> While the Control Panel still exists for compatibility reasons and to provide access to some settings that have not yet migrated, you're encouraged to use the Settings app, whenever possible."
Yeah, right, some. Though Control Panel is not a shining example of structured layout of available options, at least they're there.
Yeah, there are still so many features missing, and worse there is no documentation for the migrated features, other than searching the Web to find out where similar capabilities might be available now.
As if. They are simply going to replace the references to control panel in the docs with arcane PowerShell snippets, because you’re not expected to customize anything anyway
One of the best tools to set a Windows/Reactos computer among MMC.exe, and now their are ditching it because of braindead mobile users with no clues to solve anything.
I couldn't make sense of it either. The top level comment doesn't make sense as written.
>One of the best tools to set a Windows/Reactos computer among MMC.exe, and now their are ditching it because of braindead mobile users with no clues to solve anything.
I was just skipping the comment because it was made no sense and seems to be trying to be hostile.
Skipping it is arguably more toxic than asking politely to rephrase it. Skipping it assumes the meaning behind the comment isn't worth trying to decipher.
I default to, "If they can't be bothered to write it properly then it's probably not worth reading". But that's not always fair to EFL people or NT people.
What do you feel the correct course of action is?
---
Edit:
Based on the comment and what pcdoodle has said, is this a fair representation of how you interpret the comment?
>Control Panel is one of the best tools to configure a Windows/ReactOS computer. (Another such tool is "MMC.exe".)
>Braindead and clueless mobile users can't figure out how to use Control Panel. That's why Microsoft are ditching Control Panel in favour of the more iOS/Android-style Settings.
>This is frustrating to me as a Windows power user.
> Control Panel is one of the best tools to configure a Windows/ReactOS computer. (Another such tool is "MMC.exe".)
> Braindead and clueless mobile users can't figure out how to use Control Panel. That's why Microsoft are ditching Control Panel in favour of the more iOS/Android-style Settings.
> This is frustrating to me as a Windows power user.
I think the question is who are MS making windows for, and possibly where they're getting rewarded for spending their efforts (who gives them money for windows).
The challenge as I see it is 'GUI windows' must serve a very wide spectrum of users from those that just want to use it as an appliance to just launch an application, through various definitions of power user up to workstations for full certified professionals, and I think it's the middle of the pack that really lean on control panel/settings. Appliance users probably never or extremely rarely touch settings, and professionals can take to it like ducks to water if they're using it at all compared to another interface. While I can appreciate some motivations behind what MS do with windows such as security, things like this seem like they're pushing the emphasis more towards appliance and cutting away the 'personal computer' which (without any more research than a wet finger in the air) I think would account for that 'middle of the pack'.
What really bothers me is if it's taken them 12 years since win8 started their movement in this direction to get to the current state, how long will it take them to complete the change, let alone come up with something clearly better where no one would want to use the classic control panel. MS don't give the impression they have the capability or drive to execute that promptly. It seems more likely they'll just remove any mention of control panel from the UI/explorer, but leave the .cpls available unless they cause issues.
MMC was a hidden star of Windows. You could write your own extensions for your application that it would host for you, and you'd get a standard look + feel that sysadmins would feel right at home with.
I have given up a couple of times on writing a Powershell extension. My searches return all sorts of hits on how to use it, but none on how to add objects to it so that modern sysadmins can administer my application. Links to official docs and authoritative blogs welcome.
Yay, change for change's sake, removing something which works because it looks scary.
Seriously.... remove the shortcut if you think it confuses end users, but leave the the ability to do e.g. Win-R + appwiz.cpl and everyone would be happy with the way forward.
I'm sure the reason, below all the superficial excuses, boils down to "Because Apple does it". Sigh.
It’s not change for change sake. I’ve read it was notoriously difficult for Microsoft to change things in there and generally do development work on it, which is why it’s stuck around so long.
can someone explain to me why Microsoft is so incredibly slow in implementing what i see as relatively simple changes? it reminds me of everyone begging microsoft for tabs in file explorer and they finally did it... after close to 15 years!
they have said they are going to depreciate the control panel for at least 7 years and it still isnt done. I dont understand how a company this size moves to slow in implementing what seems to be fairly straight forward things
I hope to know that too. And what about enhancing the UI a little bit. What about the windows that show up in light mode while dark mode is on. What about making Explorer a little bit faster.
