HN Explorer

Ask HN: Is Hacker News Being Manipulated?

59 points by ddxv ↗ HN
I'm all for keeping the discourse on HackerNews tight, but lately I see dozens of posts a day about serious issues for all of us being flagged.

The one that sent me over the edge was this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42917806

A US Bill proposed that could represent jail time for anyone importing AI software/models from China OR exporting AI software/models TO China.

This seemed huge to me, and I genuinely wanted to read the discussion. But when I went back to the post, it had been flagged.

It seems to me there is a concerted effort to stop speech related to certain topics on HackerNews lately.

Has anyone else noticed this?

46 comments

[ 2.2 ms ] story [ 109 ms ] thread
almostdeadguy
100%, seems like a clear effort to bury anything critical or even just concerned about the actions of Musk, Altman, and the other tech billionaires in their relationship with the new administration. I saw this article also got flagged and there is nothing objectionable about it: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engin...
BeetleB
How can you determine if it is being manipulated?
chairmansteve
There would need to be a way to list all flagged stories. I don't know if there is.
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nico
Here’s a method (and results): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42923154

However, that only shows flagged posts, it doesn’t show posts that weren’t flagged but were taken off the front page (which today seems like it’s pretty much all posts about Musk or Trump)

toomuchtodo
https://github.com/vitoplantamura/HackerNewsRemovals
nico
This is missing a lot of stories

Specifically, almost every story about what’s happening with the current govt have been taken down from the FP in the last 24-48hrs

They could be getting automatically removed from the FP, however they are still getting removed, and the data makes it look like almost nothing is

toomuchtodo
Consider opening an issue to reconcile from other signal HN exposes (/active and such).
minimaxir
There are more people on HN that don't like politics getting into their tech news than pro-Trump/Elon fanboys.

The core issue is that flagging is so much more powerful than upvotes. There isn't a good way to change that without causing other issues.

Terr_
A related issue: I've seen folks abuse flagging as a form of mega-downvote, although it's more common in comments than in submissions.
Fricken
It is now basically impossible to talk about tech industry news without it being politcal and HNs gods and masters were instrumental in making it that way. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending it isn't political is political.

Maybe take up knitting or something. The knitters of the world aren't trying to do a fascist takeover of America.

basementcat
I think it is combination of two factors.

1. A subset of HN readers are uninterested in items outside a narrow range of topics and wish to keep HN focused instead of becoming like other forums that grew to cater to broader audiences.

2. Forum moderators may have a financial incentive to ensure that certain topics are discussed more often and other topics are discussed less often.

t4throwaway
could be that we are sick of reading this slop, if you want to doom gloom, go post on reddit in some US centric subreddit.
ddxv
The post I mentioned is just the text of a US Bill that would ban working with Chinese AI or exporting models to China? Yes, I'm sorry it's doom and gloomy, but it is happening and heavily relates to tech.
defrost
It's also a repeated topic, political, and it only takes a very few users of more than a few years to flag a post.

On the flip side, [flagged] threads are fully active, they're not dead, they just don't feature on "the front page".

For What it's Worth, I've been on site for over a decade, quite active the past two years and never look at "the front page".

I see all posts that gain a little traction (even if they are flagged) via the RSS feed and I generally watch all comment as they happen via https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments

mtmail
> The one that sent me over the edge was this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42917806 [GOP bill proposes 20 years in jail for anyone who downloads a Chinese AI models]

The same story was discussed in "Proposed bill to make it a crime to download DeepSeek in the US" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904838 12 hours earlier. Some users flag when they see a comment "previously <link>" because it's not easy to mark duplicates. I'm not saying it's a good model.

ddxv
That's a good potential reason.
bestouff
@dang do we miss a "mark dupe" button ?
k310
Flagging? "Power corrupts"

Before this thread is flagged, let me repost:

I think that what the world's richest tech billionaire is doing to the U.S. tech infrastructure with tech is highly relevant here. We DO have the ambivalent word "hacker" in the site name.

Here's a thread with my comment on "what technology wants", not what Bond Villain sociopaths want.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42589978

ddxv
Yes, the post was eventually flagged after being up for an hour.
cebert
I personally think there’s far more sites for news and politics. I’d prefer HN stick to being tech focused.
SlightlyLeftPad
I do tend to agree with this sentiment however, if a policy change has a direct impact on the tech industry or science in general it probably is worth discussion here. I don’t believe that this needs to turn into an unintelligent discussion about which side is right here.

