… Wait, when did the UK descend into totalitarianism? Weird chaos, yes, for years. Totalitarianism, not so much (you could argue that Patel was that way inclined, but far too incompetent to actually do that much about it).
I’m shocked to hear that I am apparently living under totalitarianism, and would love to see some concrete examples of this dramatic shift in Labour party policy, rather than vague gesturing.
the continued decline of transgender rights and support of the same in civil society. the UK has always been jokingly referred to as TERF Island, but more recently, after the made-to-order Cass review that goes against all known research in the field and was authored by a biased party (even consulting with the architect of the florida ban on transitioning), organizations that'd usually staunchly support transgender rights like Stonewall and Pink News are pulling back. newspapers have turned up the anti-trans rhetoric to 11 as well, and especially in England no mainstream party is refusing to participate in the moral panic. it has ceased to be a culture war, and is now much more of a cultural consensus. the common punching bag.
that looks pretty dire for civil society to me. i didn't call it totalitarian, but it sure looks like a precursor to it.
Oh, yeah, the UK has big problems. Brexit more or less broke it (I’m half convinced that the Tory trans obsession was borne out of a need for distraction after Brexit was no longer looking so good for them…)
It's a worrying direction if the forth estate is this defunct and populism is at an all time high. How the UK treats trans people (not sure if they're the most vulnerable, but they're vulnerable and easy targets) is just one very poignant example of the shift.
Cass and her team did an excellent job assessing the available evidence and current clinical practice. Anyone who has read the Review with an open mind, and considers the wellbeing of children first and foremost, can see that.
There's a great deal of ideologically-driven pushback to her team's work, mostly from people without expertise in the field. But that can be safely ignored due to not being based upon evidence nor reason.
That's why the British Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society and the Canadian Pediatric Society all were in total agree-- wait they weren't.
And the Cass Review cites a lot of studies in alignment with the study quality in a minority population -- oh wait, it disregards over 100 studies outright, putting a bar where it can't possibly be met, and then ignored that requirement for the body of studies that agree with her preexisting ideas.
Because it's so easy to defend the Cass review, you used your established HN account and not a sockpu-- wait you didn't.
And Cass totally didn't consult with Patrick Hunter. Almost like she wanted advice on how to replicate the ban in Florida. Not at all.
If you want the cherry on top, before the review, Cass supposedly recommended clinicians read the culture-war work "Irreversible Damage" - a book that compares doctors providing gender affirming care with nazi human experimentation (godwin's law in full force here), completely eliminating the notion that she was a neutral party when the review started.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate you addressing the actual problems with the work instead of a blind reaffirmation that it is scientific and everyone else is paid off by big pharma or something (or what's the implication here?)
A telling response. I can see which bubble of social media complainers you've been listening to on this, based of which of their talking points you've picked up.
Yep, keep it vague. Keep attacking me and my supposedly biased media diet instead of the actual points listed. Totally makes you look reasonable and logical and enlightened.
So, did you sign up for HN just for this? Do you have a Google Alert for "Cass review"? Can one follow (block) you on X?
I'm english and although everything is a bit run down and creaking, we're not going through totalitarianism, in fact, we just had an election which unlike the US preceded an orderly transfer of power.
Maybe totalitarianism is the wrong word and not 100% correct by definition, but I'm certainly struggling to find a single word to define the direction the UK is descending into. It's definitely a descent, and it's definitely not looking pretty with no hope of recovery that I can see.
I mean, geeze, just the hate-speech laws that are being used to punish wrong-think. That alone should scare you to the bone.
A couple of old fogies down in Tunbridge Wells, "I say old chap, how very uncouth." Meanwhile everyone else, "It's been almost 50 years since Fawlty Towers. Took them long enough."
The absolute funniest moment of my entire life happened to me in Germany.
I was on a theatre tour (as Technical Director), the show had ended, it was late and night and everyone was tired after a long day and packing everything away. The German host gathered us together and stood on a chair to tell us about accommodation arrangements.
