Show HN: Brisk – Cross-Platform C++ GUI Framework: Declarative, Reactive, Fast (github.com)
Brisk is an open-source C++ GUI framework with a declarative approach, offering powerful data bindings, GPU-accelerated graphics, and dynamic widget management. It supports macOS, Linux, Windows, and simplifies UI creation with modern paradigms and CSS-like layouts.
Initially developed for a graphics-intensive project with a complex and dynamic GUI, the framework is currently under active development.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 160 ms ] threadUnfortunately there is no public information on the pricing.
You should be able to make it work with a value-based interface and allocating behind the scenes (this would also enable a few optimization opportunities).
An alternative approach is to use the rcnew macro, which wraps a pointer in a shared_ptr under the hood. Details on the implementation of rcnew can be found at: https://www.kfr.dev/blog/three-cpp-tricks/
This seems like someone who isn't up to date with the most elegant and fastest ways to write C++. Charging money on top of that is egregious, not to mention that there are lots of great GUI libraries already. FLTK, Juce, Qt to name a few.
This technique is utilized in modern frameworks like Jetpack Compose, Flutter and SwiftUI and unlocks several powerful features, such as flexible data binding and the ability to rebuild the widget tree on demand, features that would be quite difficult to implement in other libraries.
If the underlying model is tree, then any graph based configuration data could be used to build it.
I mean underneath it could be implemented using the api as is, but as a C++ dev I don’t see any compelling reason to be interested in this.
You can do the most astounding things nowadays in 100fps. I’m not sure if manually handcrafting object initialization trees to a ui framework is something I want to do as a developer in 2024.
This is not intended as a put-down! This must have been enormous amount of work.
I would love to hear the rationale for why exposing the user API as a class structure like this - I’m sure there are good reasons and would love to hear them.
Also, I wasn't able to readily find any information about keybindings for the widgets, e.g. the way some frameworks use "&Monday" to make alt-m act on that checkbox https://github.com/brisklib/brisk/blob/v0.9.3/examples/showc...
I did see your "unhandled" event handler doing its own keybinding dispatch <https://github.com/brisklib/brisk/blob/v0.9.3/examples/calc/...> but I hope that's not the normal way to do keybinding
The data binding looks particularly clever. That's usually the Achilles heel of GUI toolkits (for me at least) and that looks like a clever and novel solution if it works.
Though unfortunately since it's not lGPL or MIT, it doesn't look like I could use it anyways.
Why not. They also intend to have a commercial license. Don't event want to consider paying?
I find that for any non-trivial application this type of boilerplate is best done with good tooling that just works and lets the UI to be knocked up fast and efficiently.
I also wrote an UI system for my game engine but it's completely drag & drop in the editor. Styling (skinning) is also via UI builder.
Source:
https://github.com/ensisoft/detonator/tree/master/uikit
Live demo:
https://ensisoft.com/demos/ui/game.html
Question, how do you handle arbitrary clipping masks ? In my solution clipping masks require evaluating all the widget parent's clipping rects and writing them to stencil buffer before rendering the current widget. This is unfortunately quite slow...
But then it's not trivial to write responsive/adaptive applications. In contrast, QML makes it extremely easy to build such apps.
I used to build UIs in the designer as well[1] but after studying QML there's no going back. Here's a new project I program solely in QML (and C++ for the logic)[2].
[1] https://github.com/nuttyartist/notes
[2] https://www.get-vox.com/
"But then it's not trivial to write responsive/adaptive applications."
Personally I prefer the widgets over QML mostly because QML is just too poorly typed and checked + you normally need to do a bunch of integration work between the QML and the C++ code. I do see the appeal though.
QML is definitely getting better in regard to type checking. For example, you can annotate a list with a type:
property list<int> myNumbers: [1, 2, 3]
You can annotate a signal with the expected types:
signal onThisChange(x: int, str : string)
Etc.
You can also ENABLE_TYPE_COMPILER[1][2] to convert QML files to C++ which require you to type your code in order to work, but I don't really have experience with that.
I'm sure there are even more examples I'm missing. There was a discussion regarding TypeScript support in QML[3] but I guess they decided to do it their own way[4].
[1] https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qtqml-qml-type-compiler.html
[2] https://www.qt.io/blog/compiling-qml-to-c-qtquick-controls-a...
[3] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-63600
[4] https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-68791
Just seems absurd.
EDIT: Also, how is this different from any other cross-platform API like POSIX, sockets, TCP, etc?
Would you also question why builders have to make bathrooms wheelchair accessible in public buildings? It costs more and can be uglier and restricts the potential designs. Why shouldn’t the wheelchair builders have to make fancier wheelchairs that can navigate the spaces you want to build, right?
