Ask HN: I don't want to code anymore. What else can I do?
I've been a coder for the past 15 years. I was living and believing that software engineering is a means to an end, and refused to move away from hands on positions. I gaslighted myself into believing that I enjoy coding.
However, looking at it now, it seems like I was wrong. While I do like writing code, I've been doing it both at job and after work for my side projects, and I think I no longer can handle it.
I want to keep doing side projects, but for my job, I think I want to get away from writing code, or at least minimize it drastically. I'm considering leadership positions now, but I'm not entirely sure what's there for me.
Would appreciate some people to share their experience, how they moved away from writing code to leadership/management positions, and how I can pull it off while having minimal leadership experience.
78 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 154 ms ] threadMaybe figure out how to do the bare minimum to maintain an income while you figure out what you want to do.
Most people would rather die defending their favorite language/stack/framework than change their POV. I'm tired of wasting my time on countless meetings trying to "convince my engineering team-mates to write tests/use strongly typed languages/avoid new-age BS like lambda/k8s".
Sure, leadership feels like BS as well, but at least this BS IS the job. With coding, the job is to write code, which usually ends up being 20% of the work time anyway, so I'd rather do BS all-day and get paid for that (often times bigger salary), while doing my own thing with my own architecture and framework, than try to explain my manager why it takes 7 days to change the width of the button because the app is so over engineered that any line you touch creates a butterfly effect that can bring the entire organizations to bankruptcy.
I gave up with the technical arguments a long time ago, too much effort trying to swim against the current. You get less of that outside of the software industry -- I worked for a long time in enterprise logistics where the team had to focus a lot more on solving business problems and a lot less on "best practices" or the latest language or framework. Not exciting but not as likely to induce rage, either.
Each consulting gig reminds me why I'm not cut out for that world. It's everything coding is not. But when a corporate hires me to write some code, I understand that the corporate BS is the job .
I still love coding. But working for a corporate is not coding (at any level). Coding is what you get to do when there's a gap between meetings.
I know jobs are hard to get right now. But you might find more joy working in a small company, with people who already fit your preferred tech choices. I will say there's somewhat less job security and a lot less pay, but equally there's no bs and there's more freedom to actually code.
With 15 years experience, you must have had times you were a team leader or even a designer. Those roles can be amplified and used as a stepping stone.
I am a programmer from Russia. I live in Siberia. I have not been able to find a job for a year. I continue to look, but I have already started to do some part-time work.
I participate in low-paid projects on image marking for training neural networks, checking the quality of their work.
I wanted to get a job in delivery, but our city is too small, and there is not even a delivery service. The only work in our city is drivers and store clerks, but also very low-paid (USD 300 per month).
I am doing a project to create a new programming language based on the C language, to unload the human brain from programming and give the opportunity to write programs in a human language. If you are interested, there is the first link to the article on my site azhibaev.com
Sounds like a good way to start hating your favourite activity.
On the one hand, yes. Turning fun into work can rob you of the pleasure part. I do ceramics in as a hobby and it's fun. I'm not terribly good. The fun is in the random creation and seeing how it comes out. If I had to make 100 pots the same I'd go mad. I made one piece on commission and I didn't like that.
On the other hand, I started programming at 12 years old. I got my first programming job at 22. By then I was well practiced at my craft, and I loved the work part - the completion of projects, the conforming to customer requirements etc.
Thirty-something years later and I'm still programming. I still enjoy it. It still gets me out of bed, and it still challenges me. I've made a career put of doing something I love, and that's a huge blessing.
So yes, it can kill joy in something you love, or it can lead to a fulfilling career getting paid for doing the thing you like most. The latter though is a rare gift most of us are not given.
I did management a few times and didn't like it. Keep in mind that no matter what you do, if you're in a corporate environment, that's still going to be a problem.
Would probably be difficult to do that nowadays, although it's tempting. I doubt my partner would be comfortable with me being away from home that long, though. Even me going to a convention for a few days seems to be pushing it sometimes.
There used to be a monthly hacker night meetup near here at an app dev shop, and that was fun to go to and code around other people, but that died with the pandemic.
There was one time period about 20 years ago of about two months where I did a daily sabbatical to the library when I was in between jobs, and spent ~4 hours just working on my games each day (and I started the day with about an hour reading classic books before heading to the quiet work area). I remember growing a lot as a programmer then, and I released one Flash game and made major progress on another during that time.
I plan on doing nothing computer related for the first few months. I need to get healthy again. Once I get healthy I'm gonna spend some time doing deep dives into the new hotness (probably AI), then look for another startup type company who won't shackle creativity and ambition with useless process (scrum).
Or maybe I'll just do some contract work here and there and be semi-retired.
At the end of this summer, I started working on a software project I've wanted to build for a long time. Programming is so much more fun when you don't have people breathing down your neck asking when it will done, and why are you not completing all your story points in the sprint.
I had a problem that took me three days to figure out. I wasn't stressed at all and was able to just focus on the problem. It has also been enjoyable because I can choose the technologies I want to use. There have also been a couple of times where I start working with something and say I don't like this and go with something else.
I think it has been good to have this project before going back to work. It helped me to start like working with computers again.
You'll do minimum coding unless you want to code for fun and try new ideas. If you have research funding you can become the project lead but the pressure is much less than industry since only prototyping demo not shipping.
The academic institutions will really appreciate your experiences and students as well.
I wish all the best for whatever you decided to do.
I constantly fantasize about teaching but stop quickly after reality hits.
The problem is that teaching is a small part of the job, and has been steadily shrinking for years. Almost every other part is terrible.
My spouse is no longer a teacher.
It really sucks that most of us have to choose between doing something that we're interested in and doing something that pays the bills.
we choose to kill ourselves staring at the screens all day to make a few extra bucks ;)
The traditional routes to PM are from engineering, design, or an MBA -- so you'll be taking one of the classic paths. Basically try to unofficially take on PM-type responsibilities in your current role. And then they either realize you're good at it and make it official, or you interview for an official PM job somewhere else and explain that while it wasn't your official title, it's what you were effectively doing.
I'm hoping to retire again. And then I'll just work on something like a video game where I don't need to hire anyone else (outside of contractors for art).
What I've learned over the years is that you should never chase prestige and the opinion of others. I did that for too long. What you should chase is getting money by the fastest means possible, even if its something with no title or career prospects, if you can buy your freedom from the wage wheel. If you can jump off the wage wheel then you can do your own projects with freedom. And freedom to set my own calendar is the only thing that matters to me anymore.
Do a thorough think of how much money you really need. And convince yourself that a dollar more isn't worth any amount of extra effort.
For most people it took a 3-5 years in school or lower level jobs to get good enough to crack into the fruits a high earning software engineering career. If you were young when this happened, you didn't even notice those years go by. Now you're older, but the same rules apply. They just feel different and usually unmotivating. You may need to spend a few years at the bottom again to make some progress down a different skill tree.
When you're winning for so long, it's hard to imagine eating shit for years just to make bread again elsewhere. Harness some excitement around that and commit fully, or realize that you have a pretty great life and find a way to stay cozy in tech (like divorcing your identity from your job).
edit: also if you've only been in big tech, then get out. it's so much more fun elsewhere.
It is a strange prison for sure.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_writing
First question will be what do you enjoy and how can you do more of that? Or enjoyment aside, what is it you would like to achieve.
Difficult, I know.
Work on that. First thing is to kick your line manager's ass.
I then discovered that I do like programming. I just don’t want to do it with anyone else.