He was clearly your stereotypical, humourless, German. He introduced himself - "Hi, my name is Hans. As you can see, I am German". Short pause, then in a loud stage whisper "Don't mention the war!".
It was SO unexpected to have any humour at all, let alone self-referential Fawlty Towers reference. There was a pause while all the tired people processed what they'd just heard and then absolutely dissolved in laughter.
I live in the UK and this will be taken with the tongue in cheek it was delivered with. Most here in the UK will probably appreciate the humor. Now, how to counter?
Next time a British RC-135 overflies Germany it should change its callsign to Obi Wan Kenobi, or something like that. People from flight tracking forums will take care of the rest.
I have never been to Germany or the UK, so my thoughts are probably uneducated a touch, I really love this response. Instead of somehow becoming offended, find the humor and plan a counter-prank. Make some fun headlines, get a smile out of people reading the news, this is the way.
I recall hearing on the radio about 20 years ago a story (most probably apocryphal) about how the nazis sent a train full of rubbish to Switzerland trying to provoke them and join the war.
But the swiss get rid of the rubbish, cleaned the train, put flowers and food in it and sent it back to Germany with a giant banner saying something along the lines of "Each one gives the best of themselves"
Fawtly Towers reference <3, if anyone wants to know. One of my favourite comedy shows of all time, and ran from 1975 to 1978 or so. 12 episodes total. So, if you have spare time, it's well worth a watch!
FT was a rehash of a 1963 US hotel comedy featuring Jonathan Harris and Don Adams. (which used the lines "Oh, the pain" and "Missed it by that much")
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bill_Dana_Show
Many years ago I met someone that related his travels to Germany. When visiting anything left over from WWII (e.g. old bunkers), or referencing anything that happened back then, they took to mentioning "Smurfs" and "Papa Smurf" to get around angering the locals. This was, of course, after nearly causing an international incident during casual conversation.
Interesting. FWIW, it immediately registered to me (in the US) as inappropriate.
I realized I don't know why they would do that, but regardless of why, my first thought was hotheaded stereotype: how quickly an 'escort' could arrive, of boats/aircraft capable of sinking them.
My second thought was that the escort boats could play Queen's "We Are the Champions" [1] over loudspeakers. If it can be many sailors impromptu singing it, all the better.
Although you could say the same about an "English accent" as well. Which particular part of England do you want this accent to be from? For example, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb63PdPweDc is a fine example of an English accent.
Not just he history between the countries, but the heavy influence of Nazi propaganda films on the appearance of and shot choices around the Empire in Star Wars, and that two of the most-cribbed-from movies for the first film were about the British bombing either Germany directly, or German-controlled Norway, during WWII. It’s not just bad guy music, it’s bad-guys-very-directly-inspired-by-WWII-Germany music.
(But put me on team “it’s funny”—oh no, ze Germans!)
[edit] I just watched the video and it’s even funnier than I thought, because the lines of that vessel call to mind a star destroyer more effectively than most non-battleships do.
That is not what the BBC link says (text copied below. including their weird British spelling of "recognisable"). It's seems much more light hearted and funny than what you are portraying.
> German Navy blasts out Darth Vader theme on Thames
Londoners spotted this ship on the Thames near Tower Bridge, playing the iconic Imperial March theme from the Star Wars trilogies, otherwise recognisable as the Darth Vader music.
But it wasn’t coming from a galaxy far, far away - it was a German Navy ship, in London for training and a supply stop.
A spokesperson from the German Navy told the BBC the music had "no deeper message" and "the commander can choose the music freely".
Someone who has still memories of the bombing will be in their 90s. I don’t want to complete minify that – my late German grandmother had bad memories of the allied bombing her teenage years – but witnesses who lived through WWII are very few still alive. Time flies. The release of Star Wars and the Imperial March (Ep V, 1980) is closer to WWII than to our times.
> Given the history between the two countries, it was perceived as a poor choice
Don't be daft! It was a damn good choice.
Though I for one, won't be happy until we have extracted our revenge; sending a 00 agent undercover to retune the Kraut Kapitans musical cocktail cabinet to play 'God Save the King'.
