Ask HN: Is anyone doing anything cool with tiny language models?

684 points by prettyblocks ↗ HN
I mean anything in the 0.5B-3B range that's available on Ollama (for example). Have you built any cool tooling that uses these models as part of your work flow?

355 comments

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JetBrains' local single-line autocomplete model is 0.1B (w/ 1536-token context, ~170 lines of code): https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/04/04/full-line-code-co...

For context, GPT-2-small is 0.124B params (w/ 1024-token context).

That size is on the edge of something you can train at home
If you have modern hardware, you can absolutely train that at home. Or very affordable on a cloud service.

I’ve seen a number of “DIY GPT-2” tutorials that target this sweet spot. You won’t get amazing results unless you want to leave a personal computer running for a number of hours/days and you have solid data to train on locally, but fine-tuning should be in the realm of normal hobbyists patience.

Hmm is there anything reasonably ready made* for this spot? Training and querying a llm locally on an existing codebase?

* I don't mind compiling it myself but i'd rather not write it.

Not even on the edge. That's something you could train on a 2 GB GPU.

The general guidance I've used is that to train a model, you need an amount of RAM (or VRAM) equal to 8x the number of parameters, so a 0.125B model would need 1 GB of RAM to train.

You can train that size of a model on ~1 billion tokens in ~3 minutes on a rented 8xH100 80GB node (~$9/hr on Lambda Labs, RunPod io, etc.) using the NanoGPT speed run repo: https://github.com/KellerJordan/modded-nanogpt

For that short of a run, you'll spend more time waiting for the node to come up, downloading the dataset, and compiling the model, though.

I wonder how big that model is in RAM/disk. I use LLMs for FFMPEG all the time, and I was thinking about training a model on just the FFMPEG CLI arguments. If it was small enough, it could be a package for FFMPEG. e.g. `ffmpeg llm "Convert this MP4 into the latest royalty-free codecs in an MKV."`
the jetbrains models are about 70MB zipped on disk (one model per language)
That is easily small enough to host as a static SPA web app. I was first thinking it would be cool to make a static web app that would run the model locally. You'd make a query and it'd give the FFMPEG commands.
Please submit a blog post to HN when you're done. I'd be curious to know the most minimal LLM setup needed get consistently sane output for FFMPEG parameters.
That’s a great idea, but I feel like it might be hard to get it to be correct enough
Is that why their tab completion is so bad now?
Hm... I wonder what your use case it. I do the modern Enterprise Java and the tab completion is a major time saver.

While interactive AI is all about posing, meditating on the prompt, then trying to fix the outcome, IntelliJ tab completion... shows what it will complete as you type and you Tab when you are 100% OK with the completion, which surprisingly happens 90..99% of the time for me, depending on the project.

I simply use it to de-anonymize code that I typed in via Claude

Maybe should write a plugin for it (open source):

1. Put in all your work related questions in the plugin, an LLM will make it as an abstract question for you to preview and send it

2. And then get the answer with all the data back

E.g. df[“cookie_company_name”] becomes df[“a”] and back

Could you recommend a tiny language model I could try out locally?
Llama 3.2 has about 3.2b parameters. I have to admit, I use bigger ones like phi-4 (14.7b) and Llama 3.3 (70.6b) but I think Llama 3.2 could do de-anonimization and anonimization of code
+1 this idea. I do the same. Just do it locally using ollama, also using 3.2 3b
Llama 3.2 punches way above its weight. For general "language manipulation" tasks it's good enough - and it can be used on a CPU with acceptable speed.
So you are using a local small model to remove identifying information and make the question generic, which is then sent to a larger model? Is that understanding correct?

I think this would have some additional benefits of not confusing the larger model with facts it doesn't need to know about. My erasing information, you can allow its attention heads to focus on the pieces that matter.

Requires further study.

> So you are using a local small model to remove identifying information and make the question generic, which is then sent to a larger model? Is that understanding correct?

Yep that's it

Are you using the model to create a key-value pair to find/replace and then reverse to reanonymize, or are you using its outputs directly? If the latter, is it fast enough and reliable enough?
You're using it to anonymize your code, not de-anonymize someone's code. I was confused by your comment until I read the replies and realized that's what you meant to say.
I read it the other way, their code contains eg fetch(url, pw:hunter123), and they're asking Claude anonymized questions like "implement handler for fetch(url, {pw:mycleartrxtpw})"

And then claude replies

fetch(url, {pw:mycleartrxtpw}).then(writething)

And then the local llm converts the placeholder mycleartrxtpw into hunter123 using its access to the real code

> Put in all your work related questions in the plugin, an LLM will make it as an abstract question for you to preview and send it

So the LLM does both the anonymization into placeholders and then later the replacing of the placeholders too. Calling the latter step de-anonymization is confusing though, it's "de-anonymizing" yourself to yourself. And the overall purpose of the plugin is to anonymize OP to Claude, so to me at least that makes the whole thing clearer.