I'm not arguing GUI toolkit devs shouldn't implement accessibility support. It's a laudable thing to do. I'm pushing back against the meme that the responsibility lies primarily with them.
> Because it’s the right thing to do and it’s usually not particularly onerous
Have you implemented cross-platform accessibility support for a GUI toolkit?
> Accessibility accommodations usually make the software better for everyone.
Accessibility support bloats software. The most trivial example is websites. If you add full accessibility support to a website, it will be bigger, and therefore objectively worse for any user not taking advantage of the accessibility features. The extra bytes also add up over trillions of requests to have an environmental impact.
I think we should be exploring alternative approaches like hand-tuned accessibility-focused apps.
> Would you also question why builders have to make bathrooms wheelchair accessible in public buildings? It costs more and can be uglier and restricts the potential designs.
Strawman. Bathrooms exist in a physical space. Only one implementation can occupy that space, and disabled people have little choice but to interact with the implementations near them. Software distributed over the internet has no such constraints, and different products can compete on accessibility features.
Also, ramps are beneficial to almost everyone at various times. Most people will never use a screen reader.
> Why shouldn’t the wheelchair builders have to make fancier wheelchairs that can navigate the spaces you want to build, right?
Physical accessibility laws were created before modern electric wheelchairs. It might indeed make more sense to regulate (or subsidize) this at the wheelchair level. Do you think most wheelchair users would prefer ramps everywhere, or a wheelchair capable of going up stairs[1]?
As mentioned[2] by your sibling, accessibility advocates and ADA regulations push for "Full & Equal Enjoyment". That doesn't sound like being forced to use ramps to me.
[0]: https://github.com/AccessKit/accesskit
[1]: https://youtu.be/hxf-fIubkMs?si=Cya66U7KQBpvLU-R
[2]: https://www.accessibility.works/blog/alternate-separate-acce...
Because they don’t want to release software that targets a lowest common denominator. If you don’t care about this stuff, just use Electron or some other library that lets you move fast and make mediocre software that feels foreign on every OS.
Each operating system is different in lots of different ways and if you want to make the best app on each platform, you embrace that. For example, many apps have some number of settings. On Windows you will probably put those in a Preferences or Settings dialog in the app. On iOS, some of those belong in the settings panel. Great apps aren’t going to pave over these differences.
Same goes for accessibility APIs. There’s all kinds of assistive devices (both hardware and software) already in widespread use. They have different expectations on every platform. Follow the conventions laid out by each platform maker and your software should just work. It’s the same as handling keyboard and mouse support. Each OS has different APIs.
Does that mean people who write cross-platform libraries have to do more work? Well yes it does, but then creating an abstraction over each platform is what they set out to do in the first place. It’s an important part of the job.
POSIX is a good example of a lowest common denominator that is "good enough" for many kinds of programs, but not consumer software applications with GUIs. That common denominator is the kind of cross-platform GUI toolkit/framework that we're talking about. a11y is a feature of that, not of something like POSIX. And no OS vendor is going to try and create such a standard, or if one is created they won't try and follow it - because anything that makes applications better on other platforms makes their platform worth less.
AccessKit is a really laudable effort to decouple the a11y API from the UI. It would be great if many GUI toolkits adopted it, but it does affect their design in non trivial ways.
Summed up: what you're asking is "why don't Apple and Microsoft make it easier for developers to make software developed on Apple platforms better on Microsoft or vice versa" and the answer should be self evident. These APIs exist to create value for the platform, not for other platforms. Standards don't exist for portability, they exist to create lock-in and entrench existing players.
No, what I'm asking is why the responsibility is always put on GUI toolkit developers. If a good cross platform a11y API is possible, the moral obligation is on the OS vendors to create it and support it. If it's not possible, then why do we treat GUI toolkit devs not only as if it is, but it's somehow their job to re-implement it for every GUI library?
The obligation is in the developers making cross platform layers, like GUI toolkits. There's no obligation for MS and Apple to agree on an API, but there is an obligation for the software claiming to target both to support both APIs. That's the very nature of making something cross platform!
“Why Alternate “Accessible” Website Versions Fail ADA And May Increase Legal Risk.
[…]
1. DOJ: All public accommodation’s websites must comply.
[…]
2. ADA = "Full & Equal Enjoyment"
[…]
3. Is a "Separate But Equal" approach discriminatory?”
I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think one can draw another conclusion from that than that having a separate app designed for accessibility is a big no-no.
Also, as a developer, you choose a GUI toolkit to make your life easier. Having good accessibility support then is a point in favor of a toolkit, just as, say, having lots of good-looking controls is one.
Possibly even more so, as implementing accessibility support is a huge undertaking. You need to be able to enable high-contrast mode, to set keyboard shortcuts, to use larger fonts, tone down animations, have an on-screen keyboard, etc.
