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Ask HN: How can I learn to better command people's attention when speaking?

83 points by somethingsimple ↗ HN
I've noticed over the years that whenever I'm in group conversations in a social setting, people in general don't pay too much attention to what I say. For example, let's say the group is talking about travel and someone says something I find relatable e.g. someone mentions a place I've been to and really liked. When I try to contribute to the conversation, people just don't seem interested, and typically the conversation moves on as if I hadn't said anything. If I try to speak for a longer time (continuing with the travel example, let's say I try to talk about a particular attraction I enjoyed visiting at that location), I'm usually interrupted, and the focus shifts to whoever interrupted me.

This has happened (and still happens often) a lot, in different social circles, with people of diverse backgrounds. So, I figure it's not that I hang out with rude people, the problem must be me. I think the saddest part of all this is that even my wife's attention drifts off most of the time I try to talk to her.

I know it's not a language barrier issue, and I know for sure I enunciate my words well. I wonder though if the issue may be that I have a weak voice, or just an overall weak presence/body language. How can that be improved, if that's the case?

97 comments

[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 135 ms ] thread
turtleyacht
Do your own thing. Attention is a resource, and people love listeners. You're a "slot" in their social circle for something, but it's a mystery. I don't think it's worth figuring out.

If someone is genuinely interested in what you have to say, they will actively seek and ask, right? They would include you in the conversation.

Sorry if it's not much help. Trust your intuition, and forgive yourself. Time sorts things out.

not_your_vase
I can't give concrete advice, but I can give one example, when do I ignore people joining a conversation like this: when their contribution is only tangentially related, and kind of hijacks the original topic for no good reason.

E.g. I'm having a conversation with a hw engineer: (all imaginary below, but the main situation does happen every once in a while)

  > Me: This USB hub you designed seems to work on my Dell Desktop, but not on my HP laptop. Can you take a look at it?
  > HW Eng: Sure. But could it be a problem with the laptop? Maybe it's not my design's fault.
  > Me: Come on, it's an off the shelf laptop. We can't write in the user manual that users shouldn't use HP laptops, haha.
  > Hw Eng: Haha, okay, let me check it.
  > Random guy: Haha, I just sent my Asus tablet for warranty repair, you shouldn't buy Asus.
I mean, what should one say to this, if anything? I don't know if this is your case also. It's just one situation when this can happen.
bastiengiraud
Thanks for your illustration. I recognize myself in it and you made me realize that I am often making links between things unrelated to the conversation.
gjvc
that is what i would call a "micro-frustration" :-)
brudgers
People don't want their attention commanded.

They want other people's attention.

If you want people to care about what you say, say things they care about...say things that show you care about what they have to say.

Because if what comes out of your mouth suggests you were just waiting for an opening to talk about yourself, people will tune out...unless of course they give you what you want.

Be fun to talk to. The more fun you are to talk to the more you will enjoy conversations. Good luck.

malfist
This is exactly it. Don't view conversations as a zero sum game where you come out in top.

Talk with the person, talk to the person. Don't talk at the other person.

Aachen
The first line was also my thought when seeing this question. Sounds like aiming to be manipulative?

But then I guess the post's contents are rather asking how to have an actual conversation with anyone, including your life partner! Which seems so weird that I doubt we can play therapist over the internet to a useful enough degree and the better solution is to ask $wife (and the friends OP is talking about in 1:1 private conversation) what the thing is OP does that makes them uninterested

I know someone who has trouble with this as well (saying things that seem irrelevant to the conversation, but if you wait and let them speak, it'll become clear... but people don't), but the question they ask is not how to command people but how find people that fit you and/or how to fit in with other people, which very much depends on the individual situation and takes lots of conversation to untangle

brudgers
The language of the OP suggests how they think about conversational mechanisms and their understanding of other people in the context of casual conversation.
philomath_mn
Agreed. I am rarely tracking my what I am saying vs other people. I also focus on paying attention to what people are saying and trying to engage and ask good questions. I rarely volunteer my own stories / thoughts unless they are directly asked for or I have a very strong sense that people want to hear it.
another2another
So it's like the Dad in American Pie said: "Interested... is interesting!"