The Windows ecosystem is at its core about backward compatibility and minimizing training costs (path dependence). There are billions of employees who have to be trained button click by button click. Even their IT support is often trained on Windows only.
And yet Microsoft pushes through all sorts of arbitrary changes that only benefit Microsoft like Candy Crush, Cortana, Copilot surveillance, can't be uninstalled OneDrive, mandatory TPM, and a search that depends on Internet connectivity.
> The Windows ecosystem is at its core about backward compatibility and minimizing training costs (path dependence). There are billions of employees who have to be trained button click by button click.
If this was their core they must've butchered it by releasing Windows 8, Windows 10 and most recently , Windows 11. And I'm not even counting thousands of minute stuff they've changed versions before these.
If the CompuGlobalHyperMegaNet corporation I work at is anything like Microsoft, employees are given too much different work that causes needless mental context switching while you go off and do something else while waiting for PRs to be reviewed over weeks because the reviewers are also doing too much different things.
Or maybe that’s just the way it works for the massive tech company I work at, but I see things taking a long time to get done for, presumably, the above reason, among many other process and people related reasons. I see lots of fluff around me, not that I claim to be a bastion of sanity in any sense.
Because drivers and other hardware related software have the ability to add things like tab pages to the Control Panel dialogs. All of those would need to be rewritten to work with the new Settings interface, and with over 30 years of drivers, that’s just not going to happen.
Wow, that's... Terrible.
Sure, they started killing it after Windows XP, but it's kinda still the only place where you can actually access all the settings, and all that weird stuff on top they added in 7 and 10 just makes it impossible to guess what in the world is actually going on..
It’s like modern cars with plastic covers on the engine bay to make it look like a “Modern engine” and underneath all it’s the same one designed in japan in the 80s.
Well that sucks, you can't access the settings app unless explorer is running at the shell, since I use an alternative shell; I'm outta luck. I have to kill my shell and let the start menu load up.
One thing I greatly dislike about the settings app is the fact we can only have one section opened at once. If you are debugging, say Bluetooth and sound issues, the setting app can only exclusively show either Bluetooth or Sound, not both, (AFAIK) you can't open a second instance of the app.
I was complaining about the same thing yesterday (to nobody) about the macOS System Preferences - it is irritating that when you are working on the Network Panel and want to fiddle with some other system option, you can't open two different panels in System Preferences at the same time. Isn't it the same with Linux distros too now a days who are imitating Windows and macOS UI?
You’re inviting a billion replies about how on Linux you have the absolute freedom to install any of a number of inscrutably hard to use, abandoned, system configuration utilities, or edit some equally inscrutable file written in one greybeard’s esoteric pet project configuration DSL.
Thanks for the tip ( open -a 'system preferences' -n worked for me ). Though, it's still irritating when you have to switch to command line to do so ...
One at a time, low text density, advanced settings obfuscated at best and removed at worst, quick shortcuts (cpl and such) won't exist anymore. The settings are a fantastic way to solve absolutely nothing by clicking on very large buttons.
Agreed, and more generally, MSFT removing these 'classic' control panels is a significant issue because the new replacements often don't replace the full functionality of the originals.
This isn't simply that he new replacement isn't "finished" yet (which was sometimes claimed in the past when power users complained). In recent years, the reason seems to be the old canard "not enough users use (capability) often enough." However, in the case of Windows control panels, this is reasoning can be invalid because control panels were many times explicitly for advanced users to adjust advanced OS behaviors.
This would be okay if MSFT was creating the new "Settings" paradigm to be an additional kind of basic adjustments-only UI for entry-level users. However, what's actually happening is they're completely removing the old control panel while simultaneously nerfing the Settings replacement, leaving more advanced users hunting through the registry to find a way to control behaviors they've been able to control via interface in Windows for decades.
For ages now Microsoft has been hiding and over-complicating config management on their OS'es. It should be an issue cited by legal authorities. Task manager for example could clearly highlight processes that are part of the original OS, just to distinguish them from 3rd party apps as an easy indicator of system security. The explorer functionality & file display changes with each folder you open, there is no clear path to system TMP files to clear them, and even in many of their apps, you need to learn an entirely different set of hotkeys just to have an efficient workflow.