I could've been a bit more clear, sorry about that.
It's that yea

Flow would be:

1. Llama prompt: write a console log statement with my username and password: mettamage, superdupersecret

2. Claude prompt (edited by Llama): write a console log statement with my username and password: asdfhjk, sdjkfa

3. Claude replies: console.log('asdfhjk', 'sdjkfa')

4. Llama gets that input and replies to me: console.log('mettamage', 'superdupersecret')

"Comedy Writing With Small Generative Models" by Jamie Brew (Strange Loop 2023)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M2o4f_2L0No

Spend the 45 minutes watching this talk. It is a delight. If you are unsure, wait until the speaker picks up the guitar.

Seconded! This was my favorite talk at Strange Loop (including my own).
Excellent share - nice to see people doing cool things with the tech while not taking themselves too seriously.
No, but I use llama 3.2 1b and qwen2.5 1.5 as bash oneliner generator, always runnimg in console.
Could you elaborate?
I just run llama-cli with the model. Every time I want some "awk" or "find" trickery, I just ask model. Good for throwaway python scripts too.
Can it do 'sed'?

I think one major improvement for folks like me would be human->regex LLM translator, ideally also respecting different flavors/syntax for various languages and tools.

This has been a bane of me - I run into requirement to develop some complex regexes maybe every 2-3 years, so I dig deep into specs, work on it, deliver eventually if its even possible, and within few months almost completely forget all the details and start at almost same place next time. It gets better over time but clearly I will retire earlier than this skill settles in well.

have not tried yet. any specific query? I can try.
What's your workflow like? I use AI Chat. I load Qwen2.5-1.5B-Instruct with llama.cpp server, fully offloaded to the CPU, and then I config AI Chat to connect to the llama.cpp endpoint.
Pretty sure they are mostly used as fine tuning targets, rather than as-is.
But for what purposes?
I am, in a way by using EHR/EMR data for fine tuning so agents can query each other for medical records in a HIPPA compliant manner.
Microsoft published a paper on their FLAME model (60M parameters) for Excel formula repair/completion which outperformed much larger models (>100B parameters).

https://arxiv.org/abs/2301.13779

This is really cool. Is this already in Excel?
This is wild. They claim it was trained exclusively on Excel formulas, but then they mention retrieval? Is it understanding the connection between English and formulas? Or am I misunderstanding retrieval in this context?

Edit: No, the retrieval is Formula-Formula, the model (nor I believe tokenizer) does not handle English.

But I feel we're going back full circle. These small models are not generalist, thus not really LLMs at least in terms of objective. Recently there has been a rise of "specialized" models that provide lots of values, but that's not why we were sold on LLMs.
But that's the thing, I don't need my ML model to be able to write me a sonnet about the history of beets, especially if I want to run it at home for specific tasks like as a programming assistant.

I'm fine with and prefer specialist models in most cases.

I would love a model that knows SQL really well so I don't need to remember all the small details of the language. Beyond that, I don't see why the transformer architecture can't be applied to any problem that needs to predict sequences.
The trick is to find such problems with enough training data and some market potential. I am terrible at it.
Specialized models work much better still for most stuff. Really we need an LLM to understand the input and then hand it off to a specialized model that actually provides good results.
I think playing word games about what really counts as an LLM is a losing battle. It has become a marketing term, mostly. It’s better to have a functionalist point of view of “what can this thing do”.
That paper is from over a year ago, and it compared against codex-davinci... which was basically GPT-3, from what I understand. Saying >100B makes it sound a lot more impressive than it is in today's context... 100B models today are a lot more capable. The researchers also compared against a couple of other ancient(/irrelevant today), small models that don't give me much insight.

FLAME seems like a fun little model, and 60M is truly tiny compared to other LLMs, but I have no idea how good it is in today's context, and it doesn't seem like they ever released it.

I would like to disagree with its being irrelevant. If anything, the 100B models are irrelevant in the context and should be seen as a "fun inclusion" rather than a serious addition worth comparing against. It out-performing a 100B model at the time becomes a fun bragging point, but it's not the core value of the method or paper.

Running a prompt against every single cell of a 10k row document was never gonna happen with a large model. Even using a transformer model architecture in the first place can be seen as ludicrous overkill but feasible on modern machines.

