It seems doubtful that the tax credit will help. I think these things just have a really bad reputation and people don't want to be laughed at for spending $80K on one. (not to mention the CEO's bad reputation)
Maybe details will come out in future years my and many other people's best guess is that they never really expected to sell all that money and sales are basically the public subsidizing R&D
So some of the design features you get are optimization for low volume sales (e.g. the body shapes and heavy re-use of Model 3 assemblies/components). Some of it is trying new things so they can learn how to not suck at them (think Plymouth Prowler but for a different set of skills).
I assume the eccentricities like the light bar, the actual shape of the vehicle and other stuff are a result of designers leaning into or embracing constraints imposed by the above.
Of course none of this is gonna win you buyers hence the tight lips even before Elon's politics became a subject of scrutiny.
It's certainly an unconventional design. I have mixed feelings about it from that aspect.
I think the main thing is they launched a $100k truck when the initial hype was for a $40k truck. It also doesn't help that electric vehicle sales seem to be in the gutter for all US automakers.
I think it was interesting 5 years ago when it was announced for $40k and I kinda wanted one. 5 years later, I hear it's fun to drive. But at $100k, I'm not really interested. The style isn't holding up, and it needs a refresh.
I would be much more interested in a hybrid with 200 mile battery capacity and a 18 gallon gas tank.
Not that surprising. The design you either love or hate, its one of those designs that will forever be remembered. Along with that, the price tag was pretty steep for what I saw as little to no innovation. If they had delivered on the promised range it would have been different.
I think in general the term innovation is perceived as something new that results in a meaningful improvement. Change for the sake of change that brings no real benefits fails to pass this bar.
For example, if someone released a new car model with exterior made of wood, it'd generate a lot of buzz, but unlikely to be considered an innovation.
A lot of Cybertruck features fall into this category of being novel, but not necessarily innovative.
At every earnings call including the most recent one Tesla keeps saying "Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025." Note the plural on "affordable models". So that is what will make or break their sales growth for the next few years. Progress on FSD may also contribute if it continues to accelerate the way it did in the last 6 months with v12 and v13. Cybertruck will not be material.
Tesla usually announces models and ships them years later, so there’s no history to back the start of production of new models in the first half of 2025, regardless of what they say
That's not true. The Model 3 refresh was not announced until after it shipped.
Tesla announces non-competitive new models way in advance. The cybercab and cybervan announcements do not compete with existing models and thus could be announced years in advance.
However, Tesla is well aware of the Osbourne phenomenon. Announcing a $25,000 car would destroy sales of 3, so they haven't done so.
This is true. But it would make sense to do it differently this time. On the other hand I would expect more leaks if they really were close to production. They did keep the Cybercab under wraps pretty well even after making 20 of them. But it's not going into volume production soon.
I ordered one, but it's dramatically more expensive (50% more?) than what I signed up for. Either Tesla cant make them for less, or they are milking their pricing cascade strategy a little further. Until we see parking lots full of unsold inventory, we can reasonably assume it's still production constrained.
There were some recalls I believe that prevented them from handing over to customers at a few points in the last year. Currently the only inventory available in the markets I just checked only have 5-10 of the $100k Foundation series as available.
Also curious to know if those lots are still storing trucks. A dozen trucks stored in a lot doesnt really mean much, look at any ford or chevy dealership.
Interested to know: Was there any specific reason you were interested in getting one?
I know it's kind of either love or hate with Tesla/Cybertruck online - I try and stay out of it. I just never quite understood the appeal; I saw it kind of as a "luxury pickup truck" that's electric, but I figured that if I had wanted to go that route (I didn't end up getting anything), I would get a better bang-for-the-buck with a established pickup truck like Ford or Ram or whatever.
Did it just come down to looks, or was there something else to it?
If it was “luxury” pickup truck it should have been an entirely different design. Barely usable as a pickup truck, interior looks and feels like trash and it rusts in under a year without an additional exterior coating for thousands of more dollars - the coating should have been included. Big grift.
I dont think stainless steel rusts? wasn't the 'rust' just magnetically attracted dust?
I have not been in the cybertruck interior but assume it's very similar to my Y, which I love. I've owned Lexus LX's for years and also have a 2023 Yukon XL Denali. Tesla interior aesthetic is definitely minimalist and lower cost feeling, but it is more than sufficient. Personally, I don't love huge "burled walnut ;)" plastic panels and excessively large, contrasted double stitching.
"Barely useable as a truck" not sure what you mean, definitely not a good long hauler but it will definitely tow and it has a bed.
To call it grift, people know what they're getting when they purchase it, no?
There are multiple grades of stainless steel, which have different proportions of metals in the alloy. The stainless steel used in the cybertruck's body panels appears to be 301 grade, which is not among the best in rust resistance, and can indeed rust depending on environmental conditions.
Given that 301 stainless is cheaper than 304 or 316, which have similar mechanical properties while having better rust resistance, I would guess that material costs resulted in choosing 301 for the cybertruck.
My metallurgy is a bit rusty (sorry), so take this with a grain of salt (which 301 does not resist well, incidentally!).
I think the looks are outrageous but I love it because it is so wild. It is admittedly ugly in a traditional car design sense. I do think it's funny how polarized people are on car design.
I've driven a Tesla Y for 3 years, it's been fantastic. I'd love a larger version but I think the X is a dated frame.
To add one more thought- im not marrying it for life. It’s just going to drive me around for 2-5 years. If I hate it, I can sell. Why not play with a unique design
I also had a reservation for one - at the $40K price. The product as released is specced lower, costs more than double, and has no shortage of major design flaws resulting in bricked vehicles.
I obviously cancelled my order.