I don't know why the company obfuscates and complicates operation of it's OS, but so many others including Android & IoS create ridiculously tiered configuration menus to the point where users get so frustrated with every update that I'm sure most just leave default (nefarious) settings as is.
Part of me thinks config complexity will be baked in to keep certification course money rolling in for the company, but with each mandatory "security" update, we're still getting hacked, because configuring our settings now is just too damn tedious.
Microsoft really hinders other innovation on top of not really innovating itself (as a company) by overcomplicating settings and by adding bloatware & monitorware to it's OS... This is also why there's a desperate fight to cling to older OS versions with every new release. The imposed update learning curve is counter-productive, it doesn't make anything better, and it's mostly the end result of us tolerating monopoly behaviors of the company for ages now.
There should be regulation against forcing updates on us, there should also be regulation against arbitrarily removing features post-release in software that we purchased... As we move further and further away from hardware tools, this practice of tiered control and arbitrary feature removal will become a nightmare of predatory corporate greed upon all of us. Imagine buying a lawn mower, and then 2 years later, you find you need to watch ads on it before you can start it, or that you'll have to pay a monthly fee to cut your grass shorter than usual? Pure Hell.
Soooooooo are they finally going to add all the missing configurations in the settings app? Because there's still *a lot* you can only configure from control panel.
If you’re against this change I think you should evaluate whether it’s nostalgia or resistance to change talking rather than an honest evaluation.
It’s quite clear to me that the control panel desperately needs to go.
And if you don’t like the Settings app now, realize that it can, has, and will change at a more rapid pace than control panel because Microsoft can actually work on it at a reasonable velocity rather than being stuck with the legacy technology that’s difficult for them to work with internally.
Windows 10 and it's Settings app were released in 2014. It's been 10 years, and it's still a fancy front-end with no substance, a tiny fraction of the options available in the real Control Panel.
Where is this supposed "velocity" your speak of, and what has Microsoft been doing with it?
Windows 10 is end of life in one year. It only receives security updates. It hasn’t been receiving feature updates since Windows 11 came out, which was 3 years ago.
The velocity is in Windows 11, where control panel is being discontinued.
And on top of that, this idea that the settings app doesn’t contain all the same options is kind of ridiculous to me. Maybe it doesn’t if you’re still using Windows 10, the discontinued operating system. Maybe the settings app sucks if you’ve been too stubborn to keep your windows up to date with the latest releases.
As you have likely noticed, Control Panel is mostly a collection of links to other utilities that open as completely separate windows. Some of them even open the Settings app itself (such as "View Devices and Printers).
I see that in the Settings app there is a section System > Storage > Disks and Volumes. You can get to it directly by searching "Manage Disks and Volumes" (or just "Disks"). It doesn’t yet have all the functionality that disk management has.
I assume that functionality in Disk Management is going to eventually going to move there.
But even if it doesn't, the current Control Panel isn't actually needed to get there. Microsoft will probably just move the link to the Settings app. You can already get to Disk Management without even touching Control Panel (just go to your start menu and search for Disk Management).
The Control Panel doesn't even have many items left, I don't know why it's so hard to imagine it going away.
> And on top of that, this idea that the settings app doesn’t contain all the same options is kind of ridiculous to me.
So I just chose a random example, because I found this statement to be, in your words, kind of ridiculous.
> The Control Panel doesn't even have many items left, I don't know why it's so hard to imagine it going away.
I can't speak for others, only myself. My problem is not so much that MS wants to move things to the new settings app. It's how they are going about it, which is reflective of a lot of their products these days. I actually like some of the features in Windows 11 and think overall, it has improved on 10. However, I also feel like a beta user, and sometimes things just change for no apparent reason, or in a user-hostile way.
As you stated, the disk partition application is separate and control panel is largely a collection of links. Why then, did MS release the new settings app without bothering to simply add a link to the disk partition application? This would not require some large build out of features. And here we are, years later, without a simple link.
I know that I can type "disk partition" into the start menu and it will probably (though not always) bring up the program I want to use. When I type that in today, it reveals "Create and format hard disk partitions (Control panel)". Is this the experience MS is trying to offer for Windows 11? As you noted, Windows 10 is nearing end of life. Why does it still feel like Windows 11 is a release candidate?