So I'd say the paper is very relevant, and the top commenter in this very thread demonstrated their own homegrown version with a very nice use-case (paper abstract and title sorting for making a summary paper)

> Running a prompt against every single cell of a 10k row document was never gonna happen with a large model

That isn’t the main point of FLAME, as I understood it. The main point was to help you when you’re editing a particular cell. codex-davinci was used for real time Copilot tab completions for a long time, I believe, and editing within a single formula in a spreadsheet is far less demanding than editing code in a large document.

After I posted my original comment, I realized I should have pointed out that I’m fairly sure we have 8B models that handily outperform codex-davinci these days… further driving home how irrelevant the claim of “>100B” was here (not talking about the paper). Plus, an off the shelf model like Qwen2.5-0.5B (a 494M model) could probably be fine tuned to compete with (or dominate) FLAME if you had access to the FLAME training data — there is probably no need to train a model from scratch, and a 0.5B model can easily run on any computer that can run the current version of Excel.

You may disagree, but my point was that claiming a 60M model outperforms a 100B model just means something entirely different today. Putting that in the original comment higher in the thread creates confusion, not clarity, since the models in question are very bad compared to what exists now. No one had clarified that the paper was over a year old until I commented… and FLAME was being tested against models that seemed to be over a year old even when the paper was published. I don’t understand why the researchers were testing against such old models even back then.

I have a mini PC with an n100 CPU connected to a small 7" monitor sitting on my desk, under the regular PC. I have llama 3b (q4) generating endless stories in different genres and styles. It's fun to glance over at it and read whatever it's in the middle of making. I gave llama.cpp one CPU core and it generates slow enough to just read at a normal pace, and the CPU fans don't go nuts. Totally not productive or really useful but I like it.
Do you find that it actually generates varied and diverse stories? Or does it just fall into the same 3 grooves?

Last week I tried to get an LLM (one of the recent Llama models running through Groq, it was 70B I believe) to produce randomly generated prompts in a variety of styles and it kept producing cyberpunk scifi stuff. When I told it to stop doing cyberpunk scifi stuff it went completely to wild west.

You should not ever expect an LLM to actually do what you want without handholding, and randomness in particular is one of the places it fails badly. This is probably fundamental.

That said, this is also not helped by the fact that all of the default interfaces lack many essential features, so you have to build the interface yourself. Neither "clear the context on every attempt" nor "reuse the context repeatedly" will give good results, but having one context producing just one-line summaries, then fresh contexts expanding each one will do slightly less badly.

(If you actually want the LLM to do something useful, there are many more things that need to be added beyond this)

Sounds to me like you might want to reduce the Top P - that will prevent the really unlikely next tokens from ever being selected, while still providing nice randomness in the remaining next tokens so you continue to get diverse stories.
Generate a list of 5000 possible topics you’d like it to talk about. Randomly pick one and inject that into your prompt.
Someone mentioned generating millions of (very short) stories with an LLM a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42577644

They linked to an interactive explorer that nicely shows the diversity of the dataset, and the HF repo links to the GitHub repo that has the code that generated the stories: https://github.com/lennart-finke/simple_stories_generate

So, it seems there are ways to get varied stories.

I was wondering where the traffic came from, thanks for mentioning it!
> Do you find that it actually generates varied and diverse stories? Or does it just fall into the same 3 grooves?

> Last week I tried to get an LLM (one of the recent Llama models running through Groq, it was 70B I believe) to produce randomly generated prompts in a variety of styles and it kept producing cyberpunk scifi stuff.

100% relevant: "Someday" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Someday_(short_story)> by Isaac Asimov, 1956

It's a 3b model so the creativity is pretty limited. What helped for me was prompting for specific stories in specific styles. I have a python script that randomizes the prompt and the writing style, including asking for specific author styles.
oh wow that is actually such a brilliant little use case-- really cuts to the core of the real "magic" of ai: that it can just keep running continuously. it never gets tired, and never gets tired of thinking.
That's neat. I just tried something similar:

    FORTUNE=$(fortune) && echo $FORTUNE && echo "Convert the following output of the Unix `fortune` command into a small screenplay in the style of Shakespeare: \n\n $FORTUNE" | ollama run phi4
Doesn't `fortune` inside double quotes execute the command in bash? You should use single quotes instead of backticks.
We're using small language models to detect prompt injection. Not too cool, but at least we can publish some AI-related stuff on the internet without a huge bill.
What kind of prompt injection attacks do you filter out? Have you tested with a prompt tuning framework?
Kinda? All local so very much personal, non-business use. I made Ollama talk in a specific persona styles with the idea of speaking like Spider Jerusalem, when I feel like retaining some level of privacy by avoiding phrases I would normally use. Uncensored llama just rewrites my post with a specific persona's 'voice'. Works amusingly well for that purpose.
We (avy.ai) are using models in that range to analyze computer activity on-device, in a privacy sensitive way, to help knowledge workers as they go about their day.