But Stifler is still the character I remember the most.

itake
> When I try to contribute to the conversation, people just don't seem interested, and typically the conversation moves on as if I hadn't said anything.

There is lot unsaid here, so its really difficult to know exactly what your issue is.

This might be low brow, but could you potentially record yourself and play it back? Maybe looking over your own shoulder, you can see things you missed in the moment.

slau
It’s also important to view a group conversation as a bonfire. You have to contribute to it and help it grow.

If you’re not saying anything that others can jump off from… then you can’t expect them to. Use a question sandwich: someone is talking about a place you’ve visited. You can then interject with “Oh you’ve been to Taipei? The hike to Elephant Mountain was incredible! What was your favourite part of the city?”

You don’t use the word “I”, and you pass the ball back to whomever was speaking. You brought fuel to the bonfire. You stoked it. If anyone concurs they’ll let the group know. If anyone else wants to jump in you’ve given them an opening. And the person you interrupted can either use your interjection to add to their story or they can keep going, but you didn’t prevent them from telling the story.

If instead you just say “Oh I’ve been to Taipei too” or “I really don’t like that show”, now you’ve put the burden of maintaining the bonfire on the person you interrupted. They have to now ask when, how long, did you like it, why not, etc.

I’m not saying OP was making these mistakes, but I’ve noticed these kind of patterns often. People love to talk, especially about themselves. Let them.

patrickdavey
If you haven't read it have a read of "how to win friends and influence people". Sounds like a book about tricking people to like you, but, really it's just a manual of tips you can use. I'd echo the other comments: if you want people to enjoy interacting with you, just ask them lots of questions and be genuinely interested in what _they_ have to say, _not_ what you can add to the conversation... that'll come with time.

Good luck :)

namaria
Things that have worked for me: modulate voice tone - lots of people tend to strive for a monotone voice for some reason, and it sounds rather boring and drone like; pyramid principle - start with the main thing and fill out details later, building up to something tends to make people drift off; brevity is the soul of wit - don't emphasize things by rephrasing ideas, don't hammer on points that have been made, don't pile on jokes, keep the conversation moving; pass the ball - don't try to hold the groups attention, be aware of opportunities to add to the conversation and let it keep flowing away from you often.

> someone says something I find relatable

That's a key point. You're seeing things you find interesting as opportunities to add to the conversation. Flip this around, try to look for things that others would find interesting.

shinycode
Good advice. What you say, how to say it, how much you say. Eye contact
LouisSayers
Good point - it works well in a group setting to look around and make eye contact as you speak. It makes others feel included in the conversation.
7bit
> That's a key point. You're seeing things you find interesting as opportunities to add to the conversation. Flip this around, try to look for things that others would find interesting.

Hard disagree. Don't try to be someone you are not. The most interesting TED talks are not held because the speaker found a topic you are interested in. They exist because the speaker has a fascination about something that he explored and now talks about. Often this fascination is infectious and because the speaker has a way of explaining it, and talking that catches your attention. This would probably not interest you as much, if the speaker would not find it interesting.

Talk about things you like, not what you think other people like. If your friends are bored by that, then it's perhaps time to find friends that aren't.

namaria
I understand what you're saying but I never advised anyone to change personalities and group conversations are not TED talks.

I merely pointed out something that helped me: instead of sharing tidbits that amount to "I find this relatable because...", I realized that when I came from a place more like "You all might find this interesting because..." people responded better.

mondocat
The most interesting TED talks (to you) are also presumably on topics that you’ve selected to watch. In random conversation, you may need to Taylor your responses to the situation. The idea that friends are the people who exclusively share topics of interest and therefore are infinitely interested in hearing each other speak is not realistic. This is a social skill that (s)he’s trying to develop.
agumonkey
I often have a monotone .. tone but all I get is yawning.
hackable_sand
Agree w what's said here.