Why is it quite clear to you? You can't just refute people's valid concerns over loss of functionality and deprecating something while advocating a replacement without feature parity by saying 'it's quite clear to me' - you sound ridiculous.
To your last point about how it will change at a rapid pace, when has MS done this for something for advanced users? I don't believe rapid development of Settings is going to kick into gear because of this because that seems not at all like the Microsoft we deal with today, they move very slow on power user features while going full speed on integrating "AI" and various junk in my menu bar - why would you believe Settings will be a priority?
58 comments
[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 125 ms ] threadYeah, right, some. Though Control Panel is not a shining example of structured layout of available options, at least they're there.
The settings app has a search that takes you directly to specific settings, you know.
Can you try to simplify this, split it into 2-3 sentences, and so clarify what you wanted to say?
2. I tried to word it politely, in fact.
If you understood it then what do you think it meant?
>One of the best tools to set a Windows/Reactos computer among MMC.exe, and now their are ditching it because of braindead mobile users with no clues to solve anything.
I was just skipping the comment because it was made no sense and seems to be trying to be hostile.
Skipping it is arguably more toxic than asking politely to rephrase it. Skipping it assumes the meaning behind the comment isn't worth trying to decipher.
I default to, "If they can't be bothered to write it properly then it's probably not worth reading". But that's not always fair to EFL people or NT people.
What do you feel the correct course of action is?
--- Edit: Based on the comment and what pcdoodle has said, is this a fair representation of how you interpret the comment?
>Control Panel is one of the best tools to configure a Windows/ReactOS computer. (Another such tool is "MMC.exe".)
>Braindead and clueless mobile users can't figure out how to use Control Panel. That's why Microsoft are ditching Control Panel in favour of the more iOS/Android-style Settings.
>This is frustrating to me as a Windows power user.
> Braindead and clueless mobile users can't figure out how to use Control Panel. That's why Microsoft are ditching Control Panel in favour of the more iOS/Android-style Settings.
> This is frustrating to me as a Windows power user.
Aha! Now I get it! Thank you.
The challenge as I see it is 'GUI windows' must serve a very wide spectrum of users from those that just want to use it as an appliance to just launch an application, through various definitions of power user up to workstations for full certified professionals, and I think it's the middle of the pack that really lean on control panel/settings. Appliance users probably never or extremely rarely touch settings, and professionals can take to it like ducks to water if they're using it at all compared to another interface. While I can appreciate some motivations behind what MS do with windows such as security, things like this seem like they're pushing the emphasis more towards appliance and cutting away the 'personal computer' which (without any more research than a wet finger in the air) I think would account for that 'middle of the pack'.
What really bothers me is if it's taken them 12 years since win8 started their movement in this direction to get to the current state, how long will it take them to complete the change, let alone come up with something clearly better where no one would want to use the classic control panel. MS don't give the impression they have the capability or drive to execute that promptly. It seems more likely they'll just remove any mention of control panel from the UI/explorer, but leave the .cpls available unless they cause issues.
I have given up a couple of times on writing a Powershell extension. My searches return all sorts of hits on how to use it, but none on how to add objects to it so that modern sysadmins can administer my application. Links to official docs and authoritative blogs welcome.
Seriously.... remove the shortcut if you think it confuses end users, but leave the the ability to do e.g. Win-R + appwiz.cpl and everyone would be happy with the way forward.
I'm sure the reason, below all the superficial excuses, boils down to "Because Apple does it". Sigh.
they have said they are going to depreciate the control panel for at least 7 years and it still isnt done. I dont understand how a company this size moves to slow in implementing what seems to be fairly straight forward things
And yet Microsoft pushes through all sorts of arbitrary changes that only benefit Microsoft like Candy Crush, Cortana, Copilot surveillance, can't be uninstalled OneDrive, mandatory TPM, and a search that depends on Internet connectivity.
It was. A long time ago.
If this was their core they must've butchered it by releasing Windows 8, Windows 10 and most recently , Windows 11. And I'm not even counting thousands of minute stuff they've changed versions before these.
You'll be missed Panel.