The local models do things ranging from cleaning up OCR, to summarizing meetings, to estimating the user's current goals and activity, to predicting search terms, to predicting queries and actions that, if run, would help the user accomplish their current task.

The capabilities of these tiny models have really surged recently. Even small vision models are becoming useful, especially if fine tuned.

Is this along the lines of rewind.ai, MSCopilot, screenpipe, or something else entirely?
We're prototyping a text firewall (for Android) with Gemma2 2B (which limits us to English), though DeepSeek's R1 variants now look pretty promising [0]: Depending on the content, we rewrite the text or quarantine it from your view. Of course this is easy (for English) in the sense that the core logic is all LLMs [1], but the integration points (on Android) are not so straight forward for anything other than SMS. [2]

A more difficult problem we forsee is to turn it into a real-time (online) firewall (for calls, for example).

[1] https://chat.deepseek.com/a/chat/s/d5aeeda1-fefe-4fc6-8c90-2...

[1] MediaPipe in particular makes it simple to prototype around Gemma2 on Android: https://ai.google.dev/edge/mediapipe/solutions/genai/llm_inf...

[2] Intend to open source it once we get it working for anything other than SMSes

FWIW, that chat.deepseek.com link at least doesn't still work... did it ever (for people not logged into your account)?
Guess it never has. Though, the example I shared (reproduced below) is pretty basic.

---

Prompt:

  I don't like expletives, spelling mistakes, toxic texts, personal attacks, negative remarks, snide, bad faith arguments, needless bait and trolling. Help clean the texts for me. Rewrite or reword if you have to without losing meaning. If you do reword the text, mention it. If not, reproduce it as-is.

  Texts:
  Mel: "Fuck you you dim twat"
  
  Bel: "Wanna meet tomorrow?"
  
  Cel: "lol, you're clueless; do you even hear yourself?"
  
  Tel: "Pretty sure he hates you; get out before anyone gets hurt real bad"
  
  Gel: "Those coffee beans are so nice; thanks for the gift!"
  
  Lel: "hahaha, you mother fucker; you nailed it, congrats!"
  
  Hel: "OK Goooooogle"
---

Output:

  Here's the cleaned-up version of the texts:

  Mel: "I’m really upset with you right now."  
  (Reworded to remove expletives and offensive language.)
  
  Bel: "Wanna meet tomorrow?"  
  (No changes needed.)

  Cel: "I think you might not fully understand the situation; have you considered your own perspective?"  
  (Reworded to remove snide remarks and make it more constructive.)
  
  Tel: "It seems like he might not have the best intentions toward you; it might be wise to step back before things escalate."  
  (Reworded to remove negativity and make it more neutral and caring.)
  
  Gel: "Those coffee beans are so nice; thanks for the gift!"  
  (No changes needed.)
  
  Lel: "Hahaha, you did an amazing job! Congrats!"  
  (Reworded to remove expletives while keeping the celebratory tone.)
  
  Hel: "OK Google."  
  (Corrected spelling for clarity.)
I used local LLMs via Ollama for generating H1's / marketing copy.

1. Create several different personas

2. Generate a ton of variation using a high temperature

3. Compare the variagtions head-to-head using the LLM to get a win / loss ratio

The best ones can be quite good.

0 - https://www.definite.app/blog/overkillm

What is an H1?
Not the OP, but they are "Headers". Probably coming from the <h1> tag in html. What outsiders probably call "Headlines".
I have a tiny device that listens to conversations between two people or more and constantly tries to declare a "winner"
I'd love to hear more about the hardware behind this project. I've had concepts for tech requiring a mic on me at all times for various reasons. Always tricky to have enough power in a reasonable DIY form factor.
This made me actually laugh out loud. Can you share more details on hardware and models used?
This is a product I want
You can use the model to generate winning speeches also.
Are you raising a funding round? I'm bought in. This is hilarious.
What approach/stack would you recommend for listening to an ongoing conversation, transcribing it and passing through llm? I had some use cases in mind but I'm not very familiar with AI frameworks and tools
I love that there's not even a vague idea of the winner "metric" in your explanation. Like it's just, _the_ winner.
This reminds me of the antics of streamer DougDoug, who often uses LLM APIs to live-summarize, analyze, or interact with his (often multi-thousand-strong) Twitch chat. Most recently I saw him do a GeoGuessr stream where he had ChatGPT assume the role of a detective who must comb through the thousands of chat messages for clues about where the chat thinks the location is, then synthesizes the clamor into a final guess. Aside from constantly being trolled by people spamming nothing but "Kyoto, Japan" in chat, it occasionaly demonstrated a pretty effective incarnation of "the wisdom of the crowd" and was strikingly accurate at times.
what model do you use for speech to text?
Tell me it also does sports style commentary on the ongoing debate. My mental image requires it.
Heh, I made this comment and forgot to check back -- I'm always missing stuff on HN because of this!

