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Ask HN: Is low-level programming dead?

11 points by hobin ↗ HN
...For startups, that is?

To be completely honest, I don't like web programming and most of the higher-level programming at all. I do dislike design, when I build something I want it to look good - I simply prefer working on the deepest levels of a technical problem. The part with grinding gears.

Basically, I'm mostly working on low-level software (assembly and C), and on interesting hardware. With that being said: do you think there is room in the startup world for these kind of projects? The initial investment appears to be higher, manufacturing hardware is a lot more trouble and low-level programming isn't done that much anymore. What do you think?

EDIT: I should note that for something to be interesting to me (a hardware startup), it doesn't even necessarily have to involve much programming.

23 comments

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Piskvorrr
A perfect example of the answer can fit into two words: Raspberry Pi.
hobin
I'm not sure whether that would qualify as a startup. The Raspberry Pi Foundation is, after all, a charity. But, your point still stands, because I have to admit that if they tried to make money from it, they could.
wmf
Do they write any software?
wmf
No, you just have to stop reading Hacker News because they don't know about SolidFire, Calxeda, SeaMicro, Azul, SandForce, Violin, Fusion io, etc.
hobin
Fair enough. I can't promise I'll stop reading HN (I probably won't), but do you have any recommendations for other websites that cover more hardware-based solutions? (I do read Hackaday, but that doesn't exactly count, although it sometimes gives me an interesting idea or two.)
gcmartinelli
at genomicon.com the blogger talks allot about hardware. it's not exactly a 'HW startup' blog, but you might be interested.

edit: blog.makezine.com follows many HW startups also

mindcrime
Launching a new startup that sells hardware is more difficult, due to the increased capital requirements, but I don't see any reason to think that it can't be done, IF you can identify a legitimate need and produce a solution for that need, that creates value for the user. Whether or not you need to write in Assembly I don't know, but if working in C floats your boat, just imagine all the "things" you could build that might - for example - embed an Arduino to solve some problem.

OTOH, if you don't necessarily need to get all the way down to the hardware, but just want to solve hard problems that go beyond doing CRUD webapps, there are all sorts of avenues open to you. AI / machine learning stuff, systems level programming for middleware, VOIP stuff, and gosh-knows-what-else. Just keep your eyes and ears open, think outside the box (yeah, yeah, I know, cliche warning), and keep looking for opportunities.

hobin
Oh, I didn't mean to say that I need to write something in assembly or C per se - I've done some Python programming on an embedded interpreter, too. My point is that I like to stick close to the hardware.

I agree with your other point, though. Although I definitely love working with hardware, I'll still take the avenues you mentioned over developing web-apps any day.

WTPayne
There will always be a need for people who understand the details. Having said that, building demonstrable product quickly is more important in the early days of an enterprise, so developers really need to be able to switch from one to the other; working at a high level of abstraction early on, when you need to move quickly to disrupt and / or capture a market, then move to a lower level of abstraction to optimize and tune the enterprise to make it more efficient within it's niche.
[deleted]
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[dead] losethos
You need the CIA stamp of approval.

They run the www.osdev.org site and tightly control people.

Nobody cares if there are better ways of doing things. They just want absolute police-state control -- moving all source code into the cloud under scrutiny and control.

God says... C:\Text\DARWIN.TXT

sibly. But when we bear in mind that almost every species, even in its metropolis, would increase immensely in numbers, were it not for other competing species; that nearly all either prey on or serve as prey for others; in short, that each organic being is either directly or indirectly related in the most important manner to other organic beings--we see that the range of the inhabitants of any country by no means exclusively depends on insensibly changing physical conditions, but in large part on

----

God says...

pretend Special cheerful Theft well-ordered catching efforts

fredsted
This question is meaningless without (a few) details about the product you are making.
hobin
How so? This question isn't necessarily about whether there is room for me, personally, to make a hardware startup. Rather, I would like to hear people's opinions on whether they think hardware startups aren't a completely stupid idea at all compared to the much more prevalent web startups.
jamesmcn
IT hardware doesn't seem to have a good track record in recent history. Elevation threw a lot of money at Palm, Palm delivered an excellent OS and phone (and finally tablet), and yet they weren't able to achieve the market traction they desired.

On the other hand, everyone I know with money outside of Silicon Valley seems to be investing in LED lighting companies.

hobin
(I found another error in my post, but I can no longer edit it: I don't dislike design. I misread that on proofreading and edited it, silly me.)
carterschonwald
Is it the low level part that you like, or the reasoning about every detail in a precise analytical fashion? Opportunities in both directions abound! Endless endless opportunities for the right combo of capabilities and insightful understanding of market need.
hobin
I'm inclined to say both, but I'm not sure, because working with hardware just so happens to be my area of expertise. On the other hand, my official job is that of a physicist, so you may have a point.
jamesmcn
Why do you prefer a hardware startup to a new hardware project within a large company?
hobin
For the same reasons people build non-hardware startups.
timbo621
No. Low level isnt dead. There are tons of opportunities out there. I would recommend that you create something great and unique based on the PIC Micro or AVR platform. Then pitch the product to a larger company. Have you ever done any environmental monitoring? All datacenters need that kind of stuff and the existing products out there aren't that good.
actionbrandon
trading companies love people like you - and in return for your expertise they'll give you lots of money and give you a look behind the curtain. behind this curtain you will find many problems you can solve for many companies (that are all kind of related) willing to invest absurd amounts of money in solutions.
cjbprime
Look at all of the technology/hardware projects on Kickstarter -- they're startups, right?