Ask HN: How do you cope with a deluge of job applications?
So (inspired by actual events), I’m writing a freelanced article, "Upending the hiring process for technical talent.” Although the topic applies to any job search situation, the story is tuned to software developers and other tech fields, and I expect both remote work and AI to be primary factors.
Getting thousands of applications is nuts for both the company and the applicants. My question is, "What — if anything — can be done to make the process more sane for everybody?"
I would love input from the wise people here. (Formal attribution is not required, but context is helpful for verisimilitude: "...says one program lead from a midwest insurance firm.") I know you have opinions. However, the HIVE MIND responses I care about should come from people affected by this change – primarily HR professionals and tech industry hiring managers. My short (?) list of questions:
• How many job applications do you typically get today for a technical position such as a software engineer? How has that number changed? • Are there differences in the applications? I’m open to anything from “remote work expanded the number of people who want to work here” to “They are impersonal and seem AI-generated” to… well, what? Tell me. • How do you triage the applications (no / maybe / worth talking to)? How long does it take? For HR, what percentage of the applications are provided to the hiring managers? For hiring managers, how does that percentage make you feel? • How have you changed job listings? For instance, are you asking for more information in the application process or including more detail in the job req? Are you employing tools that claim to sort responses? Are you offering salary transparency so that nobody wastes time when the numbers don’t align? • What changes have you implemented in the job process? (Turning more to recruiters, for instance? Relying more on employee referrals?) • Is “return to office” an issue here? (I would imagine that “local candidates only” would reduce the number of applications, but I don’t want to assume too much about any HR connection.) • Regardless of what your company IS doing to deal with the job application deluge, what — if anything — do you think COULD be done to make the process more sane for everybody? What would you do if you could wave a magic wand to address the problem?
46 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 101 ms ] threadThe real problem is spam. Of those 2,000 I bet at least 75% are just useless time wasters (no work authorisation, wrong TZ, complete mismatch in what was asked for, outright fraud, etc.) They're just shot-gunning everything. Much of this is probably bot'd.
Like most spam, you can't really lose by sending it: it's free to send and there is no global "time wasting shitdicks" blacklist to put these people on (many companies don't even keep internal list for this). So you can endlessly vomit in everyone's face and never suffer any consequences.
Not saying it is impossible but you need to be very explicit and realistic in the language of the advertisement.
I imagine that will filter out a good swath of robo-submitters as well as those with low attention to detail (but maybe not the chatGPT responders).
I attribute it to so many people shotgunning resumes and this weeds them out, so I’m more likely to be noticed.
1.Job hunting is dehumanizing: Most of the time you will receive no response to a carefully worded cover letter. There is no option to speak with a human, or point of contact. (I dub this /Throwing hope into the void and see what sticks/.)
2.Job hunting is primarily online. From searching job posts to application, the reach of an open position is literally world-wide.
3.Due to Covid, remote work is now in the zeitgeist, opening up remote work to many who otherwise wouldn't have considered it.
4.Digital tools for resume writing and bulk sending.
5.The stagnation of salaries, increased cost of living, and poor investment options has forced many into living paycheck to paycheck. In order to /get ahead/ the only option is to constantly seek new positions.
The deluge recruiters are feeling is merely the tip of a iceberg.
If you fail at job hunting, you end up homeless. And lonely.
Hiring is like dating from a woman's point of view, you post the job and then sift through an exhausting number of dud applicants for one that you think is up to the job and is not an asshole.
Applying to jobs is like dating from a man's point of view, you take a punt, over and over again, getting ghosted or if you're lucky, rejected, in the hopes of landing that first date and showing your charm.
And like online dating, applying for jobs works much better if you skip the online part entirely and instead use your networks in the real world to make connections.
It should be noted that many companies don’t have any entry-level roles open. That’s not ideal, but new grads are arriving with minimal practical skills while the landscape of complexity continues to increase. Sure the top tier are amazing but they go to FANG to get rich on RSUs, or become a founder themselves.
Yeah and how are you supposed to get those skills if no one is hiring you?
Unfortunately, this complaint is echoed across many industries.
I think the grads cant get hired is overstated.
Beancounters can't resist a the lower $ per neuron of hiring grads.
The main difference intern vs grad is tbey know you'll leave soon for uni so it tends to be not too deep. The project will be something quick go get started on and probably not the main gnarly monorepo.
But yeah internship can also mean making tea... metaphorically.
https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/09/06/finding-great-deve...
Working within the staff’s professional networks is the way to avoid the deluge. As a consequence, you need to be a place people want to work and hire people who other people want to work with.
Otherwise, you hire staff that allows the organization to manage the deluge. Managing the deluge needs to be someone’s priority — not be a distraction from someone’s performance metrics. It’s the kind of thing that makes a place a place people want to work.
Exception: high up moves to a company and brings a bunch of henchmen along. But this has its own issues around bias/fairness. Have you been trojaned?
They work the way they work because the people want to work together. The motivation is not a one time bonus. It is working with people you want to work with and who want to work with you.
A lot of people are not the kind of people other people want to work with. That’s what happened to their careers,
I meant to say the bonus is a poor motivation for anyone. You can get 5 bonuses a year for no effort by asking for a higher salary or good tax planning!
So for many you burn social capital by trying to recruit to your company. It only is worth it if you think your company is good and the job would be such a good match for John that he should leave his job and vesting etc.
The exception to this is bringing across people you like to worth with.
I am sure that this happens and can be good. I have not seen it happen at IC or Manager level (although heard of it talking ti someone at a meetup).
I have seen VC level do it so 2 levels above manager bringing their mates across. I have seen this usually lead to a bad outcome for existing staff and the business.
e.g.
- Do you have a legal right to work in x
- Have you had y years experience in z
- Could you indicate which of the following you are familiar with
Obviously, all of these things are usually included in an application, but having them associated with applications in a standard format that can be used to filter or prioritise applicants could be very helpful I imagine.
This probably exists, but I'm not in the field and very rarely apply for jobs so I wouldn't know.
I never once got an interview from those companies.
We had a position that received around 1000 applicants.
Only around 200 had the most basic keywords the job required, like “python” and “SQL”
Only around 50 of those had a cover letter.
Only around 20 of the cover letters mentioned our company by name.
Only 1 applicant called the office and asked to speak with us.
High effort may just indicate someone is desperate for work, which is perhaps not the best sign.
Is that desirable behavior?
A lot of applicants won’t even have their CV looked at, simply because we will hire someone before we have time to get through them all.
We need something like driving tests for this basic stuff. Do it every 10 yrs. Standard vocational qualifications that all companies accept. Likena forklift.
Only if it’s a core part of the job (it wasn’t in our case, we were fine if the candidate eats with their hands).
You're right, we will absolutely filter out a lot of good people. We aren’t trying to find the best, and it’s not obvious that if we did read through every application in detail that it would result in a better outcome, because it would take significantly longer and good applicants will have had other offers by then.
Otherwise screen with a 5 to 10 minute quiz. Which also would probably encur the wrath of a HN snark from someone else but I accept these sorts of thing as a necessary evil and fair modulo creating more work for busy people.
Hopefully it is the ones on the job ad.
I am not suggesting lying.... this is about 100-1000 technologies buzzword lists based on wide experience.
I have used MySQL, InnoDB, MyIsam, Full Text Search, Foreign Keys, MySQL Flexible Instances on Azure, ...
It was a fantastic hire, but ultimately entirely random.
I have never used one of them, but I am curious if those who have used them really think that their service ended up being worthwhile.