I'm a software engineer trying to build an agency, would love to hear anything(literally) about how can an engineer learn to generate leads and convert them.
Thanks!
These are very important, but at the same time easy to overlook, questions to have answers for.
Thanks for reminding! Making sure i got every one of them down.
Sales is a matter of talking to people you know. There is no shortcut. The work is:
1. Meet people.
2. Get to know them.
3. Make a pitch if they have a problem they will pay you for.
4. Get paid.
That their problem inclines them to pay you is the only important feature of the problem and that you get paid is the only important feature of your service.
Meeting people is literally meeting people.
Getting to know them means time and effort spent fashioning a relationship. B2B relationships are long term. You can assume that people who regularly use agencies already have agencies they work with and will continue to work barring change to their business or the agency's business. These happen but not on a high pressure timeline. Consulting is a long con. Good luck.
The fundamentals of software sales haven't changed much since this. While B2C SaaS is different, the B2B platform world is still much as described in this book, and more importantly, the buyers are still the people who were buying when this book was published.
While selling today should have changed, many of the enterprise procurement processes that were being set up as this was published are still the same. That makes this an excellent foundation for understanding how to change it up.
That said, you said building an agency ... so do you mean selling software, or selling the ability to deliver solutions that a company can't get off the shelf?
4 reviews. 3 stars. A hundred quid. This has got to be the most erudite book recommendation in the history of HN. I’m very tempted to get it just to see the fuss.
Genuinely curious, how you manage to derive value from this kind of LLM-assisted reading. At least in the areas I know, the gpt summaries are wrong and generic enough to the point that a read of the book summary, or a read of the preface, is more useful than what the AI returns. If I want to summarize something I provide, it works great. But for these more general overviews I don't trust it.
The handful of business style books I have run through it are wildly accurate and did a great job of summarizing the book chapter by chapter. I would probably not rely on it for technical books but for business books that often have only a handful of key ideas, it works great.
Have you used much software yourself? If you know the difference between good and bad software (ahem, Electron-based apps are inherently bad software), then you have everything within you to write good software.
The principles of selling software successfully are thus:
* Charge a low price. A low price gets many customers, and a high price gets fewer, but the money earned equals about the same. Better to have more customers, because that's more eyeballs and mouths seeing and talking about it.
* Make the software available for as many platforms as possible, with GNU/Linux being a first-class citizen. Although most of your customers will use macOS and Windows, having GNU/Linux support signals robustness and longevity, earning trust.
* Use a generous license. Best to AGPLv3+ -- competitors can't beat it. If others share your program gratis, it just leads to even more official customers. Any changes can be reincorporated into the official software, so the first-mover advantage is everything.
* The software must be GOOD. It's got to save people time in their otherwise busy lives, and it has to be robust -- it has to work every time. The software has to know when things won't work, and fail gracefully. This is what sets hobby-ware apart from professional-ware.
* Update the software regularly, and keep in contact with customers in a visible public place -- even if it's just a static, one-directional web page. Let people -- and search engines -- know the project is chugging along. Give customers something to look forwards to.
* Fill a niche, and give the software a broad appeal. A tool with "something for everyone" -- features that not everyone uses, but everyone uses SOME features -- is important to have.
* Write GREAT documentation, and typeset it with LaTeX. This is important to convey quality. Hobby-ware has a Readme.txt -- professional-ware has a PDF manual that is so well-written, it could be printed out, put in a box with the software on a CD, and shipped.
* Record the project into history. Be everywhere on relevant forums, and push the product when it's relevant. When someone has a problem that your software fixes, they will see those comments -- even years from now -- and that helpful, relevant advice is genuine marketing that stays posted forever. Bought ads don't come anywhere near that kind of value.
And, as far as the actual software is concerned, write it in a popular language with a popular graphics toolkit. Python 3 + Qt5 or 6 -- using PyInstaller to generate single-file executables -- is dang near perfect. Stick to conventional user interface guidelines. Build software that you, yourself, use everyday. Don't work on software that you don't use personally.