I'm just amazed Tesla can continue to pull off this con.
It was always clear that the car's cost and divisive looks were always going to hold it back to a niche item. But I think the problem is bigger than that.
You could always forgive Tesla's shortcomings when they owned the market. When the Tesla Model S dropped, it invented the product category. When the Model 3 dropped, it was it's category leader. The Cybertruck was so late to the game that it's not even a competitive option in the electric pickup truck market.
Theoretically they could mess with their tooling to create a model with a more traditional/less expensive body and try to compete with the much cheaper Rivian.
Musk fairly recently "switched sides" to be republican, presumably trying to pick up a new truck-centric user base in the US south.
Unfortunately, these figures show it backfired badly. He has alienated his mostly left-leaning fanbase, whilst seemingly failing to drum up any new buyers from the new crowd.
Once you get high up in the market signaling starts to matter a lot.
A lot of people have a Toyota Tacoma and a commuter sedan in their driveway because they didn't like the image of daily driving an F150 despite the latter yielding comparable results for less hassle (and probably less money).
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[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 94.0 ms ] threadSo some of the design features you get are optimization for low volume sales (e.g. the body shapes and heavy re-use of Model 3 assemblies/components). Some of it is trying new things so they can learn how to not suck at them (think Plymouth Prowler but for a different set of skills).
I assume the eccentricities like the light bar, the actual shape of the vehicle and other stuff are a result of designers leaning into or embracing constraints imposed by the above.
Of course none of this is gonna win you buyers hence the tight lips even before Elon's politics became a subject of scrutiny.
I think the main thing is they launched a $100k truck when the initial hype was for a $40k truck. It also doesn't help that electric vehicle sales seem to be in the gutter for all US automakers.
I would be much more interested in a hybrid with 200 mile battery capacity and a 18 gallon gas tank.
* Steer by wire
* FSD
> little to no innovation
Amazing! How does it compare to another innovators like Rivian?
For example, if someone released a new car model with exterior made of wood, it'd generate a lot of buzz, but unlikely to be considered an innovation.
A lot of Cybertruck features fall into this category of being novel, but not necessarily innovative.
People are not buying it for the steer by wire or steel body and I would hardly call those real innovations that make it worth purchasing.
I say this as someone who daily drives a Y and had a preorder for the truck.
"To be frank, there is always some chance that Cybertruck will flop, because it is so unlike anything else.
I don’t care. I love it so much even if others don’t."
He never said anything similar about Tesla's other products.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1415733231589097472
At every earnings call including the most recent one Tesla keeps saying "Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025." Note the plural on "affordable models". So that is what will make or break their sales growth for the next few years. Progress on FSD may also contribute if it continues to accelerate the way it did in the last 6 months with v12 and v13. Cybertruck will not be material.
Tesla announces non-competitive new models way in advance. The cybercab and cybervan announcements do not compete with existing models and thus could be announced years in advance.
However, Tesla is well aware of the Osbourne phenomenon. Announcing a $25,000 car would destroy sales of 3, so they haven't done so.
And they announced the Cybercab at $25k, potentially eating into the Model 3
They’re not just dropping a $25k Model 2 this year
The Model 3 refresh and the upcoming Model Y refresh got leaked a year out, there’s just no leaks for a Model 2 whatsoever.
Is there any evidence he's ever driven (or even ridden in) a production unit?
Also curious to know if those lots are still storing trucks. A dozen trucks stored in a lot doesnt really mean much, look at any ford or chevy dealership.
I know it's kind of either love or hate with Tesla/Cybertruck online - I try and stay out of it. I just never quite understood the appeal; I saw it kind of as a "luxury pickup truck" that's electric, but I figured that if I had wanted to go that route (I didn't end up getting anything), I would get a better bang-for-the-buck with a established pickup truck like Ford or Ram or whatever.
Did it just come down to looks, or was there something else to it?
I have not been in the cybertruck interior but assume it's very similar to my Y, which I love. I've owned Lexus LX's for years and also have a 2023 Yukon XL Denali. Tesla interior aesthetic is definitely minimalist and lower cost feeling, but it is more than sufficient. Personally, I don't love huge "burled walnut ;)" plastic panels and excessively large, contrasted double stitching.
"Barely useable as a truck" not sure what you mean, definitely not a good long hauler but it will definitely tow and it has a bed.
To call it grift, people know what they're getting when they purchase it, no?
Given that 301 stainless is cheaper than 304 or 316, which have similar mechanical properties while having better rust resistance, I would guess that material costs resulted in choosing 301 for the cybertruck.
My metallurgy is a bit rusty (sorry), so take this with a grain of salt (which 301 does not resist well, incidentally!).
I've driven a Tesla Y for 3 years, it's been fantastic. I'd love a larger version but I think the X is a dated frame.
I obviously cancelled my order.
I'm just amazed Tesla can continue to pull off this con.
Being one who drives early model is definitely not for me, but if you jump in later and it's incredible value for money.
You could always forgive Tesla's shortcomings when they owned the market. When the Tesla Model S dropped, it invented the product category. When the Model 3 dropped, it was it's category leader. The Cybertruck was so late to the game that it's not even a competitive option in the electric pickup truck market.
Theoretically they could mess with their tooling to create a model with a more traditional/less expensive body and try to compete with the much cheaper Rivian.
Unfortunately, these figures show it backfired badly. He has alienated his mostly left-leaning fanbase, whilst seemingly failing to drum up any new buyers from the new crowd.
A lot of people have a Toyota Tacoma and a commuter sedan in their driveway because they didn't like the image of daily driving an F150 despite the latter yielding comparable results for less hassle (and probably less money).
This just sounds so alien to me, does anybody really care that much?
Musk is an exception.