Women become empowered more rapidly, leading to a cohort of young (Gen Z) men with limited economic and romantic prospects. Like an environment changing faster than a species can adapt to it.
South Korea has had this for a while (women opting out in a harmful/adversarial macro) and China did this with their one child policy and cultural beliefs.
> More than 60 percent of young men are single, nearly twice the rate of unattached young women, signaling a larger breakdown in the social, romantic and sexual life of the American male.
> Men in their 20s are more likely than women in their 20s to be romantically uninvolved, sexually dormant, friendless and lonely. They stand at the vanguard of an epidemic of declining marriage, sexuality and relationships that afflicts all of young America.
> “Women don’t need to be in long-term relationships. They don’t need to be married. They’d rather go to brunch with friends than have a horrible date,” said Greg Matos, a couple and family psychologist in Los Angeles, who recently penned a viral article titled “What’s Behind the Rise of Lonely, Single Men.”
> Heterosexual women are getting more choosy. Women “don’t want to marry down,” to form a long-term relationship to a man with less education and earnings than herself, said Ronald Levant, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Akron and author of several books on masculinity.
> “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.”
> The strategy reflected a reality that has since been unveiled by the results—a gendered battle intensified by young people, who are fighting for a sense of individual purchase on a world they have barely begun to properly live in. Those Pennsylvania exit polls. The ones in North Carolina, where young female voters went for Harris by thirty-three points and young male voters went for Trump by twenty-three. The fact that the entire nation, more or less, is shifting rightward at least a little, but that men aged eighteen to twenty-nine have moved almost thirty points rightward since 2020. If the 2016 election illuminated the shocking state of white women’s loyalties, the 2024 election has instantly done the same for young men.
This wave of propaganda is super weird, they were so excited (and confident) to bring in the first female president less than 3 days ago... then all of a sudden all this reactionary news comes out about "the consequences" before anyone could possibly react to anything yet
I will believe it when we get an actual impact in the relationship statistics. Right now its post election craziness where people post to vent their frustration. If that will have an impact in a year is to be seen. But honestly I doubt many women would voluntarily give up having a fulfilling relationship with a man they love.
This also came up in 2016 and never manifested into anything. Again after Roe's overturn - nothing. It will once again be nothing. Worse now for your "movement" however is Trump made significant gains with women. The effectiveness of such a movement lies in the majority. Even among leftist women I would bet good money less than 10% would follow such a thing. If anything this type of thing enshrines the very loud gender war being promoted by the media. People who aren't terminally online don't care as much as you think.
It follows the same pattern as people whining and crying saying they're going to seek asylum in Canada. While a fringe minority did it once again was just an eye-grabbing headline. This type of nonsense has happened, as far as I can remember, since Bush in 2004. Every time a Republican gets into power the tankies make wild, public, performances and then proceed to do absolutely nothing, ever.
So, in conclusion "you" won't do anything - at all. Life will go on like normal. Just like 2016, and just like 2020. Turn off the TV.
This 4B movement is also patently misogynistic in that it assume the only way for women to bring about change is through saying no to dating, marriage, sex and childbirth. Woman are intelligent beings is this the only option available to them? really? Is this the only way they can be heard? No.
> Again after Roe's overturn - nothing. It will once again be nothing.
Something that campaigns haven't grappled with yet is that turning over abortion to states has been an extremely stable outcome. A supermajority of people will be happy with whatever their state's law is, whichever it tilts to. Very few people are going to vote on a national campaign to overturn another state's law, and even fewer if they are on the side of personal rights..
As a issue for a national campaign it's a loser and will only cost you votes.
The population decreased in South Korea because they did not have immigration. The population will continue to meet the needs of the demands for labor through immigration or birth in the United States because it needs to maintain the leadership of the Global Order. The vested interests from the Capitalists, to the Technocrats to those who continue to push the boundaries and seek human progress will NEVER LET this happen. People who are part of this 4B movement are entitled to continue do to so, but when there is a demand for humans immigration will fill in the gaps and we will continue towards human progress unencumbered.
In fact when they continue with this 4B movement no one should necessarily oppose them, let them work and pay taxes which will be used to build the infrastructure for the next generation. Anti-natalist movements cannot last more than three generations
How are men treating women like “worthless objects”? Is it something specific (like abortion law in a particular state?) or a general feeling or something else?
> Following President-elect Trump’s victory — which was fueled by male voters
Not sure if I buy the "gender war" framing of the national election. According to the stats in the linked article, there was a modest but not crazy 6% differential in between genders this election cycle, which is closer than it was last election (14%)!
> women between the ages of 18 and 29 preferred Harris 58% to 40%, their male peers chose Trump 56% to 42%
I believe this age group correctly represents the kind of people taking this supposed movement seriously. Have they considered their own female friends may also be Trump supporters? The difference is just 2% between men and women.