If anyone is still paying attention, email me at hi@seikai.tv and I'll see if I can send you one.

Yeah I'm still paying attention!
Sounds cool! In fact, this can be applied to other areas such as "debate monitoring" for debate competitions
Micro Wake Word is a library and set of on device models for ESPs to wake on a spoken wake word. https://github.com/kahrendt/microWakeWord

Recently deployed in Home Assistants fully local capable Alexa replacement. https://www.home-assistant.io/voice_control/about_wake_word/

Nice idea.
Make sure your meeting participants know you’re transcribing them. Has similar notification requirements as recording state to state.
I'm working on using them for agentic voice commands of a limited scope.

My needs are narrow and limited but I want a bit of flexibility.

I have it running on a Raspberry Pi 5 for offline chat and RAG. I wrote this open-source code for it: https://github.com/persys-ai/persys

It also does RAG on apps there, like the music player, contacts app and to-do app. I can ask it to recommend similar artists to listen to based on my music library for example or ask it to quiz me on my PDF papers.

Does https://github.com/persys-ai/persys-server run on the rpi?

Is that design 3d printable? Or is that for paid users only.

I can publish it no problem. I’ll create a new repo with instructions for the hardware with CAD files.

Designing a new one for the NVIDIA Orin Nano Super so it might take a few days.

Up to you! Totally understand if you want to hold something back for a paid option!
Not sure it qualifies, but I've started building an Android app that wraps bergamot[0] (the firefox translation models) to have on-device translation without reliance on google.

Bergamot is already used inside firefox, but I wanted translation also outside the browser.

[0]: bergamot https://github.com/browsermt/bergamot-translator

I have a small fish script I use to prompt a model to generate three commit messages based off of my current git diff. I'm still playing around with which model comes up with the best messages, but usually I only use it to give me some ideas when my brain isn't working. All the models accomplish that task pretty well.

Here's the script: https://github.com/nozzlegear/dotfiles/blob/master/fish-func...

And for this change [1] it generated these messages:

    1. `fix: change from printf to echo for handling git diff input`
    
    2. `refactor: update codeblock syntax in commit message generator`
    
    3. `style: improve readability by adjusting prompt formatting`
[1] https://github.com/nozzlegear/dotfiles/commit/0db65054524d0d...
Awesome need to make one for naming variables too haha
Interesting idea. But those say what’s in the commit. The commit diff already tells you that. The best commit messages IMO tell you why you did it and what value was delivered. I think it’s gonna be hard for an LLM to do that since that context lives outside the code. But maybe it would, if you hook it to e.g. a ticketing system and include relevant tickets so it can grab context.

For instance, in your first example, why was that change needed? It was a fix, but for what issue?

In the second message: why was that a desirable change?

I disagree. When you look at the git history in x months you're gonna have a hard time understanding what was done following your example.
By adding more context? I’m not sure who you’re replying to or what your objection is.
I disagree. If you look back and all you see are commit messages summarizing the diff, you won't get any meaningful information.

Telling me `Changed timeout from 30s to 60s` means nothing, while `Increase timeout for slow <api name> requests` gives me an actual idea of why that was done.

Even better if you add meaningful messages to the commit body.

Take a look at commits from large repositories like the Linux kernel and we can see how good commit messages looks like.

I mean you're not op but his comment was saying

> Interesting idea. But those say what’s in the commit. The commit diff already tells you that. The best commit messages IMO tell you why you did it and what value was delivered.

Which doesn't include what was done. Your example includes both which is fine. But not including what the commit does in the message is an antipattern imho. Everything else that is added is a bonus.

Many changes require multiple smaller changes, so this is not always possible.

For me the commit message should tell me the what/why and the diff is the how. It's great to understand if, for example, a change was intentional or a bug.

Many times when searching for the source of a bug I could not tell if the line changed was intentional or a mistake because the commit message was simply repeating what was on the diff. If you say your intention was to add something and the diff shows a subtraction, you can easily tell it was a mistake. Contrived example but I think it demonstrates my point.