Pass the ball if u want the ball. It's a team sport.

Be brief and on point.

Use your emotions.

Listen.

ribadeo
There's a guy in my youtube feed that literally focuses on specifically this aspect of speech.

I see a lot of emphasis on the tone and pacing, the music of your speech.

https://youtube.com/@askvinh

I can't vouch for anything he says but he seems to be recapping essentially common sense points, so i wouldn't reckon he's totally off.

some1else
Talk to people who want to hear what you have to say.
profsummergig
Speak less.

For practice: for a year, don't say a word.

suyash
Where are you located and what's your ethnicity? I'm generalising this that in the United States unless you're loud mouth you'd be ignored, in Japan on the other hand total opposite.
intellectronica
It's possible that you have unrealistic expectations regarding the depth and length of attention anyone, yourself included, can get from a group. We tend to observe and critique ourselves disproportionally and not pay attention to the experience of others - what opportunities they have to participate, how much attention they really get, etc...

Try to observe how groups interact - unless someone is exceptionally important (leader, famous or very charismatic person) people just chatter in short chunks, exchanging low stakes, often meaningless, remarks, as well as lots of laughs, little jokes, noises like ehrm, oooh, uhm, without anyone getting much of an opportunity to convey anything significant. That's just how group interaction works on average.

If you lower your expectations and focus on just maintaining a fun and positive interaction with the group, you'll be less frustrated, more confident, and maybe you'll also find it easier to get a message across in the rare case where it's really worth it.

If consistently having meaningful information-dense interactions is very important to you, you may want to focus on finding groups that prioritize this sort of interaction. They are really quite rare, but look for meetups of like-minded people who want to have a deep discussion of a specific topic, for example.

shellfishgene
First you need to find out if the problem is in the delivery, like voice, emotion or body language, or the actual content. There are people who have difficulty contributing things that have a point, or say things that "don't go anywhere".

This will be hard to find out on your own or asking online. Find a friend and try to get them to talk to you about this, this can be difficult, but if you try to make clear in a one on one conversation that you're suffering from this and you need their honest opinion, it would probably help.

AndyMcConachie
Ask this question to a friend in your social circles where this is happening. Have you talked about this with your wife?
UnreachableCode
Acting classes or singing lessons? I think you just want to get confidence in having people's attention, through modulating like the other guy said, and being interesting to listen to. But try not to worry about this too much, I feel like it will make you feel insecure if you focus on it for too long.

Another great thing for me is to shift the focus on to the person you're speaking with, even in a group. People love to talk about themselves. Ask them honest, thoughtful questions about what they're talking about. Don't over indulge them, but everyone is equal in this world, and hearing them out on things leads to a healthy discourse.

One final tip and this is important, if they talk about a trip to the Bahamas or whatever and you then feel the urge to bring up your similar trip to the Bahamas, maybe don't. Instead of hearing their point of view, you're making the conversation about you immediately and people don't like that. You can hold that thought and bring it up later in the conversation, organically.

eXpl0it3r
> Instead of hearing their point of view, you're making the conversation about you immediately and people don't like that.

This!

If you've been to the Bahamas and know a cool place, you can for example just ask "oh have you been to place X?", which implies that you've been there and know a cool thing, plays the ball back to the person telling the story, but still leaves the door open for them to hand the conversation to you (e.g. "what's place X?", "where is X located?", "when were you on the Bahamas?", etc.).

hansc
Also similar: Join a local Toastmasters group. This is a global organization where you learn and practice to speak in front of a group, both prepared speeches and spontaneous. It may find weird to join it, but I would advice to visit one once in your neighborhood: They are all super friendly and I have seen dozens of people come in and move from shy and awkward to great storytellers in just a year or so.
gjvc
"what you are speaks so loudly i cannot hear what you say" -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
simmschi
I know exactly what you're talking about and have been in similar situations many times. For me it's not just limited to speech, but lots of other aspects. Sometimes it feels like being a ghost or some weird Star Trek like phase shift. E.g. one person walks out of a board game night to get some food, everyone stops playing to wait for the person. I walk out, things just continue.