Edit: one thing to add, I also really appreciate that I can come here to HN and just see headlines without a political spin on everything. It’s one of the _very_ few places for that. I don’t know how to achieve both goals. The reality is probably that we need to see the things that have an impact on the industry and it’s fair to keep everything else off of HN.

EA-3167
It doesn't need to, but it reliably does. The whole internet, and pretty much all English-speaking media, is talking about ONE THING. Trump. American politics. Elon Musk. There's a lot noise and very little else. People often don't discuss what's happening, they discuss what someone said, or as in the case of OP a bill that has no chance of being passed. They freak out about tariffs that are unlikely to ever be imposed for so many reasons, not the least of which is the tenable legality of claiming a natsec imperative to enforce them.

But people still focus on the words, the threats, the show, and they act like it's somehow a failure as a person or a citizen to not tear out your hair along with them. When the question of, "Ok, what can be done" comes up, there's a lot of vague or high-minded responses, and then it's back to to the races.

And the whole social media and media world is doing it. Why does HN have to? Will one more forum lowering its standards help in some way?

flocciput
Personally, I want to see these topics on HN BECAUSE of the high standards for discussion here. What is stopping people from flagging individual comments that don't measure up to HN guidelines? Instead these entire submissions are being flagged in anticipation of an imagined future argument, which further derails anything there is to be said about it because the conversation turns to the subject of the flagging itself. THAT is what kills discussion.
numpad0
I would totally agree, but at the same time, this is possibly "collapse of Soviet Union reported over IRC" class and mode of event.
drweevil
Well, our tech moguls aren’t staying out of politics, so you can blame them.
timacles
Definitely. One of the biggest moments of our lifetimes, directly affecting almost every person on this message board, involving high profile “tech” people, curiously absent from any discussion on the main page.

I don’t buy the “ we don’t talk politics here ” argument. This directly intersects the tech world on multiple levels

readthenotes1
Most of what I've seen are uninformed knee jerk reactions. Glad they're getting flagged
dang
What is the biggest moment of our lifetimes &c that isn't getting any discussion on HN's frontpage? That can't be right.

The OP only refers to a story about a proposed bill which (like most of those) probably isn't going anywhere, so I assume you must have something else in mind.

zingababba
What /isn't/ being manipulated? Even 4chan has moderation.
krapp
(post the astronaut with a gun "always has been" meme here)
fullshark
I think a substantial % just don't want to see any posts about politics or even politics adjacent stuff and flag them. I don't blame the impulse, political discussion is death to forums.
kstenerud
It's been that way for about half a year now. There's a growing list of topics that will never make the front page anymore.

For the first time in over a decade, I've turned on show dead, skip the front page and go directly to the new feed for my tech news.

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dttze
The site is run and moderated by VC tech bros and people who make their money from them. Everything should make sense once you realize that.
ChrisArchitect
The one that "sent you over the edge" is a dupe. Of which there is an ongoing thread, that's not even flagged.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904838

Yes there been a lot of flagged Musk/Trump-related posts lately, partly due to an aversion of heavily political current events stories, but also there's been a number of discussions with lots of eyeballs, hundreds of upvotes and comments before getting flagged. And that's amidst ten different submissions of the same story about the treasury, USAID, CDC, tariffs, whatever. So it's not nothing. There is some engagement, the discussion maybe then devolved and that's it. Stuff moves fast round here, and there's been a particularly heavy influx of headlines lately, but amidst any influx of attempt to flag things to hell, all is not lost, there's still engagement and sharing.

dang
> The one that sent me over the edge was this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42917806

It's a longstanding principle on HN that proposed bills aren't really on topic unless there's something to prove otherwise. The reason is simple: most proposed bills never amount to anything. (And oftentimes are political stunts.)

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

If attempts to ban DeepSeek in the US actually get anywhere, you can be sure there will be plenty of discussion on HN.

theLegionWithin
easy solution, don't knowingly & willingly trade in/interact with Chinese companies, agents, or products. they're highly verboten