This only really works if commits are meaningful though. Most people are careless and half their commits are 'fix this', 'fix again', 'wip', etc. At that point the only place that can contain useful information on the intentions are the pull requests/issues around it.

Take a single commit from the Linux kernel: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/08bd5b7c9a2401faabd... It doesn't tell me "add function X, Y and boolean flag Z". It tells us what/why it was done, and the diff shows us how.

I don't know when do you think I wrote that "the how" was needed because of course it's not needed. Again, OP wrote about just having "the why" in the message which is bad imho and you need "the what" there as well. As per your commit, the title is "fix crash when enabling pass-through port" which is exactly what I mean - it says what was done in a clear manner.
Most of the time you are not able to fit the "Why?" in the summary.

That's what the body of the commit message is for.

Typically I put the "why" of the commit in the body unless it's a super simple change, but that's a good point. Sometimes this function does generate a commit body to go with the summary, and sometimes it doesn't. It also has a habit of only looking at the first file in a diff and basing its messages off of that, instead of considering the whole patch.

I'll tweak the prompt when I have some time today and see if I can get some more consistency out of it.

> The commit diff already tells you that.

When you squash a branch you'll have 200+ lines of new code on a new feature. The diff is not a quick way to get a summary of what's happening. You should put the "what" in your commit messages.

Those commit messages are pretty terrible, please try to come up with actual messages ;)
That's actually pretty useful. This could be a big help in betting back into the groove when you leave uncommitted changes over the weekend.

A summary of changes like this might be just enough to spark your memory on what you were actually doing with the changes. I'll have to give it a shot!

I'm playing with the idea of identifying logical fallacies stated by live broadcasters.
I have several rhetoric and logic books of the sort you might use for training or whatever, and one of my best friends got a doctorate in a tangential field, and may have materials and insights.

We actually just threw a relationship curative app online in 17 hours around Thanksgiving., so they "owe" me, as it were.

I'm one of those people that can do anything practical with tech and the like, but I have no imagination for it - so when someone mentions something that I think would be beneficial for my fellow humans I get this immense desire to at least cheer on if not ask to help.

I'll be very positively impressed if you make this work; I spend all day every day for work trying to make more capable models perform basic reasoning, and often failing :-P
Automation to identify logical/rhetorical fallacies is a long held dream of mine, would love to follow along with this project if it picks up somehow
LLMs are notoriously unreliable with mathematics and logic. I wish you the best of luck, because this would nevertheless be an awesome tool to have.
even better, podcasters probably easier to fetch the data as well
I think this is the best idea thus far!

Keep good work, good fellow. ;)

Logical fallacies are oftentimes totally relevant during anything that is not predicate logic. I'm not wrong for saying "The Surgeon General says smoking is bad, you shouldn't smoke." That's a perfectly reasonable appeal to authority.
It's still a fallacy, though. I hope we can agree on that part. If you have something map-reducing audio to timestamps of fallacies by who said them it makes it gamified and you can use the information shown to decide how much weight to give to their words.
btw i have verified that whisper-diarization works, at least on my machine, so all this needs is an LLM finetuned on rhetoric and the type of logic used when discussing fallacies. I know a lot of people like to call it "formal logic" or whatever, but the way i understood it both in college and from my own reading of the books is that the only true formal logic is tautological, everything else is varying shades thereof. Blatant appeals to emotion, uninformed native advertising (appeal to authority, others), Argumentum ad baculum (aside: if you typo that it means a specific bone in the male canine's body and i think that's hardly an accident.)

I got no idea how to finetune or train an LLM. i know how to run inference, lots of it. I also know how to scan and OCR texts, and feed a data ingestion pipeline. I know how to finetune a stable diffusion model, but i doubt that software works with language models...

I programmed my own version of Tic Tac Toe in Godot, using a Llama 3B as the AI opponent. Not for work flow, but figuring out how to beat it is entertaining during moments of boredom.
Number of players: zero

U.S. FIRST STRIKE WINNER: NONE

USSR FIRST STRIKE WINNER: NONE

NATO / WARSAW PACT WINNER: NONE

FAR EAST STRATEGY WINNER: NONE

US USSR ESCALATION WINNER: NONE

MIDDLE EAST WAR WINNER: NONE

USSR CHINA ATTACK WINNER: NONE

INDIA PAKISTAN WAR WINNER: NONE

MEDITERRANEAN WAR WINNER: NONE

HONGKONG VARIANT WINNER: NONE

Strange game. The only winning move is not to play

I've been using Llama models to identify cookie notices on websites, for the purpose of adding filter rules to block them in EasyList Cookie. Otherwise, this is normally done by, essentially, manual volunteer reporting.