Familiarize yourself with macOS software of the 1990s (most software of this era was good, most software today is bad), and this article -- How To Design Software Good. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/HIG/index.xml
I literally sell software according to these principles, and several customers per week email just to tell me (and I quote) that it is "a breath of fresh air."
It's called reMarkable Connection Utility (RCU). It's an all-in-one management client for reMarkable e-paper tablets that works locally/offline, and lets users escape the manufacturer's proprietary cloud/subscription. Works like an iTunes-for-reMarkable.
Are you trying to sell a product or build a services business? Very different things! I have some books I like on software sales, but not for services businesses; most of the successful services businesses I'm familiar with didn't include a salesperson in their founding team.
We are 2 engineers who want to find businesses and create value for them from scratch, not only be concerned with technical stuff(like in our current careers).
This is what we are passionate about & we are trying to sell service.
BTW here is the landing page: https://www.mazeg.io/en
I know this is unsolicited advice and feedback so take the following as you will.
Your website looks pretty nifty but the different speeds with which the tech and domain listings scroll made me motion-sick, I realize this is a me problem. Maybe slow down the tech listing or have them going at the same speed? (I only checked on desktop btw)
Also if you can it would be nice to book a photographer to take portrait shots of you and your co-founder, maybe a combined photo for mobile? Just a suggestion because I believe it would look cooler than simple profile pictures and it would showcase your personalities even better. (You both seem cool dudes)
I have some experience with this. There are multiple ways to get a services firm on its feet. The ways I've seen engineers be successful doing this on their own, without capital investment, generally involve:
1. Growing a public profile for the firm (low effort: blogging/content; medium effort: strategic open source contribution; high effort: direct outreach community building, setting up events, doing trainings)
2. Landing a couple early customers and bending over backwards for them
3. Using endorsements, case studies, and word of mouth from those customers to grow the business.
One strategy that can work: find ways to specialize (ideally: not on specific technologies, though AI might be an exception at the moment; specializing for specific verticals) to make landing and expanding within specific segments. We did this, for instance, with intitutional financial technology (trading, FIX, etc). The idea (early on) isn't to stay with that practice focus area, but rather to streamline that 1-2-3 process.
What I've seen tried, but haven't seen work: cold-calling, direct email, account management style sales.
The good news here is I'm not sure there's a whole lot of sales domain knowledge you need to execute this strategy. The bad news is that there's no substitute for hard work in it.
Probably the most important things to know going into this:
* Your rates need to account for "feast or famine" cycles in your business, meaning they should be drastically higher than your current FTE comp backed out to a bill rate; 2x is a floor not a ceiling. The first year of a services firm is usually terrifying (at least, on the pipeline calls) and if you've set things up right the reassurance you have, when there are no projects set to close in the next 8 weeks, is that you only need to be 40% utilized to match your previous FTE comp.
* If you've positioned the firm correctly, the big problem in your market should be that buyers don't have enough options for firms to do the work; for instance, lead times for new projects being 3 months out would be a good sign. This is market research you can just go do! I transitioned a few years ago from a seller of services to a buyer and it was eye opening; we hadn't succeeded, in my previous firms, by hustling, but rather by positioning ourselves in places where customers were already tearing their hair out trying to find a trustworthy firm that could start a project within the next quarter.
Are you selling a solution? Solution selling talks about complex sales.
I lost my old book, but this one looks good: mastering technical sales.
The entire sales process is pretty interesting. There was a book on the buyer mindset that i can't find. But essentially there's the dream period and the fear period, and one of sales' jobs is to move the customer psychologically from the "everything will be great" past the "omg how is this going to work" to signing.
> I lost my old book, but this one looks good: mastering technical sales.
Mastering Technical Sales is a book about and for sales engineers. It isn't going to help someone who doesn't know how to prospect, close a deal, etc. do those things.
