like to imagine that they are musicians. Hacker culture doesn't have a "collector of expensive African originals" role, so "amateur who collects equipment far out of proportion to the time they invest in using any of it" has formed to collect the same psychological energy. It's about the combination of the creator fantasy on the surface backed up by the collector's motives beneath.
It is a very common way to present as a consumer in hobby markets, but it has elaborated itself to a great degree in this case because hobbyist musicians aren't surrounded by retired session artists the way, for example, woodworkers are surrounded by retired tradesmen.
I glossed over the "Apple" dimension of elevating plastic stuff to luxury goods by being amazingly careful about injection molding marks etc, but I don't know a lot about it. I think the daring fireball guy is the recognized expert on the consumer experience side of it.
I don’t think they make cranes tall enough to get you off that high horse. This thing is cheaper than my crappy middle school beginner trumpet was and professional musicians don’t have a monopoly on making or experimenting with music.
You’re not totally wrong, just mostly. I use Apple stuff. I bought an EP-133 at launch. That part was true.
I also spent thousands of hours with a MIDI setup on my Amiga when I was in high school, teaching myself how to program the little FM synth my parents bought me for Christmas, and learning the theory of what makes a drum pattern sound good.
I don’t have thousands of hours available anymore. I still want to dabble sometimes though. Those are skills I worked very hard to learn, I enjoy exercising them, and I don’t want them to atrophy. That specific Teenage Engineering device has all the things I want to play with in a single portable box that also manages to be dirt cheap for what all it does.
Some people drive BMWs because they want to be seen driving them. Others drive them because — get this — turns out they’re nice cars to drive. At $300, my EP-133 isn’t exactly the BMW of musical instruments. It still does a hell of a job of scratching my musical itch. I couldn’t care less if anyone else ever sees me playing with it. I hope they never do. I got it for me, to enjoy, to make (bad) music with so I can get songs out of my head and into my ears. Sorry-not-sorry if that’s not “real musician” enough for some. I don’t care. I’m still having fun.
Yes, fun is the key value. It is fun to play with a music toy, with a near-useless interface, and still get 'something' out of it. That is a key factor in their design principles - make some expensive whimsical toy that GAS-afflicted punters will invest in.
Meanwhile, you can spend the money on even more powerful devices and avoid the frustrating UI experience for which Teenage Engineering are infamous.
Sure, you can make music with a toy - thats the beauty of music, not the toy.
Your comparison of TE to BMW is apt. As is OP’s comparison to Apple.
For those of us who have raced cars on a track, we see the BMW E36 M3 (90s) as the last proper race worthy vehicle. People who drive BMWs now just want a “nice car to drive” and spirited drivers don’t want anything to do with them.
Likewise, people who use TE instruments want to feel like they are making music, even though they are not using the hardware or software conducive to do so.
I agree with you that BMW and TE aren’t the gear that hardcore professionals would reach for, but enthusiasts who enjoy those respective activities can get a lot of enjoyment out of.
Both make stuff for people who enjoy nice things, no pretention required.
I don’t know, I got an OP-1 to play with many years ago and I seldomly recognise presets or effects when listening to music from talented and successful musicians. Which makes me realise that I have some skills issues when I compare with the noise I make.
Blasphemy! Thou shalt not present such claims without the proper scrolls and ledgers of sales to substantiate. Ist thou not acquainted with the more-expensive instruments of musical synthesis available?
Me too, which is why the whole Rabbit R1 debacle was so surprising, not just that they did the design for it, but that some of their leadership was so deeply involved in it.
I think that's a little unfair as an assessment of their design. Good design is generally considered to include functionality, and from what I've seen of their products they do generally have good functionality. Sometimes that might be a little at the cost of the visual design (the OP-1 doesn't look like the most accessible tool), but on the whole I think they make products that are good overall.
I am not a fan of Teenage Engineering (Disclaimer: I make audio products too).
The reason is, they set a standard for useless gimmicks which are far, far too expensive, designed to appeal to style over substance.
The OP1 is one of the most over-rated 'instruments' out there. It has a fancy, expensive OLED, a fancy, expensive casing, and useless gimmicks. The OLED never really shows you anything useful to the act of music-making. This is true of their Pocket Operators as well - its nearly all stylistic whimsy over functionality.