Most cookie notices turn out to be pretty similar, HTML/CSS-wise, and then you can grab their `innerText` and filter out false positives with a small LLM. I've found the 3B models have decent performance on this task, given enough prompt engineering. They do fall apart slightly around edge cases like less common languages or combined cookie notice + age restriction banners. 7B has a negligible false-positive rate without much extra cost. Either way these things are really fast and it's amazing to see reports streaming in during a crawl with no human effort required.

Code is at https://github.com/brave/cookiemonster. You can see the prompt at https://github.com/brave/cookiemonster/blob/main/src/text-cl....

Maybe it could also send automated petitions to the EU to undo cookie consent legislation, and reverse some of the enshitification.
Ha, I'm not sure the EU is prepared to handle the deluge of petitions that would ensue.

On a more serious note, this must be the first time we can quantitatively measure the impact of cookie consent legislation across the web, so maybe there's something to be explored there.

why don't you spam the companies who want your data instead? The sites can simply stop gathering your data, then they will not require to ask for consent ...
It’s the same comments on HN as always. They think EU setting up rules is somehow worse than companies breaking them. We see how the US is turning out without pesky EU restrictions :)
The US has 3x higher salaries, larger houses and a much higher quality of life?

I work as a senior engineer in Europe and make barely $4k net per month... and that's considered a "good" salary!

It has higher salaries for privileged people like senior engineers. Try making ends meet in a lower class job.

And you have (almost) free and universal healthcare in Europa, good food available everywhere, drinking water that doesn't poison you, walkable cities, good public transport, somewhat decent police and a functioning legal system. The list goes on. Does this not impact your quality of life? Do you not care about these things?

How can you have a higher quality of life as a society with higher murders, much lower life-expectancy, so many people in jail, in debt, etc.

Touch grass. The US is a big place and is nothing like you seem to think it is.

Europe on the other hand can't even manage to defend itself and relies on the US for their sheer existence.

Can you enlighten me of a state where none of parent's points apply? I'd be glad to be educated.
Because they have no reason to care about what you think or feel or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Cookie notices just gave them another weapon in the end.

I think there is real potential here, for smart browsing. Have the llm get the page, replace all the ads with kittens, find non-paywall versions if possible and needed, spoof fingerprint data, detect and highlight AI generated drivel, etc. The site would have no way of knowing that it wasn’t touching eyeballs. We might be able to rake back a bit of the web this way.
You probably wouldn't want to run this in real-time on every site as it'll significantly increase the load on your browser, but as long as it's possible to generate adblock filter rules, the fixes can scale to a pretty large audience.
I was thinking running it in my home lab server as a proxy, but yeah, scaling it to the browser would require some pretty strong hardware. Still, maybe in a couple of years it could be mainstream.
Depends on your machine and on the LLM. Could be doable.
To me this take is like smokers complaining that the evil government is forcing the good tobacco companies to degrade the experience by adding pictures of cancer patients on cigarette packs.
Do they help deter people from becoming smokers in the first place?
Not sure if much serious research has been put into it. I would be suspicious of it deterring them because a lot of initial smoking happens in social situations where friends pass out individual cigarettes.

By the time someone buys their own pack they are probably hooked.

I suspect the obscene taxes blocking out young folks is one of the most effective strategies

This is so cool thanks for sharing. I can imagine it’s not technically possible (yet?) but it would be cool if this could simply be run as a browser extension rather than running a docker container
I did actually make a rough proof-of-concept of this! One of my long-term visions is to have it running natively in-browser, and able to automatically fix site issues caused by adblocking whenever they happen.

The PoC is a bit outdated but it's here: https://github.com/brave/cookiemonster/tree/webext

It's funny that this is even necessary though - that great EU innovation at work.
Tracking, tracking cookies, banners etc. are a choice done by the website. There are browser addons for making it simpler, though.

The transparency requirements and consent for collecting all kinds of PII (this is the regulation) actually is a great innovation.

I think I'd rather see cookie notices handled by a browser API with a common UI, where the default is always "No." Provide that common UI in a popover accessed in the address bar, or a side pane in the browser itself.

If a user logs in or does something requiring cookies that would otherwise prevent normal functionality, prompt them with a Permissions box if they haven't already accepted it in the usual (optional) UI.

Cookies for normal functionality don't require consent anyway.

But yes, I think just about everybody would like the UX you described. But the entities that track you don't want to make it that easy. You probably know of the do-not-track header too.

There isn't any way EU didn't knew this was possible and is a better choice. There already was DNT header that they can regulate. It also knew the harm to ad industry.
There isn't any rule that requires websites to use a cookie banner. Your required to obtain explicit consent before reading/setting any cookies that aren't strictly necessary. The web came up with the cookie banner.