It might be a good idea to get some training or coaching. I learned Sandler but there are probably others. There is a book that’s an intro to the system called You Can’t Teach a Kid to Ride a Bike at a Seminar
Founding Sales is a great book for non sales people who need to learn sales for their own startup / business. Sounds like this is what you're after. Free to read, too. https://www.foundingsales.com/
Get Founding Sales by Pete Kazanjy (https://www.foundingsales.com/). It's written by a tech founder for founders, and he also runs some popular events and forums for the startup community.
Second vote for Spin Selling from me. Spin Selling is a must read for anyone doing long-term sales-- in particular, selling software that has a long sales cycle like a year from the time you get a prospect until you close the sale. But it has other key concepts for smaller software packages too that you'll find useful if you're doing something smaller.
The Mom Test teaches you how to ask the right questions to make sure potential customers actually have a need for and will pay for what you are building vs. lying to be polite. The Mom Test: How to talk to customers & learn if your business is a good idea when everyone is lying to you https://a.co/d/8rxZlJ7
97 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 147 ms ] threadWho’s the client?
How will you find them? Where are they? How will you communicate with them? How will you get them to use your agency?
That’s the trick
Edit: spelling
He's a software engineer who's been building his business in the open for the last year and is sharing what he learns along the way.
Meeting people is literally meeting people.
Getting to know them means time and effort spent fashioning a relationship. B2B relationships are long term. You can assume that people who regularly use agencies already have agencies they work with and will continue to work barring change to their business or the agency's business. These happen but not on a high pressure timeline. Consulting is a long con. Good luck.
Selling Microsoft - https://www.amazon.com/Selling-Microsoft-Secrets-Successful-...
The fundamentals of software sales haven't changed much since this. While B2C SaaS is different, the B2B platform world is still much as described in this book, and more importantly, the buyers are still the people who were buying when this book was published.
While selling today should have changed, many of the enterprise procurement processes that were being set up as this was published are still the same. That makes this an excellent foundation for understanding how to change it up.
That said, you said building an agency ... so do you mean selling software, or selling the ability to deliver solutions that a company can't get off the shelf?
That's quite different.
The principles of selling software successfully are thus:
* Charge a low price. A low price gets many customers, and a high price gets fewer, but the money earned equals about the same. Better to have more customers, because that's more eyeballs and mouths seeing and talking about it.
* Make the software available for as many platforms as possible, with GNU/Linux being a first-class citizen. Although most of your customers will use macOS and Windows, having GNU/Linux support signals robustness and longevity, earning trust.
* Use a generous license. Best to AGPLv3+ -- competitors can't beat it. If others share your program gratis, it just leads to even more official customers. Any changes can be reincorporated into the official software, so the first-mover advantage is everything.
* The software must be GOOD. It's got to save people time in their otherwise busy lives, and it has to be robust -- it has to work every time. The software has to know when things won't work, and fail gracefully. This is what sets hobby-ware apart from professional-ware.
* Update the software regularly, and keep in contact with customers in a visible public place -- even if it's just a static, one-directional web page. Let people -- and search engines -- know the project is chugging along. Give customers something to look forwards to.
* Fill a niche, and give the software a broad appeal. A tool with "something for everyone" -- features that not everyone uses, but everyone uses SOME features -- is important to have.
* Write GREAT documentation, and typeset it with LaTeX. This is important to convey quality. Hobby-ware has a Readme.txt -- professional-ware has a PDF manual that is so well-written, it could be printed out, put in a box with the software on a CD, and shipped.
* Record the project into history. Be everywhere on relevant forums, and push the product when it's relevant. When someone has a problem that your software fixes, they will see those comments -- even years from now -- and that helpful, relevant advice is genuine marketing that stays posted forever. Bought ads don't come anywhere near that kind of value.