Save yourself the hassle and frustration of using a Teenage Engineering product and either buy the parts and make yourself an LMN3[0], or invest in devices that don't take the piss out of the user, such as the 1010Music Bluebox or Synthstrom Deluge.
The musical-instrument industry is rife with people who want to rip off the punters, who they know for a fact are easily afflicted with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), resulting in customers across the globe who end up stashing their expensive, sexy-looking (but functionally retarded) toys in the drawer after a period of glib usage.
I am over TE. Just today I was looking at the OP-1 that's had a dead key since it was about a year old and been completely non bootable since a year or so after that. With the EP-133 I made the mistake of believing TE would do a better job of the practical design of their instruments. But it broke with interface problems reported by thousands of people. TE wasn't very supportive of my repair request and I don't have time to chase them for a replacement of something fundamentally broken. I don't want more objects that won't last.
Yes, this is a common refrain I have heard from musicians and hobbyists lured in by the aesthetics, only to be frustrated with the actual functionality after a week or two.
Fortunately, there are other manufacturers who "get it" and make instruments, not toys.
The problem of TE and self admitted by their CEO (in Figma's Config talk) is that they won't listen to users feedback. They are really good in design and terrible in compromising. They make toys, which can be used as musical instruments (like anything else that makes sound), the reason I call them toys is because they have the most glaring blind spots which prevent them to just be called "music instruments". Even their flagship OP-1 suffers from this and it has a ridiculous price tag. Till they get down from their high horse and start implementing basic functionality for musicians, these machines will never reach their potential.
The Pocket Operators are the best Price-to-ActuallyFunctional thing that TE produce. They are very immediate and fun to use. Everything else they do is extreme bait.
> The OLED never really shows you anything useful to the act of music-making.
Thou art prone to hyperbole! Said instrument of synthesis ("Operator-1") has a step sequencer, mixer, ADSR envelopes, recorder, and other useful indications for the bard. One ponders how thou hast not consulted the scrolls [1].
I owned an OP1 from the day it was released until 6 days after I discovered it rotting in a drawer, unused, in a room full of far better examples of synthesizer interface. I tried really hard to accept Teenage Engineering's priority of non-sequitur over functionality.
Sure, the OLED occasionally shows you a few things. But its completely useless compared to, say, the utility eked out of the display of the Deluge, or Bluebox. By comparison to either of these devices, the OP1 is unacceptably paltry for the price.
And then, there are the Pocket Operators. Don't get me started on just how useless that very expensive bespoke LCD print is to the musician...
Has anyone began dabbling in music production, just to play with some of teenage engineering's gadgets?
I'm pretty sure if I bought one, it would just sit in my cupboard, but I'm looking for an excuse to buy one, has anyone here gotten more use out of one of their gadgets than they expected they would?
Doing music with hardware outside of the computer is way different than making music on the computer. I probably tried for 10 years to get into music making via the computer, but never really got into the flow of it. A week after purchasing my first hardware some years ago (the first Novation Circuit), I had already starting putting together full tracks and it was a lot more engaging.
So even if you try out LMMS/FL Studio/Ableton/making-music-on-a-computer and don't like it, doesn't mean you don't like making music at all, maybe it's just the wrong workflow for you.
unless you're a really big fan of TE there really isn't ever a reason to buy anything they make other than maybe the pocket operators. it's all overpriced shit which doesn't make sense to buy when compared with competing products. for example this thing makes zero sense when the sp404mk2 exists.
I’m not a fan per se of TE, but I did get the OP-Z as a continuation of playing with the POs.
I still like it but I’m already trying to find something to eventually replace it with. But is there really something out there with similar size, features, and price as the OP-Z? I would like to find something.
i'd definitely prefer to buy an mc-101 over an OP-Z personally if you want something in the same sort of price range. if you can spend a bit more, i'd look into the dirtywave m8 if the workflow appeals to you. i have one and it's my favourite piece of audio hardware that i own.
of course virtually any computer with a DAW is the real best answer in terms of features and price, but i understand the urge to want to be away from a computer while creating.