The left is doing what it always does when it loses, turning on itself. Plenty of feminists are blaming white women as a bloc, and other women for "white adjacent" behavior as they call it. They're turning against Latinos, Arabs and Native Americans as well.
People are angry and looking for scapegoats, and one thing modern intersectional leftism does well is provide convenient scapegoats.
Well during the 2020 elections we the losing group storm the capitol hoping to round up politicians and string them up so i'll take a little soul searching / blaming over that.
I mean yeah, but they got away with it, it only made them more popular, and then they walked away with complete control of the government at all levels when the left gifted them an own goal on principle.
Soul searching is cool and all but I'd rather have... I don't know... a country not entirely run by fascists and sociopaths, steeped in intractable systemic racism and misogyny, fueled by a global campaign of imperialist violence and justifiably hated and mocked by the rest of the world.
But I guess not showing up to the polls because the less evil option wasn't sufficiently anti-genocide, even though it means letting an even more pro-genocide guy win, is at least a moral victory. I guess I can savor that when they stuff me into the crystal.
Things are just so nuts that I don't think it's safe to say that opposing genocide would have benefited Harris. Going all-in on genocide may have benefited the campaign.
News cares about subjects that impact women. Not so much men. So when Trump or anyone else is elected that men rally behind, it’s a shock, it’s betrayal, it’s this it’s that.
It’s a trite and boring remark. You can do better.
When someone’s bargaining chip in geopolitical, economical, territorial and social affairs lies between their legs, it’s time to reconsider if they’re at the right table armed with the right arguments. This has been perennial. At a certain state of things, countries will shift from caring about two sexes as opposing halves and will bolt down as a means of preserving a country and a people. Look to China who is, against all odds, leading the way resoundingly.
As it stands, this 4B thing is an absurd stance brought out of a country that’s facing far worse circumstances than US of A. I’ve outlined who it would negatively impact the most. In this case, it’s much like being hoisted by one’s petard. It’s also an infeasible strategy because it has too many weaknesses that are immediately flanked.
2016 had Pussy Hat Protests that went nowhere. I suspect this is more of the same.
I can’t comment on what a proper and effective response to the election would be. It would certainly help if Democrats got together and put forward a candidate that gives a damn about the country and the rights of the people. But they didn’t, so the “other party” that actually cares will enact policies that benefit them instead. And they have tremendous support of a rather large population, so who am I to argue otherwise?
Men are used to being shamed for things that are not their fault at all. So this does not change the status quo much for most.
In the meantime, we’ll kvetch and play pretend and amuse ourselves by drumming up as much chaos and rage as we can over this world wide web of ours.
If this does escalate and rape cases increased, who would help? Men? The same ones that are despised?
As a closing remark to anyone on HN thinking this is a viable strategy: when you go to war with someone, dig a grave for two.
Fuck I hope not. South Korea is precisely what not to learn from if you don't want a whole generation of young people thriving on hating opposite sexes.
This will be an absolute nothing, like moving to Canada. Lots of Americans said they'd do it in 2016, how many did? Probably less than 1% of those who said they would. It's a good, sensational story for the media - sex sells - but of the women who aren't already celibate I doubt more than 1% will stick to it after a month or two.
Not to mention, there's not actually that much of a difference between men and women in terms of Trump support or abortion - 45% of Trump votes were women and according to Gallup more women think abortion should always be illegal and 49% described themselves as pro-life.
Good. Fight for your right. I’m pissed at Florida for not passing abortion with 58% vote. That’s the majority that got ignored. Passed in 5 other states.
44 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 94.3 ms ] threadhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata
The misogynistic posts referenced in the NPR article are so sad. What have we become?
South Korea has had this for a while (women opting out in a harmful/adversarial macro) and China did this with their one child policy and cultural beliefs.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3868557-most-yo...
> More than 60 percent of young men are single, nearly twice the rate of unattached young women, signaling a larger breakdown in the social, romantic and sexual life of the American male.
> Men in their 20s are more likely than women in their 20s to be romantically uninvolved, sexually dormant, friendless and lonely. They stand at the vanguard of an epidemic of declining marriage, sexuality and relationships that afflicts all of young America.
> “Women don’t need to be in long-term relationships. They don’t need to be married. They’d rather go to brunch with friends than have a horrible date,” said Greg Matos, a couple and family psychologist in Los Angeles, who recently penned a viral article titled “What’s Behind the Rise of Lonely, Single Men.”
> Heterosexual women are getting more choosy. Women “don’t want to marry down,” to form a long-term relationship to a man with less education and earnings than herself, said Ronald Levant, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Akron and author of several books on masculinity.
> “Today in America, women expect more from men,” Levant said, “and unfortunately, so many men don’t have more to give.”
https://archive.md/2024.11.07-110605/https://www.newyorker.c...