What helped me a lot were 2 things:

1) There are ways to improve your conversation skills. Big topic, with lots of branches. Your speech matters. Your tone. Keep collecting interesting anecdotes. Culture some depth to your personality that is unrelated to work (e.g. interesting hobbies). Essentially train your charisma.

2) The big eye opener for me was the discovery that different groups of people actually react differently to me. I.e. I was simply friends with people who ... didn't care as much about me as I cared about them. The blunt fix here is to change your social circles. Not easy, but doable, slowly, over time.

The "interesting hobby" part of the charisma training actually helps there to connect to different groups of people.

wruza
The big eye opener for me was the discovery that different groups of people actually react differently to me. I.e. I was simply friends with people who ... didn't care as much about me as I cared about them

I second this. Make sure you’re in the right “layer” because this mismatch can induce the described avoidance/insignificance. And even if you want to stay there (which is absolutely fine) don’t take it as a global thing. Different groups may value completely different behavior patterns.

GoToRO
Most people don't want deep conversations. They might listen more but you have to deliver the info piece by piece: I've been there (and then nothing) How was it? Pretty good (and the nothing) ... then they might ask more info about what they care (the weather, the bars, the museums)
asimpletune
It’s a an excellent question! I don’t think there’s a specific answer just for you, but there are some important universal themes.

Try asking people questions and show interest and concern for their well-being. Observe other group’s rituals and pay respect to their customs. Then to capture people’s attention speak in terms of stories that they know, but switch up a few details, to make the conclusion refreshing and exciting.

heeton
It's pretty much impossible to say without observing you. This isn't a technical question that can be answered over text (as much as everyone here will try).

Ask this question to some people you trust and simulate a conversation _in person_ to get feedback.

Contact me (bio) and I'll have a 10 minute call with you if you'd like.

stocknoob
OP, listen to this. You may be giving lots of nonverbal signals. It’s not necessarily a simple conversation hack that can be described in text.
LouisSayers
It's hard to say unless you had a recording of yourself in a conversation to listen to / watch why exactly you're getting this response.

As others have mentioned: tone, pacing, modulation, content ... these could all contribute, but I don't think you'd be able to know unless you really analysed a video or audio recording with someone.

Here's a few things that may help:

  1) Get a voice coach and do a few lessons
  2) Join an acting class
  3) Take a clip from a movie and re-enact it. Record yourself and play it back to see the difference, you might pick up a few things.
Also, as others have mentioned it might be worth not paying as much emphasis on speaking, but focus more on listening, reflecting and asking questions. People like others that are intrigued by and like them!
baobabKoodaa
Some people in the comments are implying that the problem is related to what you say as opposed to how you say it. For example, "talk about things other people find interesting". I feel strongly that this focus is incorrect. The problem is almost certainly how you talk.

When I think back to all the socialites in my life who've had the gift of commanding peoples' attention, they could talk about the most meaningless things and somehow make it engaging and entertaining. Like a talk show host who can crack a funny joke about any subject. Not saying you have to be a comedian, just saying that holding peoples' attention is more about your demeanor, tonality and vibe - not so much about the contents of what you say.

0xEF
You might be coming off as making it about you.

When we interject with relatable stories, it can often appear to the listener that we are taking what they just said and turning into a narrative about ourselves. Defeating this takes practice, since the good intention is not necessarily to talk about yourself, but to signal that you understand what the speaker is sharing.

The easiest way I have found to avoid this is by asking questions, instead of telling my own story, but basing my questions on my experience. To use your travel example, if someone is telling you a story about a place you have been to, ask them what they thought about a specific attraction you have also visited without mentioning you visited it, giving them the opportunity to continue sharing rather than turning the spotlight on your experience. I that moment, it's about them.

rrr_oh_man
Can you give a more concrete example?