And, as far as the actual software is concerned, write it in a popular language with a popular graphics toolkit. Python 3 + Qt5 or 6 -- using PyInstaller to generate single-file executables -- is dang near perfect. Stick to conventional user interface guidelines. Build software that you, yourself, use everyday. Don't work on software that you don't use personally.
Familiarize yourself with macOS software of the 1990s (most software of this era was good, most software today is bad), and this article -- How To Design Software Good. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/HIG/index.xml
Why would you think this is parody?
https://www.davisr.me/projects/rcu/
SOLD. My biggest gripe with reMarkable
edit: I don't remember tbh
Founding Sales https://www.foundingsales.com/
Your website looks pretty nifty but the different speeds with which the tech and domain listings scroll made me motion-sick, I realize this is a me problem. Maybe slow down the tech listing or have them going at the same speed? (I only checked on desktop btw)
Also if you can it would be nice to book a photographer to take portrait shots of you and your co-founder, maybe a combined photo for mobile? Just a suggestion because I believe it would look cooler than simple profile pictures and it would showcase your personalities even better. (You both seem cool dudes)
1. Growing a public profile for the firm (low effort: blogging/content; medium effort: strategic open source contribution; high effort: direct outreach community building, setting up events, doing trainings)
2. Landing a couple early customers and bending over backwards for them
3. Using endorsements, case studies, and word of mouth from those customers to grow the business.
One strategy that can work: find ways to specialize (ideally: not on specific technologies, though AI might be an exception at the moment; specializing for specific verticals) to make landing and expanding within specific segments. We did this, for instance, with intitutional financial technology (trading, FIX, etc). The idea (early on) isn't to stay with that practice focus area, but rather to streamline that 1-2-3 process.
What I've seen tried, but haven't seen work: cold-calling, direct email, account management style sales.
The good news here is I'm not sure there's a whole lot of sales domain knowledge you need to execute this strategy. The bad news is that there's no substitute for hard work in it.
Probably the most important things to know going into this:
* Your rates need to account for "feast or famine" cycles in your business, meaning they should be drastically higher than your current FTE comp backed out to a bill rate; 2x is a floor not a ceiling. The first year of a services firm is usually terrifying (at least, on the pipeline calls) and if you've set things up right the reassurance you have, when there are no projects set to close in the next 8 weeks, is that you only need to be 40% utilized to match your previous FTE comp.
* If you've positioned the firm correctly, the big problem in your market should be that buyers don't have enough options for firms to do the work; for instance, lead times for new projects being 3 months out would be a good sign. This is market research you can just go do! I transitioned a few years ago from a seller of services to a buyer and it was eye opening; we hadn't succeeded, in my previous firms, by hustling, but rather by positioning ourselves in places where customers were already tearing their hair out trying to find a trustworthy firm that could start a project within the next quarter.
Hope that helps!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39316653
From that posting this comment seems useful:
The Secrets of Consulting: A Guide to Giving and Getting Advice Successfully by Gerald Weinberg
https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Consulting-Giving-Getting-Suc...
+The Sales Handbook: https://www.intercom.com/resources/books/sales-handbook
If you are planning to build enterprise software solutions then I highly recommend this book. It contains very helpfull checklists and templates.
Also while not exactly about sales, "Softwar" (a bio of Larry Ellison) has a ton of great insights on enterprise sales
I've found Robert Cialdini's Influence to be a great read!
Are you selling a solution? Solution selling talks about complex sales.
I lost my old book, but this one looks good: mastering technical sales.
The entire sales process is pretty interesting. There was a book on the buyer mindset that i can't find. But essentially there's the dream period and the fear period, and one of sales' jobs is to move the customer psychologically from the "everything will be great" past the "omg how is this going to work" to signing.
Mastering Technical Sales is a book about and for sales engineers. It isn't going to help someone who doesn't know how to prospect, close a deal, etc. do those things.
But not sure how applicable to agencies it is so YMMV.
in my experience someone who programs usually can't sell
hire a marketing expert from your industry