> The strategy reflected a reality that has since been unveiled by the results—a gendered battle intensified by young people, who are fighting for a sense of individual purchase on a world they have barely begun to properly live in. Those Pennsylvania exit polls. The ones in North Carolina, where young female voters went for Harris by thirty-three points and young male voters went for Trump by twenty-three. The fact that the entire nation, more or less, is shifting rightward at least a little, but that men aged eighteen to twenty-nine have moved almost thirty points rightward since 2020. If the 2016 election illuminated the shocking state of white women’s loyalties, the 2024 election has instantly done the same for young men.
https://apnews.com/article/women-voters-kamala-harris-swift-... (“Young women are more liberal than they’ve been in decades, a Gallup analysis finds”)
https://news.gallup.com/poll/649826/exploring-young-women-le... (“Exploring Young Women's Leftward Expansion”)
However there's a pretty stark difference between how their narratives begin:
1. "My isolation is unjust, from bad people attempting to hurt me."
2. "My isolation is justified way to make bad people feel hurt."
Combine those two confrontational stories with a male/female split, and you get four quadrants.
When men do it it's cowardly and needy, a result of being so unworthy that no reasonable person would want to be around them.
We the people will continue to exist. This society shall endure!
It follows the same pattern as people whining and crying saying they're going to seek asylum in Canada. While a fringe minority did it once again was just an eye-grabbing headline. This type of nonsense has happened, as far as I can remember, since Bush in 2004. Every time a Republican gets into power the tankies make wild, public, performances and then proceed to do absolutely nothing, ever.
So, in conclusion "you" won't do anything - at all. Life will go on like normal. Just like 2016, and just like 2020. Turn off the TV.
Something that campaigns haven't grappled with yet is that turning over abortion to states has been an extremely stable outcome. A supermajority of people will be happy with whatever their state's law is, whichever it tilts to. Very few people are going to vote on a national campaign to overturn another state's law, and even fewer if they are on the side of personal rights..
As a issue for a national campaign it's a loser and will only cost you votes.
My only worry is if this ends up playing into the extremists' hands. Still, one must do what one can when fighting for one's rights.
Not sure if I buy the "gender war" framing of the national election. According to the stats in the linked article, there was a modest but not crazy 6% differential in between genders this election cycle, which is closer than it was last election (14%)!
I believe this age group correctly represents the kind of people taking this supposed movement seriously. Have they considered their own female friends may also be Trump supporters? The difference is just 2% between men and women.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/06/election-tru...
People are angry and looking for scapegoats, and one thing modern intersectional leftism does well is provide convenient scapegoats.
Soul searching is cool and all but I'd rather have... I don't know... a country not entirely run by fascists and sociopaths, steeped in intractable systemic racism and misogyny, fueled by a global campaign of imperialist violence and justifiably hated and mocked by the rest of the world.
But I guess not showing up to the polls because the less evil option wasn't sufficiently anti-genocide, even though it means letting an even more pro-genocide guy win, is at least a moral victory. I guess I can savor that when they stuff me into the crystal.
Many single men have given up on the whole dating scene. WGTOW's see 4B's as win for them.
When someone’s bargaining chip in geopolitical, economical, territorial and social affairs lies between their legs, it’s time to reconsider if they’re at the right table armed with the right arguments. This has been perennial. At a certain state of things, countries will shift from caring about two sexes as opposing halves and will bolt down as a means of preserving a country and a people. Look to China who is, against all odds, leading the way resoundingly.
As it stands, this 4B thing is an absurd stance brought out of a country that’s facing far worse circumstances than US of A. I’ve outlined who it would negatively impact the most. In this case, it’s much like being hoisted by one’s petard. It’s also an infeasible strategy because it has too many weaknesses that are immediately flanked.
2016 had Pussy Hat Protests that went nowhere. I suspect this is more of the same.
I can’t comment on what a proper and effective response to the election would be. It would certainly help if Democrats got together and put forward a candidate that gives a damn about the country and the rights of the people. But they didn’t, so the “other party” that actually cares will enact policies that benefit them instead. And they have tremendous support of a rather large population, so who am I to argue otherwise?
Men are used to being shamed for things that are not their fault at all. So this does not change the status quo much for most.
In the meantime, we’ll kvetch and play pretend and amuse ourselves by drumming up as much chaos and rage as we can over this world wide web of ours.
If this does escalate and rape cases increased, who would help? Men? The same ones that are despised?
As a closing remark to anyone on HN thinking this is a viable strategy: when you go to war with someone, dig a grave for two.
See the brutal graph shown in this article:
https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12...
Not to mention, there's not actually that much of a difference between men and women in terms of Trump support or abortion - 45% of Trump votes were women and according to Gallup more women think abortion should always be illegal and 49% described themselves as pro-life.