HN Explorer

115 comments

[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 196 ms ] thread
devit
I wonder what's the complexity class of the problem of deciding if it is solvable in a given number of moves?
pkstn
What should i do here?
v_b
The goal is to have as less gaps between the blocks as possible.

The High score is calculated with the following formula: (elapsed seconds / 4) + operations + fragmentation

operation: each movement = 1 fragmentation: each gap between two elements = 1

inverted score system (less is better)

pkstn
would be maybe good idea to add instructions :D
v_b
May I ask how old you are? Probably not from the Windows XP era, huh? We "old folks" know exactly what to do when it comes to defragging a drive.

Seriously though, thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely add a small link with game rules to help everyone out.

iamtedd
Ok, but I had no idea I was already choosing a position to write the first file. I was pulling to refresh constantly on Firefox mobile until I finally figured it out. Which is a big difference to all the other moves - choosing a file to move first, before choosing a position to write it to.

Nifty game, but I almost gave up on it when I couldn't figure out what the hell I was supposed to do as the first move.

rbonvall
If I was you I wouldn't bother. The cool thing is not the game itself, it's the fact that we "old folks" just know what to do right away :) If you need to read instructions, probably you'll find the game dull anyway.
v_b
Exactly this was my intetion :)

Thank you

user_7832
Counterpoint, I'd love to have this info. I grew up long enough ago to know (and do) disk defrags and the game is very similar to tetris in how it is fun and relatively easy. But iirc defrags made multiple passes, and it is not very clear whether the blocks in game correspond to pieces of the same file (where line 1 & 2 should be together) or of different files (where it does not matter). It's a nice game nonetheless!
v_b
@user_7832 Thank you so much for your feedback! I made this just for fun in my spare time, and feedback like yours is incredibly valuable and, more importantly, motivating.

It shows that there are people who take the time to provide thoughtful feedback in return for my invested time, which goes beyond simple comments like "this is stupid because I don't understand it."

Thank you!

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
moring
I remember defragmentation from ca. Windows 95 times, and it was totally different from this game. None of the files shown here is actually fragmented, only the used space is, and for some reason you can't place a two-block file across a "line break".

edit: I realized that the "lines" might be meant to represent disk cylinders in the pre-LBA era, but even then, a line should "wrap around" to itself instead of the next line.

em-bee
for the next level each file could have a different color. then multiple blocks of the same color would be one fragmented file. in easy mode the order of the blocks would not matter as long as all of one color follow each other, in hard mode the blocks would have to be in a specific order.

i would also allow blocks be moved freely with the goal to move as little data as possible.

dfox
The idea behind defragmentation is to make the files themselves consecutive, which is not done in any way in this game, which makes it somehow confusing. The fact that DOS/Windows defrag also moves the used space to the beginning of the block device is mostly an implementation detail (and the experience with unix filesystems seems to indicate that it is actually better strategy to intentionally fragment the files by allocating the space almost randomly as long as the fragments are "large").
mrgoldenbrown
As an old folk who watched a lot of DOS and win 3.1 defrag I could not figure out how to play. This game has many confusing differences from actual defragging: blocks can't seem to move over each other for example. And I think each block can move only once? It's a neat concept for a game but don't blame our confusion with the UX on lack of familiarity with the real defrag process.
krisoft
> We "old folks" know exactly what to do when it comes to defragging a drive.

Has nothing to do with age. Clearly the game has a host of limitations which has nothing to do with actual disk defragging. (Can only process the blocks one at a time in a specified but unknown to the user order. Blocks move one cell at a time and can't jump over other blocks.) And doesn't have others which are core to disk defragmentation. (Sectors, and files for example.)

RA2lover
note gaps between the first block and first file are counted, and gaps longer than 4 blocks are treated as 4-block gaps, but only for the fragmentation display rather than actual scoring.
v_b
I didn't mention that above, but you are correct. Kudos to your reverse engineering skills!
weego
It's a fun game, my only complaint is a UX / expectation issue: when I've placed a block, my natural reaction is to press space again to "enable" the next block for moving but, as it's enable by default, it locks it. I've had to restart a lot because of that.
apopapo
I get terrible performance in "hard" mode (seems to be due to animations?)

Nice educational game!

v_b
Haha, I never played in "hard" mode because it was too challenging for me. That's probably why I didn't optimize the performance as much in that mode. Thanks for the feedback!
eknkc
Is this completely in React? Just curious as this should be pretty easy to render.
v_b
It is. To be hones I played it now in "hard" and the peformance was absolutley fine.

I know that some browsers has still issues when it comes to pure CSS animations as they are running on the GPU and when the Hardware acceleration is disabled the CPU goes sometimes crazy.