A Pocket Operator was my entry drug to hardware music making. Having only dabbled with DAWs which never felt quite right (still sitting in front of a computer, having nearly infinite choices between plugins and sounds).
After playing with the PO-33 for a few weeks I quickly reached its limits and bought a groove box (not from TE). Still have the PO-33 lying around, ready to be played by me or guests that find it intriguing.
Maybe start with something cheaper to evaluate if it's something you want to do long-term, and if it fits, start looking at the TE stuff, you'll know better what you want then too.
Good entrypoint is the Novation Circuit family of devices. Circuit Rhythm is mainly around sampling and a drum machine, Circuit Tracks a all-in-one groovebox. Both of them are a lot of fun :)
Eventually you'll probably be better served by some Elektron device, still high price point but UX is a lot better/discoverable + lots of features in every single box.
Doubt those are individual "7 segment LEDs", more likely it's just a light-pipe with a specialized shape, and white LEDs beneath. There's another very similar device on their website with slightly differently shaped "7 segment LEDs".
Initially I also though that they are just using same trick as what they have for rest of the custom colored indicator shapes. But after looking at some teardown videos of EP-133 it seems to be using real 3x(10+1)segment display module for the number section.
So this might still be specially shape mask on top that 10 segment display. But considering that it by itself isn't exactly common (compared to 7 or even 14 and 16 segment displays) I wouldn't be too surprised if they were able to find a factory in china that would make a customized segment led modules in batches of few thousands. At the end of day what are 7 segment displays if not a bunch of LEDs and light guides molded into single plastic case. It wouldn't be cheap but for a premium product with focus on visual design and experience like what the teenage engineer makes it doesn't seem impossible.
As for something more accessible to a hobbyists - people have been experimenting with placing custom cutouts on top of LED displays with quite good looking results.
It can be as simple as thin laser cut stencil on top of LED matrix display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLgUtjyKO6Q
With thicker 3d printed mask you can even shift the positions of segments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt2merZcuno
It’s fascinating trying to play any kind of tune on the pads of this device when in “keys” mode. I have the sibling model and find it almost impossible to produce anything that sounds “normal”. I don’t really mind — it’s hardly meant to be a piano after all — and it certainly makes for an interesting phenomenon. It’s also one I think the designers nod to: the pads can be retuned to different scales suggesting a complete break from any kind of equal temperament octaves.
While I haven’t had the chance to ride one, I imagine it is the same feeling as riding a joke bike where the headset is geared to invert the sense of the handlebars (left is right, right is left) or using a pair of circlip pliers where squeezing the handles opens the jaws rather than closing them.
Alas, Teenage Engineering really set themselves a high bar with the OP-1 and I still don’t think they’ve ever come close to it. The OP-Z just didn’t compete without a screen, the pocket operators (and the K.O. II and Medieval, which have the same interface) have a much less intuitive design language, their IKEA lights are controlled by colour coded, identically shaped controls on the back, etc.
They are all lovely products at good price points that do their jobs delightfully but when they came from the same studio as the OP-1 it is like comparing a Pininfarina Peugeot 205 with a Pininfarina Ferrari 250.
I had their OP-1 for a long while till I had to part with it for some emergency cash. It was a truly delightful thing to play with and lost neither charm nor monetary value even years later.
> the pads can be retuned to different scales suggesting a complete break from any kind of equal temperament octaves.
I was kind of curious about this since in the medieval era, equal temperament wasn't used very much. But it just allows retuning to major/minor and modes in equal temperament, as far as I can tell. Would be an excellent device for medieval music if it could be tuned to meantone, Pythagorean and so on!
Yes, exactly - minor/major and modes in 12TET (as well as pentatonic but that's just major/minor with fewer notes).
What would be interesting with this synth (something other synths, like my Korg Monologue, can do) is being able to tune to different temperaments, i.e. not 12 TET - for this synth especially, since 12 TET was rarely used in the medieval period in favour of pythagorean or meantone tuning.