Why are you complaining on their behalf? The number of elderly who lived through and remember the Blitz is in the hundreds at the most. And most of them recognize that the war was ~80 years ago.
I will maintain that Star Wars was quite possibly the best WWII movie of all time, although purely as an allegorical and referential work. In the timeless tradition of tailoring your story to your audience, the whole film is packed with references and ideas from other WWII movies, people, and events. Although, it also borrows from just about everything else - a true artifact of its era. For the Boomer post-WWII era, I believe drawing from familiar material like this is one of the keys to its success.
After all, a story about "a young hero and laser swords" doesn't hold a candle to "a bunch of underdogs blow up a gigantic space station filled with space Nazis." I don't know about you, but I know which of those I'm going to see 10 times.
> The attack on the Death Star in the climax of the film A New Hope is similar in many respects to the strategy of Operation Chastise from the 1954 British film, The Dam Busters. Rebel pilots have to fly through a trench while evading enemy fire and drop a single special weapon at a precise distance from the target to destroy the entire base with a single explosion; if one run fails another run must be made by a different pilot. Some scenes from the A New Hope climax are similar to those in The Dam Busters and some of the dialogue is nearly identical in the two films. These scenes are also heavily influenced by the action scenes from the fictional wartime film 633 Squadron. That film's finale shows the squadron's planes flying down a deep fjord while being fired at along the way by anti-aircraft guns lining its sides. George Lucas has stated in interviews that this sequence inspired the 'trench run' sequence in Star Wars.
> The stormtroopers from the movies share a name with the Imperial German stormtroopers and the Nazi German Sturmabteilung (lit. Stormtrooper). Imperial officers' uniforms also resemble some historical German Army uniforms and the political and security officers of the Empire resemble the black clad SS down to the imitation silver death's head insignia on their officer's caps (although the uniforms technically had more basis with the German Uhlans within the Prussian Empire[71]). World War II terms were used for names in Star Wars; examples include the planets Kessel (a term that refers to a group of encircled forces) and Hoth (Hermann Hoth was a German general who served on the snow-laden Eastern Front).[61] Lucas himself has drawn parallels between Palpatine and his rise to power to historical dictators such as Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Adolf Hitler, saying the films exist as an examination of how democracies allow themselves to become dictatorships.[72] The space battles in A New Hope were based on filmed World War I and World War II dogfights.[5]
I think a lot of George Lucas' "genius" just comes down to laziness wrapped in 50 years of nostalgia and mystique. The best parts of Star Wars have nothing to do with him, and the worst parts of it have everything to do with him. The trench run in Star Wars wasn't simply "inspired" by Dam Busters, it was practically lifted scene for scene. Most of the action sequences in Star Wars are the same.
Anyone else would be denounced as a hack and a plagiarist but because George Lucas is a master at tweaking people's member-berries he gets away with calling it "homage."
Exactly. It's kind of amazing, actually. Imagine writing music where you lifted riffs from The Beatles, Jimmy Hendrix, and a dozen other famous rock bands, but just changed the key. You'd get sued into oblivion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters_(song)#Lawsuit).
This might also explain why, when more than a generation removed from his target audience, his work started to suffer.
84 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 163 ms ] threadA German Navy spokesperson said the choice of music had "no deeper message." The ship's commander personally chose the music.
Given the history between the two countries, it was perceived as a poor choice.[a]
---
[a] In particular, think of the elderly in the UK who lived through the Nazi bombing raids and their aftermath:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz
that looks pretty dire for civil society to me. i didn't call it totalitarian, but it sure looks like a precursor to it.
Totalitarian is pushing it tho.
There's a great deal of ideologically-driven pushback to her team's work, mostly from people without expertise in the field. But that can be safely ignored due to not being based upon evidence nor reason.
And the Cass Review cites a lot of studies in alignment with the study quality in a minority population -- oh wait, it disregards over 100 studies outright, putting a bar where it can't possibly be met, and then ignored that requirement for the body of studies that agree with her preexisting ideas.