I had the same on an animation GitHub a while ago used on their landing page.

withinboredom
Issues seem to be random, it is like the board shifts back and forth to the right/left until it settles, causing performance to tank until it settles.
ALittleLight
Performance seems to get worse about midway through. I assumed it was an intentional difficulty increase though.
hellohello2
Lags for me as well on a recent Macbook pro. (Nice game though)
r1chardnl
Just a matter of time before Chrome pushes another JS API like File System API and you can actually defrag your drive from the browser.
v_b
Should already work today with your cloud storage I think
ossobuco
It's already there: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/File_System...
HeatrayEnjoyer
Why do APIs like this even exist? There's no legitimate reason for an HTML webpage to need this, it's just creating more attack surface for bad actors.
zamadatix
The File System API is a JavaScript API, not an HTML one, so it helps to think about it from that light (programs, not documents). The API allows tools such as photo editors, file converters, code editors, and the like to be given access to a set of files they can work on directly rather than needing to import and export from the browser on every change. If the attack surface is too much for a use case it can be globally denied by default in every major browser so you won't even get prompted.
HeatrayEnjoyer
JavaScript is just a feature accessory for HTML. There's no meaningful difference.
zamadatix
For whatever your preference in slicing that up is you can carry the "programs, not documents" reasons along.
HeatrayEnjoyer
Right, but programs are programs. Browsers are for webpages. If we want a program we run an .exe
nox101
The page needs permission. That permission step is similar to the act of downloading a native app. Except for the fact that the broswer gives even less access to your system than a native app so it's safer than a native app. (at least on desktop) That file system API is super useful for cloud based IDEs as just one example
miquong
Microsoft has an elaborate VS Code demo app that uses this API. Click "Open Folder" to see the API in action): https://vscode.dev
zamadatix
They say "like" this one because it only provides file level interaction, not disk level interaction.
jeroenhd
If you know the right identifiers, you should be able to use WebUSB to access a flash drive/external hard drive. Combined with C-to-WASM compilers and Linux driver code, I'm sure you can defragment from the browser alone.

Or you can hook this mechanism into one of the WASM x64 emulators and attach the drive directly to a copy of MS-DOS or Windows 98 running in the browser.

marvinborner
I wonder what the optimal strategy is, optimize for speed with more fragmentation and fewer operations or for less fragmentation but more operations and time. For 1kb, optimizing for no fragmentation I can't seem to get below ~80.
v_b
That's the formular I am using to calculate the score: (elapsed seconds / 4) + operations + fragmentation
r1chardnl
From the title at first I thought this was a Quake browser port [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeFRaG

pureheartlover
I love watching defrag vids on youtube. There's still a strong but small community pumping out world records.

A classic from about a decade ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUCtMIjL-Z4

stavros
I spent two seconds trying to figure out how someone would even do competitive defragmentation, let alone why there are multiple people doing it.
0x008
And the supposedly 24/7 defrag twitch stream
holistio
Fun game, but scoring seems to be a bit off. If I just smash space I get a score higher than when I actually solve the puzzle.
mapimopi
Your goal is to score lower
holistio
That makes total sense. I guess "best score" would be a better wording in that case.
v_b
Thanks, I have adjusted it to:

Best Score: XXX

(Aim for a lower score)

Just refresh the page

nox101
"lowest score" would be self explanatory. "Best score" still made me think I was doing better with a higher score

on the other hand, it might be better to change the scoring system. Calculate the worst score using the current system. Then reverse so the score goes up as in displayScore = worstScore - oldWayOfCalculatingScore

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
shawabawa3
if i just smash space i get a lower score than when i try playing

edit: managed to get a score of 131 for getting to 0 fragmentation in 30 seconds, i had 139 from just spamming space

recursive
It's possible to do a lot better with strategy.
MattGaiser
Playing a few rounds, it shows your “high score” as the lowest number you earned. So it seems to be more that the score is inverted.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
Sarkie
Hit the spacebar = 155 points. Solve the game = 111 points.

Fun idea but not great point strategy.

Thanks

v_b
It has an inverted score system, which means less is better :-)
iamtedd
Where is that explained?
v_b
I just updated it, it shows now:

Best Score: XXX

(Aim for a lower score)

At the end of a round. Probably not perfect but I hope OK for now.

iamtedd
So I have to blindly play a round until I finally get the goal explained?
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
dncornholio
The puzzle stops after you solved the first line. You won't become stuck after this. Would be nice if it had reproducable levels because I feel like this is a product of the level generation. It's not providing enough problems IMO.
liamwire
Beautiful game that’s very quick to pick up, well done.
v_b
That's exactly what a software developer hopes for: users enjoying their software.