Thanks for elaborating. I should have been clearer that I was just quoting the docs and have no idea what I’m talking about. Your comments have given me some interesting things to read (listen?) up on, later :)
If you like synths/electronic music, and you're interested in listening to music in other temperaments/tunings, check out the artist Sevish. He also designed a web app for creating alternate tunings: https://sevish.com/scaleworkshop
340 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 299 ms ] threadYou can't even see the whole device without scrolling.
I trusted the product mainly because of their name, it’s hard for me to understand how they didn’t see what the underlying product was when they attached their name to it.
Those of us who despise Teenage Engineering are reacting to a design ethos which devalues the users knowledge and understanding of what they are doing, over whimsical non-sequitur. You're not getting a musical instrument - you're getting a device, which despite itself, can nevertheless be used to make some kind of music.
That's the beauty of music, not the device. You can make music with anything.
So the feeling among those of us who also make musical instruments is that Teenage Engineering are packaging up an inherent feature of music and selling it to people in a fancy way - they don't really care about the music-making features, which are almost secondary to their effort to design aesthetically appealing, moderately functional, expensive toys.
And in that light, it makes complete sense that they would involve themselves in the Rabbit R1. The impression is that Teenage Engineering kind of despise their customers, who they think are dumb, and they therefore invest in non-sequitur aesthetics in lieu of smart design that pushes the industry forward. Teenage Engineering ship exploitation and ridicule - they don't make finely crafted instruments for musicians to hone their skills. Most great musicians who play with an OP1 and make music with it, do so despite the devices' many roadblocks to creativity.
https://www.rabbit.tech/newsroom/teenage-engineering-jesper-...
I'll get it when we upgrade Spitfire this year.
- 128MB memory including 96MB ROM sounds and 32MB user sample memory on the Medieval
vs
- 64 MB memory, or 999 sample slots on the K.O. II.
The KO-1 had a similar "Street Fighter" edition, which could be loaded with the original PO-33 samples.
Are there any reasons not to buy this over the EP-133 from a pure capability standpoint? I wish the marketing were a bit clearer on that front, seems we need to intuit this by diving into the specs and capabilities ourselves.
I bought a EP-133 KO II when it first came out but quickly sold it after a few weeks - it wasn't my jam.
They were quick to issue a refund, but I would have loved to see them fix the underlying issue and offer us another unit. I'd have the same concerns about this model, since it looks like it uses the same base hardware.
I just heard their medieval version of "somebody that I used to know" -- https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ch1aVmjvYTI
The lyrical changes were wonderful.
Hildegard von Blingin' covers Hildegard Von Bingen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9K9PfjRjxM
I bought the '82 vinyl in '82: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Feather_on_the_Breath_of_God
which has seen a little more popularity recently, judging by the number of views this got: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP9_XmmmIk0
Western music underwent a huge change after medieval times moving from a modal system to a tonal system. Bardcore is tonal music trying to evoke a medieval vibe, and it often succeeds quite well...but it is still far different from what actual medieval music would have sounded like. If you like bardcore but are curious what historically accurate medieval music would have been like, you might enjoy the video.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6_8ZEhmaGE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Mountain_(1973_film)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdXGhsAynGI
What was it about the video that made you think it's generative? That it's surrealistic?
And it consists of short, highly composed shots, which is how non-professional (read: non-Sora) AI videos are these days. They create the individual images then animate them into 2-4 second clips with slight, predictable movement.
Musicians are a funny bunch, just because there’s a simple way of doing something doesn’t mean that that’s what they’ll do.
That's not really Teenage Engineering's primary market, in the same way Rolex's primary market isn't "people who need to tell the time". Both T.E and Rolex products do their jobs really well, but the people buying them are buying more for the aesthetic than the function.
Teenage Engineering are primarily a design boutique, although musicians do use their products their main audience are collectors / audiophiles / graphic designers going through a mid-life crisis.
(This one came pretty close to getting me)
Not unlike the iPad market.
Genre is contextual. An instrument can “sound like” one genre solo / when highlighted, yet contribute an entirely different sound when submerged in the mix.
Modern country music uses “disco” instruments but not in a way that sounds like disco. A guzheng makes pretty much the same sound as a banjo, but nobody notices because the music the two instruments conventionally get used in doesn’t have much overlap (in play style, but also in terms of what other instruments are used together with them.) A fiddle is literally just a violin, but they’re used so differently that people call them different names (mostly because a “trained fiddler” knows a very different skill than a “trained violinist.”)