Because it's so easy to defend the Cass review, you used your established HN account and not a sockpu-- wait you didn't.
And Cass totally didn't consult with Patrick Hunter. Almost like she wanted advice on how to replicate the ban in Florida. Not at all.
If you want the cherry on top, before the review, Cass supposedly recommended clinicians read the culture-war work "Irreversible Damage" - a book that compares doctors providing gender affirming care with nazi human experimentation (godwin's law in full force here), completely eliminating the notion that she was a neutral party when the review started.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate you addressing the actual problems with the work instead of a blind reaffirmation that it is scientific and everyone else is paid off by big pharma or something (or what's the implication here?)
So, did you sign up for HN just for this? Do you have a Google Alert for "Cass review"? Can one follow (block) you on X?
not sure how you're concluding totalitarianism is running the show in the UK.
I mean, geeze, just the hate-speech laws that are being used to punish wrong-think. That alone should scare you to the bone.
I was on a theatre tour (as Technical Director), the show had ended, it was late and night and everyone was tired after a long day and packing everything away. The German host gathered us together and stood on a chair to tell us about accommodation arrangements.
He was clearly your stereotypical, humourless, German. He introduced himself - "Hi, my name is Hans. As you can see, I am German". Short pause, then in a loud stage whisper "Don't mention the war!".
It was SO unexpected to have any humour at all, let alone self-referential Fawlty Towers reference. There was a pause while all the tired people processed what they'd just heard and then absolutely dissolved in laughter.
Though it is not quite flashy enough, hmmm...
>Speedbird 206: Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of active runway.
>ATC: Speedbird 206. Taxi to gate Alpha One-Seven.
>BA 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop.
>ATC: Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?
>Speedbird 206: Stand by, Ground, I’m looking up our gate location now.
>ATC (annoyed): Speedbird 206, have you not been to Frankfurt before?
>Speedbird 206 (nonchalantly): “Yes, twice in 1944, but it was dark ... and I didn't land.”.
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=391043
Or perhaps this is more apt:
>Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"
>Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak in English."
>Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany. Why must I speak English?"
>Unknown voice from another plane (in a beautiful British accent): "Because you lost the bloody war."
He joked over the radio, "the last time the Germans shot at me it was during the war".
The reply came back "And zis time I vill not miss".
I have never been to Germany or the UK, so my thoughts are probably uneducated a touch, I really love this response. Instead of somehow becoming offended, find the humor and plan a counter-prank. Make some fun headlines, get a smile out of people reading the news, this is the way.
But the swiss get rid of the rubbish, cleaned the train, put flowers and food in it and sent it back to Germany with a giant banner saying something along the lines of "Each one gives the best of themselves"
I, sadly, did not partake in either option. I shall return.
[1]: https://fawltytowerswestend.com/
[2]: https://www.westendtheatre.com/56131/shows/faulty-towers-the...
I read John Cleese’s autobiography long ago and he mentioned the very different economics of TV in the UK vs the US.
I think it was either the lack of money going into UK TV shows or the lack of a profit motive that led to ridiculously short runs like that.
Fawlty Towers and Yes Minister are top quality shows that should’ve run for 10 seasons.
Luckily their system did better with this when Jeremy Clarkson’s Top Gear came around and we got a lot of that.
Many years ago I met someone that related his travels to Germany. When visiting anything left over from WWII (e.g. old bunkers), or referencing anything that happened back then, they took to mentioning "Smurfs" and "Papa Smurf" to get around angering the locals. This was, of course, after nearly causing an international incident during casual conversation.
I realized I don't know why they would do that, but regardless of why, my first thought was hotheaded stereotype: how quickly an 'escort' could arrive, of boats/aircraft capable of sinking them.
My second thought was that the escort boats could play Queen's "We Are the Champions" [1] over loudspeakers. If it can be many sailors impromptu singing it, all the better.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY&t=33s
I don't recall any of them sounding Welsh or Scottish! A "British accent" is something I've yet to hear anywhere in Blighty.
(But put me on team “it’s funny”—oh no, ze Germans!)
