You can always just use password unlock. Face ID is not a requirement to use the phone. It’s just a convenience.
As to why the in screen fingerprint reader is not an option, obviously there was some sort of conscious decision to not go that route. I can’t tell whether that decision was motivated by money or by desire for good UX. Probably both
Because face id is way better. I have yet to meet anyone with phones where in screen finger print work reliably. Works. Works. Then suddenly fails many times in a row and they get visibly frustrated.
Just one anecdote, but I've reliably used fingerprint unlocking since the iPhone 5S all the way up until a few days ago when I switched to an iPhone 13 mini. Facetime doesn't actually feel more convenient to me.
Oh - I thought I was going to be providing you with one counter-example, but I've just thought of something which means I'll have to switch to agreeing with you. When it's raining and my fingers are even slightly wet, it's all over for fingerprint unlocking for me.
I'm late seeing your reply, but thanks for pointing that out. I did miss that when replying.
And also, thanks for not making me feel stupid for not reading more carefully! HN is better than most of the web for giving benefit of the doubt, etc. but still... thanks.
Is there a third party 13 Mini battery that packs more (some kind of) compressed juice (at least 3.5K? slightly more than my current 14)? :D
I rant about iPhone size a lot but honestly given the choice of dealing with same day by evening/afternoon battery drain or a much bigger phone with better battery I'd choose the latter. My iPhone 12 Mini battery was a horror story and I didn't even use much. That's why I took iPhone 14 even though if I wanted I could find iPhone 13 Mini online.
But if they have two phones with same battery capacity and the smaller phone is costlier and also maybe a little less capable than the bigger phone I'd still buy it.
The SE3 is surprisingly capable, though it doesn’t have the ultra wide band radio, which means it can’t be used as a car key for one of our cars. (The 13 mini has that radio, but the car key feature is too unreliable to be useful.)
> If my 13 mini dies I'll definitely be considering my non-Apple options.
I just can't imagine ever going back to Android though after switching to iOS a few years ago. If my 13 mini dies I think I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that another used one is still viable. Or maybe start carrying my phone on a shoulder strap instead of in my pocket. I don't know. The situation is unpleasant to contemplate.
As someone who tried, this “I’ll just go android” is just a dream. I almost threw it into the wall a few times while using it for around eight months. Returning to iphone felt like working with kittens after a year of insurance company clerk burnout. No one itt goes android.
I have made peace with it. It's not coming. When I look around me - the number of people who want a small sized phone is exactly zero. The ship has sailed. I will still buy an SE if it's much cheaper than the base iPhone model and just one version old (on most hardware and doesn't have to be as powerful as the base iPhone) when my iPhone 14 dies. But seeing they are releasing it in 3 years now (or 4?) I am not sure that SE will be the one-gen-old when I might change my 14.
It's been close to 2 years and I still struggle with the size of my iPhone 14 - and to think that this fucking phablet is the smallest iPhone.
At this point I am just waiting for a much more affordable simple Android phone (with the OS being OEM-deGoogled and supported for at least 3 years with timely updates). I mean I will buy it even if it's slightly bigger than base iPhone because size was the reason I had bought my first iPhone which was the first SE :)
If need to, keep your eyes open for phones that you can use Graphene on - it is the easiest, possibly safest, de-googled operating system. And very easy to install.
I don’t think any OEMs are going to support that. The ones that might or sell those niche de-googled phones are not selling in my country and seeing the world tier country is in those small firms are not selling/servicing here (and maybe rightly so). Also, I have tried flashing on my own. It’s not for me. I will however still have faint hopes for an OEM supported de-googled OS other than iOS.
I went down this path. The OEM support isn’t going to be your main problem.
Google has pulled more and more of android out of the open source project (AOSP) over the years and replaced it with Google Play stuff that has hard dependencies on letting them surveil your phone.
In practice, this means that stuff like GPS lock “needs” the cloud and won’t work reliably for most apps (it works fine for ones in fdroid, and in third party map apps, but not in Lyft, Uber, EV charging apps, or other commercial stuff that wants location).
On top of that, many apps will silently crash at startup. Sometimes, giving them google play services fixes them, sometimes not. When I installed graphene, my phone battery got 2x the manufacturer estimate. When I added sandboxed google play services, it went down to the advertised battery life, so the phone spends about half its power budget spying on you.
On top of that, if the iPhone not pro / max were an android, it’d be one of the smallest on the market.
Good luck. I’d love to be proven wrong on either point.
I've also just made peace with Apple not releasing another small phone - I bought a used (unfortunately not Apple-refurbished) iPhone 13 Mini a few days ago.
I love this idea except for the stock Android part. I don’t want anything Google Services even near it. Google absolute tracking of every Android device for ads and there being no clean way to prevent it is one of the prime reasons I had moved to iPhones.
I will miss the loss of the Touch ID. Mainly because of the way I carry my phone (for those that carry phone in jeans front pocket it’s trivial to unlock your phone in the same motion you pull it out of your pocket), but in my personal opinion Touch ID is also more secure. It’s easier to point a phone at someone’s face than it is to force them to place their thumb in a specific area.