Also, there are music genres that just use “everything”, with musicians constantly looking for a new sound for every track they put out. Industrial and electro are both like this.
In short, there are plenty of professional musicians — especially live keyboardists — that already have a setup, but still hunt for new instruments/effects to achieve a new “sound”. (Normally that’s just through VST plugins, sure, but there’s also a thriving market for physical old analog synths that haven’t been digitally replicated yet — and this product is clearly intended to appeal to people used to buying in that market.)
When you said "that video", it was ambiguous whether "that" referred to the promo video or the one the comment shared. It seemed fairly clear to me that you'd be asking an AI question about the 2024 promo video and not the one from 1973, but it evidently wasn't clear enough as multiple people have assumed the latter.
Apparently I'm the official translator for both sides of this conversation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Color_of_Pomegranates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPtxS1c-fGA
It is a very common way to present as a consumer in hobby markets, but it has elaborated itself to a great degree in this case because hobbyist musicians aren't surrounded by retired session artists the way, for example, woodworkers are surrounded by retired tradesmen.
I also spent thousands of hours with a MIDI setup on my Amiga when I was in high school, teaching myself how to program the little FM synth my parents bought me for Christmas, and learning the theory of what makes a drum pattern sound good.
I don’t have thousands of hours available anymore. I still want to dabble sometimes though. Those are skills I worked very hard to learn, I enjoy exercising them, and I don’t want them to atrophy. That specific Teenage Engineering device has all the things I want to play with in a single portable box that also manages to be dirt cheap for what all it does.
Some people drive BMWs because they want to be seen driving them. Others drive them because — get this — turns out they’re nice cars to drive. At $300, my EP-133 isn’t exactly the BMW of musical instruments. It still does a hell of a job of scratching my musical itch. I couldn’t care less if anyone else ever sees me playing with it. I hope they never do. I got it for me, to enjoy, to make (bad) music with so I can get songs out of my head and into my ears. Sorry-not-sorry if that’s not “real musician” enough for some. I don’t care. I’m still having fun.
Meanwhile, you can spend the money on even more powerful devices and avoid the frustrating UI experience for which Teenage Engineering are infamous.
Sure, you can make music with a toy - thats the beauty of music, not the toy.
For those of us who have raced cars on a track, we see the BMW E36 M3 (90s) as the last proper race worthy vehicle. People who drive BMWs now just want a “nice car to drive” and spirited drivers don’t want anything to do with them.
Likewise, people who use TE instruments want to feel like they are making music, even though they are not using the hardware or software conducive to do so.
Both make stuff for people who enjoy nice things, no pretention required.
So they do sell to "real" musicians too.
Alas, I do not. :(
The reason is, they set a standard for useless gimmicks which are far, far too expensive, designed to appeal to style over substance.
The OP1 is one of the most over-rated 'instruments' out there. It has a fancy, expensive OLED, a fancy, expensive casing, and useless gimmicks. The OLED never really shows you anything useful to the act of music-making. This is true of their Pocket Operators as well - its nearly all stylistic whimsy over functionality.
Save yourself the hassle and frustration of using a Teenage Engineering product and either buy the parts and make yourself an LMN3[0], or invest in devices that don't take the piss out of the user, such as the 1010Music Bluebox or Synthstrom Deluge.
The musical-instrument industry is rife with people who want to rip off the punters, who they know for a fact are easily afflicted with GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), resulting in customers across the globe who end up stashing their expensive, sexy-looking (but functionally retarded) toys in the drawer after a period of glib usage.
[0] - https://github.com/FundamentalFrequency
[1] - https://1010music.com/
[2] - https://synthstrom.com/
Fortunately, there are other manufacturers who "get it" and make instruments, not toys.
Thou art prone to hyperbole! Said instrument of synthesis ("Operator-1") has a step sequencer, mixer, ADSR envelopes, recorder, and other useful indications for the bard. One ponders how thou hast not consulted the scrolls [1].