[edit] I just watched the video and it’s even funnier than I thought, because the lines of that vessel call to mind a star destroyer more effectively than most non-battleships do.
> German Navy blasts out Darth Vader theme on Thames Londoners spotted this ship on the Thames near Tower Bridge, playing the iconic Imperial March theme from the Star Wars trilogies, otherwise recognisable as the Darth Vader music. But it wasn’t coming from a galaxy far, far away - it was a German Navy ship, in London for training and a supply stop. A spokesperson from the German Navy told the BBC the music had "no deeper message" and "the commander can choose the music freely".
Someone who has still memories of the bombing will be in their 90s. I don’t want to complete minify that – my late German grandmother had bad memories of the allied bombing her teenage years – but witnesses who lived through WWII are very few still alive. Time flies. The release of Star Wars and the Imperial March (Ep V, 1980) is closer to WWII than to our times.
Don't be daft! It was a damn good choice.
Though I for one, won't be happy until we have extracted our revenge; sending a 00 agent undercover to retune the Kraut Kapitans musical cocktail cabinet to play 'God Save the King'.
(Husband home early) What are you doing here? — I live here. — But not now, at this time of day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzsxN4HNrNw
(... and yes, they ACTUALLY do have a "Weltraumkommando"!)
I find it kinda funny that they apparently consider themselves part of the Empire. But it seems accurate, too >:-)
You should check the headlines in major German newspapers. /s
I would see that as some self-deprecating german spaß
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=laDBqnU5yH0
Especially because, you know, filmmaking credit where credit is due. (Not that Lucas isn't talented, but Kurosawa should never not be mentioned)
I will maintain that Star Wars was quite possibly the best WWII movie of all time, although purely as an allegorical and referential work. In the timeless tradition of tailoring your story to your audience, the whole film is packed with references and ideas from other WWII movies, people, and events. Although, it also borrows from just about everything else - a true artifact of its era. For the Boomer post-WWII era, I believe drawing from familiar material like this is one of the keys to its success.
After all, a story about "a young hero and laser swords" doesn't hold a candle to "a bunch of underdogs blow up a gigantic space station filled with space Nazis." I don't know about you, but I know which of those I'm going to see 10 times.
> The attack on the Death Star in the climax of the film A New Hope is similar in many respects to the strategy of Operation Chastise from the 1954 British film, The Dam Busters. Rebel pilots have to fly through a trench while evading enemy fire and drop a single special weapon at a precise distance from the target to destroy the entire base with a single explosion; if one run fails another run must be made by a different pilot. Some scenes from the A New Hope climax are similar to those in The Dam Busters and some of the dialogue is nearly identical in the two films. These scenes are also heavily influenced by the action scenes from the fictional wartime film 633 Squadron. That film's finale shows the squadron's planes flying down a deep fjord while being fired at along the way by anti-aircraft guns lining its sides. George Lucas has stated in interviews that this sequence inspired the 'trench run' sequence in Star Wars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogue...
> The stormtroopers from the movies share a name with the Imperial German stormtroopers and the Nazi German Sturmabteilung (lit. Stormtrooper). Imperial officers' uniforms also resemble some historical German Army uniforms and the political and security officers of the Empire resemble the black clad SS down to the imitation silver death's head insignia on their officer's caps (although the uniforms technically had more basis with the German Uhlans within the Prussian Empire[71]). World War II terms were used for names in Star Wars; examples include the planets Kessel (a term that refers to a group of encircled forces) and Hoth (Hermann Hoth was a German general who served on the snow-laden Eastern Front).[61] Lucas himself has drawn parallels between Palpatine and his rise to power to historical dictators such as Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Adolf Hitler, saying the films exist as an examination of how democracies allow themselves to become dictatorships.[72] The space battles in A New Hope were based on filmed World War I and World War II dogfights.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogue...
Anyone else would be denounced as a hack and a plagiarist but because George Lucas is a master at tweaking people's member-berries he gets away with calling it "homage."
This might also explain why, when more than a generation removed from his target audience, his work started to suffer.