This isn't simply that he new replacement isn't "finished" yet (which was sometimes claimed in the past when power users complained). In recent years, the reason seems to be the old canard "not enough users use (capability) often enough." However, in the case of Windows control panels, this is reasoning can be invalid because control panels were many times explicitly for advanced users to adjust advanced OS behaviors.
This would be okay if MSFT was creating the new "Settings" paradigm to be an additional kind of basic adjustments-only UI for entry-level users. However, what's actually happening is they're completely removing the old control panel while simultaneously nerfing the Settings replacement, leaving more advanced users hunting through the registry to find a way to control behaviors they've been able to control via interface in Windows for decades.
I don't know why the company obfuscates and complicates operation of it's OS, but so many others including Android & IoS create ridiculously tiered configuration menus to the point where users get so frustrated with every update that I'm sure most just leave default (nefarious) settings as is.
Part of me thinks config complexity will be baked in to keep certification course money rolling in for the company, but with each mandatory "security" update, we're still getting hacked, because configuring our settings now is just too damn tedious.
Microsoft really hinders other innovation on top of not really innovating itself (as a company) by overcomplicating settings and by adding bloatware & monitorware to it's OS... This is also why there's a desperate fight to cling to older OS versions with every new release. The imposed update learning curve is counter-productive, it doesn't make anything better, and it's mostly the end result of us tolerating monopoly behaviors of the company for ages now.
There should be regulation against forcing updates on us, there should also be regulation against arbitrarily removing features post-release in software that we purchased... As we move further and further away from hardware tools, this practice of tiered control and arbitrary feature removal will become a nightmare of predatory corporate greed upon all of us. Imagine buying a lawn mower, and then 2 years later, you find you need to watch ads on it before you can start it, or that you'll have to pay a monthly fee to cut your grass shorter than usual? Pure Hell.
It’s quite clear to me that the control panel desperately needs to go.
And if you don’t like the Settings app now, realize that it can, has, and will change at a more rapid pace than control panel because Microsoft can actually work on it at a reasonable velocity rather than being stuck with the legacy technology that’s difficult for them to work with internally.
Where is this supposed "velocity" your speak of, and what has Microsoft been doing with it?
The velocity is in Windows 11, where control panel is being discontinued.
And on top of that, this idea that the settings app doesn’t contain all the same options is kind of ridiculous to me. Maybe it doesn’t if you’re still using Windows 10, the discontinued operating system. Maybe the settings app sucks if you’ve been too stubborn to keep your windows up to date with the latest releases.
I see that in the Settings app there is a section System > Storage > Disks and Volumes. You can get to it directly by searching "Manage Disks and Volumes" (or just "Disks"). It doesn’t yet have all the functionality that disk management has.
I assume that functionality in Disk Management is going to eventually going to move there.
But even if it doesn't, the current Control Panel isn't actually needed to get there. Microsoft will probably just move the link to the Settings app. You can already get to Disk Management without even touching Control Panel (just go to your start menu and search for Disk Management).
The Control Panel doesn't even have many items left, I don't know why it's so hard to imagine it going away.
So I just chose a random example, because I found this statement to be, in your words, kind of ridiculous.
> The Control Panel doesn't even have many items left, I don't know why it's so hard to imagine it going away.
I can't speak for others, only myself. My problem is not so much that MS wants to move things to the new settings app. It's how they are going about it, which is reflective of a lot of their products these days. I actually like some of the features in Windows 11 and think overall, it has improved on 10. However, I also feel like a beta user, and sometimes things just change for no apparent reason, or in a user-hostile way.
As you stated, the disk partition application is separate and control panel is largely a collection of links. Why then, did MS release the new settings app without bothering to simply add a link to the disk partition application? This would not require some large build out of features. And here we are, years later, without a simple link.
I know that I can type "disk partition" into the start menu and it will probably (though not always) bring up the program I want to use. When I type that in today, it reveals "Create and format hard disk partitions (Control panel)". Is this the experience MS is trying to offer for Windows 11? As you noted, Windows 10 is nearing end of life. Why does it still feel like Windows 11 is a release candidate?
To your last point about how it will change at a rapid pace, when has MS done this for something for advanced users? I don't believe rapid development of Settings is going to kick into gear because of this because that seems not at all like the Microsoft we deal with today, they move very slow on power user features while going full speed on integrating "AI" and various junk in my menu bar - why would you believe Settings will be a priority?