[1] https://teenage.engineering/_img/54b7f9bf8681400300255cab_or...
Sure, the OLED occasionally shows you a few things. But its completely useless compared to, say, the utility eked out of the display of the Deluge, or Bluebox. By comparison to either of these devices, the OP1 is unacceptably paltry for the price.
And then, there are the Pocket Operators. Don't get me started on just how useless that very expensive bespoke LCD print is to the musician...
I absolutely hate the rounded rectangular buttons within the hard square cut-outs.
i'm not the market, so maybe I just don't know what i'm judging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaIx0KMOg5I
Looks great blown up on a 4K monitor due to extensive use of SVG.
I'm pretty sure if I bought one, it would just sit in my cupboard, but I'm looking for an excuse to buy one, has anyone here gotten more use out of one of their gadgets than they expected they would?
So even if you try out LMMS/FL Studio/Ableton/making-music-on-a-computer and don't like it, doesn't mean you don't like making music at all, maybe it's just the wrong workflow for you.
https://teenage.engineering/products/po
Good to get your feet wet without breaking your wallet.
Unlike the more expensive products these are harder to work into a computer based work flow. But they are fun.
They have one that has “office sound” samples, which is wierd.
This midieval device looks a bit like a giant more functional pocket operator.
I still like it but I’m already trying to find something to eventually replace it with. But is there really something out there with similar size, features, and price as the OP-Z? I would like to find something.
of course virtually any computer with a DAW is the real best answer in terms of features and price, but i understand the urge to want to be away from a computer while creating.
After playing with the PO-33 for a few weeks I quickly reached its limits and bought a groove box (not from TE). Still have the PO-33 lying around, ready to be played by me or guests that find it intriguing.
Good entrypoint is the Novation Circuit family of devices. Circuit Rhythm is mainly around sampling and a drum machine, Circuit Tracks a all-in-one groovebox. Both of them are a lot of fun :)
Eventually you'll probably be better served by some Elektron device, still high price point but UX is a lot better/discoverable + lots of features in every single box.
So this might still be specially shape mask on top that 10 segment display. But considering that it by itself isn't exactly common (compared to 7 or even 14 and 16 segment displays) I wouldn't be too surprised if they were able to find a factory in china that would make a customized segment led modules in batches of few thousands. At the end of day what are 7 segment displays if not a bunch of LEDs and light guides molded into single plastic case. It wouldn't be cheap but for a premium product with focus on visual design and experience like what the teenage engineer makes it doesn't seem impossible.
As for something more accessible to a hobbyists - people have been experimenting with placing custom cutouts on top of LED displays with quite good looking results. It can be as simple as thin laser cut stencil on top of LED matrix display https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLgUtjyKO6Q With thicker 3d printed mask you can even shift the positions of segments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt2merZcuno
While I haven’t had the chance to ride one, I imagine it is the same feeling as riding a joke bike where the headset is geared to invert the sense of the handlebars (left is right, right is left) or using a pair of circlip pliers where squeezing the handles opens the jaws rather than closing them.
Alas, Teenage Engineering really set themselves a high bar with the OP-1 and I still don’t think they’ve ever come close to it. The OP-Z just didn’t compete without a screen, the pocket operators (and the K.O. II and Medieval, which have the same interface) have a much less intuitive design language, their IKEA lights are controlled by colour coded, identically shaped controls on the back, etc.
They are all lovely products at good price points that do their jobs delightfully but when they came from the same studio as the OP-1 it is like comparing a Pininfarina Peugeot 205 with a Pininfarina Ferrari 250.
I was kind of curious about this since in the medieval era, equal temperament wasn't used very much. But it just allows retuning to major/minor and modes in equal temperament, as far as I can tell. Would be an excellent device for medieval music if it could be tuned to meantone, Pythagorean and so on!
What would be interesting with this synth (something other synths, like my Korg Monologue, can do) is being able to tune to different temperaments, i.e. not 12 TET - for this synth especially, since 12 TET was rarely used in the medieval period in favour of pythagorean or meantone tuning.
https://www.yankodesign.com/2022/07/27/teenage-engineering-b...
>This is a fan-made concept and isn’t affiliated with Teenage Engineering