* It's talking about intentionally low quality, minimal-effort ADA compliance. Do you believe most blind people (simple example, there are many types of disabilities) would prefer a version of a tool that has basic (but decent) screen reader support built into a GUI toolkit, to a hand-tuned app built specifically to address their needs?
* Trying to legislate something as subjective as "Full & Equal Enjoyment" is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. I didn't realize the ADA regulations were that bad. By that definition, anyone with a disability can claim anything about a website that they don't like is preventing them from experiencing "Full & Equal Enjoyment".
* Them comparing websites using cheap ADA solutions to the civil rights movement is chef's kiss
> Also, as a developer, you choose a GUI toolkit to make your life easier. Having good accessibility support then is a point in favor of a toolkit, just as, say, having lots of good-looking controls is one.
I fully agree here. Accessibility is important and it's smart for toolkits to compete on such features. That's not what I'm pushing back against. I'm pushing back against the idea that responsibility for accessibility lies predominantly on GUI toolkit developers. There is nothing wrong with making a GUI toolkit that doesn't support accessibility. Accessibility support can be implemented/improved at multiple layers of the stack, but HN loves bringing this up because it's a meme with high virtue signalling value.
I don't care that my approach is harder for the developer, because the thing I care about is consistency and convenience for the user.
I know the thing you built is neat (I've spent quite a few years working on almost the same thing), but I guess this is why I gave up on pushing my own solution
I’m not sure if this is universally applicable dogma. Games generally apply their own UI regardless of platform.
Web apps generally do as well.
I do realize there is space for apps with least surprise per platform, but it’s not obvious to me if an app benefits from platform standard UI any quantifiable way.
App usability and performance typically benefit greatly from using the native platform they’re running on. Plus all the egress savings of not shipping chromium with every download
I know this has always been the design dogma but is there any research to back this up? It's a _plausible_ dogma of course!
To be honest I don't see the distinction between apps and games. I am usually irritated if the software I'm using has different UI on different platforms. I realize it's possible most users don't use three or four operating systems daily.
"Plus all the egress savings of not shipping chromium with every download"
I'm not sure what this refers to. Creating a custom UI does not require embedding a browser runtime - it's the most silly thing to do IMO.
Why would someone use C++ and not Rust in 2024? Familiarity and experience?
I dabbled in 3D for a while too and was astonished how much 2D stuff there is for it.
Yes. Nowadays all modern desktop interfaces—Aero/Metro/WinUI2/3 on Windows, Aqua/Cocoa on macOS, KDE, GNOME, XFCE, LXDE, and even some window managers on Linux—are 'GPU-accelerated'.
Every window is a quad of two triangles. There's no real vertex shading since it's all orthographic as you mentioned. The framebuffer for each window is exactly the x:y resolution for that window (macOS does some interesting 1:2 resizing here sometimes). The 'fragment shaders' is where the GUI toolkit comes in, writes to these buffers, and does any decorating where needed.
The final framebuffer is exactly the resolution of the entire monitor (again, macOS may do some weird 1:2 resizing).
The framebuffers of all windows on-screen are composed into this one. This is where things like transparency effects, the window and scroll controls, drop shadows, any 'rounding off' masks (used to great extent in macOS), and funky 'frosted glass'/'reflection' effects come in. This gives the effect of windows behind/in front of other windows. This is also when partially/fully off-screen windows are clipped/culled against the viewport frustum (not really a frustum but more a cuboid since it's not a perspective).
Once all this is done, you have a frame that's ready to be piped down the display cable into the display.
There are some other facets muddying the water like HDCP DRM protection for the entire framebuffer or some window framebuffers, variable-rate refresh, and so on. The former is how PrintScreen on Windows returns a black screen for some windows—that's HDCP in action.
For a simple example, think of a rounded rect. Typically this would draw as a quad (a pair of triangles), and a shader would calculate the rounded corners.
There's also a lot of compositing and clipping that happens in a UI (e.g. a large widget inside a scrollbox) which is challenging to do on GPU as these get nested.
For text rendering, Brisk uses FreeType to render glyphs on the CPU and caches these glyphs in a GPU-accessible texture, which is reused for improved performance. This approach is common among GUI toolkits for handling graphics and fonts.
In addition to this, Brisk employs SDF (signed distance field) graphics wherever possible, which are entirely computed in shaders.
[1] https://slint.dev
I'd rather build the HTML myself.
[1]: https://dash.plotly.com/
I could die a happy man never imperatively constructing nested QBoxLayouts again.
The powerful approach used by Delphi for this is something I have never seen any other language use - where you could create your own components and these components could persist their properties into this external file used for storing the details about the form. So when the IDE loads the design from the external file, it would call the components to read the properties from the file to repopulate itself. This allowed for very powerful and deep components to be developed in Delphi