Good security understands the tradeoff of usability. I have felt for a long while that Touch ID did quite well on riding that balance, and that Face ID moves more toward UX at the sacrifice of security
Touch button area also serves as a holding point (e.g. for a pinky finger or a thumb base) that doesn’t touch the screen. When I bought my SE, my buddy bought 13 mini, which had full-surface touch. Our every telegram discussion ended in him “recording audio” because you cannot exit an app without touching screen at bottom-right with the meaty base of your thumb. I was happy I went SE. I also bought a non-frameless tablet for my grandma for the same reason, because people have to firmly hold devices without touching the screen somehow. Her previous tablet had thin frames and every time she wanted to show something to me, it “oh, flew away again”, because she touched the screen. Modern design is done by people who value only form without even thinking of function. This is pure idiocy, literally as in idiocracy movie. Same for this new SE which is just an iphone now, cause they can’t help but idiot it.
For what it's worth, I've been trying for years now to have my partner's phone face unlock while sitting side by side, facing etc. All with consent of course.
It's surprisingly hard, my success rate is abysmal. Especially as I have to manipulate the device from the side while somewhat pointing it at her.
And her success rate is also modestly low, in particular when her make-up changes or hair style covers more or less of her face. She's typing her password about a dozen of times a day.
All in all I think it is pretty secure, but also not as practical as touted in the ads, and I'm kinda glad my own phone works with both finger and face recognition.
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[ 5.6 ms ] story [ 86.2 ms ] threadAs to why the in screen fingerprint reader is not an option, obviously there was some sort of conscious decision to not go that route. I can’t tell whether that decision was motivated by money or by desire for good UX. Probably both
Oh - I thought I was going to be providing you with one counter-example, but I've just thought of something which means I'll have to switch to agreeing with you. When it's raining and my fingers are even slightly wet, it's all over for fingerprint unlocking for me.
And also, thanks for not making me feel stupid for not reading more carefully! HN is better than most of the web for giving benefit of the doubt, etc. but still... thanks.
I wish iphones came with both faceid and a finger print on side button.
For iPhone SE3: Assuming they stop selling it tomorrow, February 2032.
That’s when they become officially obsolete. 2 years prior, repairs only if they have the parts.
I rant about iPhone size a lot but honestly given the choice of dealing with same day by evening/afternoon battery drain or a much bigger phone with better battery I'd choose the latter. My iPhone 12 Mini battery was a horror story and I didn't even use much. That's why I took iPhone 14 even though if I wanted I could find iPhone 13 Mini online.
But if they have two phones with same battery capacity and the smaller phone is costlier and also maybe a little less capable than the bigger phone I'd still buy it.
I just can't imagine ever going back to Android though after switching to iOS a few years ago. If my 13 mini dies I think I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that another used one is still viable. Or maybe start carrying my phone on a shoulder strap instead of in my pocket. I don't know. The situation is unpleasant to contemplate.
It's been close to 2 years and I still struggle with the size of my iPhone 14 - and to think that this fucking phablet is the smallest iPhone.
At this point I am just waiting for a much more affordable simple Android phone (with the OS being OEM-deGoogled and supported for at least 3 years with timely updates). I mean I will buy it even if it's slightly bigger than base iPhone because size was the reason I had bought my first iPhone which was the first SE :)
Google has pulled more and more of android out of the open source project (AOSP) over the years and replaced it with Google Play stuff that has hard dependencies on letting them surveil your phone.
In practice, this means that stuff like GPS lock “needs” the cloud and won’t work reliably for most apps (it works fine for ones in fdroid, and in third party map apps, but not in Lyft, Uber, EV charging apps, or other commercial stuff that wants location).
On top of that, many apps will silently crash at startup. Sometimes, giving them google play services fixes them, sometimes not. When I installed graphene, my phone battery got 2x the manufacturer estimate. When I added sandboxed google play services, it went down to the advertised battery life, so the phone spends about half its power budget spying on you.
On top of that, if the iPhone not pro / max were an android, it’d be one of the smallest on the market.
Good luck. I’d love to be proven wrong on either point.
I'm holding out hope for: https://smallandroidphone.com/
If my phone is lost, I’ll look for a refurbished version of one of a <= SE3 or a 13 mini.
If it’s run over by a truck, i’ll put the pieces in a bag and ask apple to repair it.
My budget for new phones is $1300 every three years, but no one makes a reasonable phone, so the budget is left unspent.
Good security understands the tradeoff of usability. I have felt for a long while that Touch ID did quite well on riding that balance, and that Face ID moves more toward UX at the sacrifice of security
It's surprisingly hard, my success rate is abysmal. Especially as I have to manipulate the device from the side while somewhat pointing it at her.
And her success rate is also modestly low, in particular when her make-up changes or hair style covers more or less of her face. She's typing her password about a dozen of times a day.
All in all I think it is pretty secure, but also not as practical as touted in the ads, and I'm kinda glad my own phone works with both finger and face recognition.