Thank you ! :)

abcd_f
On iPhone drag-n-drop doesn't work. Long tap basically selects part of the gaming field and this selection is not draggable. Once tap is released it shows the Copy/... menu.
mastermedo
You need to swipe. Works on iphone 13 + chrome.
hinkley
I tried swiping, got nothing.

I’m not sure what else someone would interpret as drag and drop on a touch screen. That’s gonna be swiping.

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
hinkley
It’s because the game ergonomics are questionable. You can only slide files sideways, not past other files. Your phone isn’t broken, not is the game engine. The game rules are.

I got other things I’m supposed to be doing right now so I’m gonna go do those.

insane_dreamer
it's more just dragging than drag-and-drop; slide finger to move the blinking in one direction; no tapping

works for me with iPhone13 + Safari

Aeolun
It sort of works for me, but it feels far from pleasant/responsive. Feels like it only ever goes in one direction at a time. Dragging diagonally has your file stuck.
KTibow
For other mobile users:

The black boxes are data; they are automatically picked up. You're swiping to move the cursor that places the data. The "write file" button writes the data.

chiph
Looks like the video is no longer available.

I used to love watching the defragger back in the Windows 95 days, and later I bought copies of PerfectDisk for both home & work. Unfortunately Raxco closed up shop earlier this year, and their license server is offline[0]. So I can't run it other than in trial mode. And that's a shame, as it was the only product that could fix the fragmentation problem we had with over fifty thousand files in a directory tree[1].

I don't know if NTFS has a version ID or if PerfectDisk will respect an ID higher than it was written for, but I'm nervous that the now-unsupported defragger might trash the internals of my filesystem. :(

[0] 1990's style software licensing - super annoying.

[1] Startup. No time to rearchitect it correctly. Usual story.

sarcan
really funny, I also think scoring should be inverted and should be more clear
danbruc
This is not like defragmenting a disk at all. There are no sectors or clusters, I can and have to move entire files at once. I have to move them in some fixed order and I can only move each once. Files can bump into each other?!? This is extremely confusing if you think the game is about what the names says.
stavros
Yeah, this needs an explanation, I went into it thinking it was like defragging and it took me a while to figure out how to play. Fun game, though.
pmelendez
Quoting OP's:

|> it inspired me to create this small game.

It was inspiration, not a simulation nor it claimed to be realistic. This is the type of artistic license that game designers have always had at their disposal.

danbruc
I am not complaining about how the game works, I am just saying that there are no instructions, so the only thing I have to work with is the name and the inspiration. And if you know how defragmentation works, this all just makes no sense, why does it automatically select blocks, why can I not move them repeatedly and to any free space? Sure, most people do not know what defragmentation is and how it works, even in developer circles I would not expect people to know if they are not old enough to have worked with computers in the 90s, they might hear about this in one computer science lecture and never think about it again.
kwhitefoot
I'm pretty sure that there have been disk formats that only write files to consecutive sectors just like memory allocators that only return contiguous blocks of memory.

Then you need frequent compaction of the space because it ends up full of small unallocated blocks.

See https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/file-allocation-methods/

guestbest
This is generally my fear in creating a game in that the players would take the name and rules more seriously than me as a designer.

I liked the game, btw as it captured a certain look and feel as well as was fun to play.

mrgoldenbrown
I think what happened here is that author didn't include instructions, the UX was not clear, and the author said if you are old enough to remember defrag you'll just know what to do. But on the Internet everyone's a pedant and many of us remember DOS/ windows defrag in more detail than the OP seems to, so there's confusion/complaining. All that is par for the course though and hopefully you will still make and share awesome games!
IshKebab
Well... yeah but also defragmenting isn't a game. If you want to make a fun game out of it you're going to need to change a few things.

That said, I can't see how this is fun tbh.

monitron
It's quite a bit more "realistic" if you imagine it as a simulation of the "Defragment Free Space" option that at least some defraggers had.
p0w3n3d
Funny game but that's not how defragmentation works. I was troubled to understand how can I choose the file by it contents or even why can't I write to a place where there is a block below it...
alliao
slightly unrealistic but fun idea.. makes me wonder if there are any benefit in AI powered caching algorithm or maybe that's what all the cloud providers are reaping benefits from...
boo-ga-ga
Lovely game, great animations, everything feels smooth.
memming
The domain appears to be flagged as "gambling" under Cisco Umbrella service. (Yes, I clicked on the link at work.)
kwhitefoot
Surely it should have a leader board?