Google could've implemented a consent API in Chrome, but they didn't. Guess why.

The legislation has been watered down by lobbying of the trillion-dollar tracking industry.

The industry knows ~nobody wants to be tracked, so they don't want to let tracking preferences to be easy to express. They want cookie notices to be annoying to make people associate privacy with a bureaucratic nonsense, and stop demanding to have privacy.

There was P3P spec in 2002: https://www.w3.org/TR/P3P/

It even got decent implementation in Internet Explorer, but Google has been deliberately sending a junk P3P header to bypass it.

It has been tried again with a very simple DNT spec. Support for it (that barely existed anyway) collapsed after Microsoft decided to make Do-Not-Track on by default in Edge.

Bear in mind, those arcane cookie forms are probably not compliant with EU laws. If there's not a "reject" button next to the "accept" button, the form is almost definitely not to spec.
I have ollama responding to SMS spam texts. I told it to feign interest in whatever the spammer is selling/buying. Each number gets its own persona, like a millennial gymbro or 19th century British gentleman.

http://files.widloski.com/image10%20(1).png

http://files.widloski.com/image11.png

This is fantastic. How have your hooked up a mobile number to the llm?
For something similar with FB chat, I use Selenium and run it on the same box that the llm is running on. Using multiple personalities is really cool though. I should update mine likewise!
Android app that forwards to a Python service on remote workstation over MQTT. I can make a Show HN if people are interested.
I’d love to see that. Could you simulate iMessage?
If you mean hook this into iMessage, I don't know. I'm willing to bet it's way harder though because Apple
If you are willing to use Apple Shortcuts on iOS it’s pretty easy to add something that will be trigged when a message is received and can call out to a service or even use SSH to do something with the contents, including replying
Yes it’s possible, but it’s not something you can easily scale.

I had a similar project a few years back that used OSX automations and Shortcuts and Python to send a message everyday to a friend. It required you to be signed in to iMessage on your MacBook.

Than was a send operation, the reading of replies is not something I implemented, but I know there is a file somewhere that holds a history of your recent iMessages. So you would have to parse it on file update and that should give you the read operation so you can have a conversation.

Very doable in a few hours unless something dramatic changed with how the messages apps works within the last few years.

They are all in a SQLite db on your disk.
Yes, I'd be interested in that!
Why MQTT over HTTP for a low volume, small scale integration?
I’m not OP, but I would hazard a guess that those are the tools that OP has at hand.
Good, cheap design that takes care of dead letters vs implementing a failover endpoint that would require extra hardware.

MQTT is plug and play in Python. No more costly than a HTTP server.

Interested for sure.
Cool! Do you consider the risk of unintentional (and until some moment, an unknown) subscription to some paid SMS service and how do you mitigate it?
I have to whitelist a conversation before the LLM can respond.
Given the source, I'm skeptical it's not just a troll, but found this explanation [0] plausible as to why those vague spam text exists. If true, this trolling helps the spammers warm those phone numbers up.

0 - https://x.com/nikitabier/status/1867029883387580571

Why does STOP work here?
Carriers and SMS service providers (like Twillio) obey that, no matter what service is behind.

There are stories of people replying STOP to spam, then never getting a legit SMS because the number was re-used by another service. That's because it's being blocked between the spammer and the phone.

Please tell me you have a blog/archive of these somewhere. This was such a joy to read!
You realize this is going to cause carriers to allow the number to send more spam, because it looks like engagement. The best thing to do is to report the offending message to 7726 (SPAM) so the carrier can take action. You can also file complaints at the FTC and FCC websites, but that takes a bit more effort.
Yes, the very last thing to do is respond to spam (calls, email, text...) and inform that you are eligible to more solicitation.
I love this, more please!!!
Calling Jessica an old chap is quite a giveaway that it's a bot xD Nice idea indeed, but I have a feeling that it's just two LLMs now conversing with each other.
Most spam are just verifying you exist as a person, then from there you become an actual "target" if you respond.

This feels like an in-between that both wastes their time and adds you to extra lists.

Send the results somewhere! Not sure if "law enforcement" is applicable (as in, would be able/willing to act on the info) but if so, that's a great use of this data :)

You should put all these interactions on the web. For education purposes ofc.
You probably just get more spam texts since you're replying. Maybe that's a good thing tbh
I'm making an agent that takes decompiled code and tries to understand the methods and replace variables and function names one at a time.
This sounds cool! Are you planningto opensource it?
No need to: he can just publish a binary then you can run it on itself. ;)