Launch HN: Maritime Fusion (YC W25) – Fusion Reactors for Ships

216 points by jtcohen ↗ HN
Hey HN, we’re Justin and Jason, co-founders of Maritime Fusion (https://maritimefusion.com/). We’re working on putting fusion reactors on ships—specifically, large container ships and defence applications. Should be easy!

Yes, we know: fusion has been the energy source of the future…and it always will be. But high-temperature superconductors (HTS) have changed the game for magnetic confinement, and we believe we’ll witness Q > 1 within a few (say 3) years. That’s huge.

(Side note: Q is the ratio of input power divided by output power. Q> 1 means the reactor is producing more power than it consumes, achieving ‘breakeven.’)

However, getting to breakeven is just the first daunting challenge. Making the first-of-a-kind (FOAK) reactors cost-competitive on the grid? That might be even harder than achieving breakeven.

That’s why we’re taking this soon-to-be breakthrough in fusion and applying it to the first market we believe makes sense: ships.

Instead of targeting 24/7 baseload grid electricity—where fusion has to compete with solar, wind, batteries, and natural gas—we’re focusing on large commercial shipping (>10,000 TEU) and mobile military vessels to provide ship-to-shore power capability.

Why ships? They don’t have great alternatives—the shipping industry is desperate to decarbonize. Hydrogen and ammonia are being explored, but come with serious downsides: low energy density, flammability, leaks, and massive infrastructure challenges. Fusion will provide a high-energy-density, long-range solution without the same infrastructure challenges—once it works, of course!

One common question is, why not fission? Fission works technically, but not practically. Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) could power ships, but licensing fission reactors on land is already brutally hard and expensive—doing it for vessels moving between international ports with enriched uranium is nearly impossible. Public perception is another major barrier: if we’re deploying thousands of nuclear reactors globally, they need to be meltdown-proof. Fusion is the only way to guarantee that. Regulation also isn’t as bad. While fusion won’t be a walk in the park to license, the NRC has declared a distinct framework for it—more like particle accelerators and hospitals than nuclear power plants. That’s a game-changer.

Instead of a 500+ MW grid-scale reactor, our system is 25 MWe, designed for ship propulsion. Our tokamak is roughly JET-sized, but with HTS magnets (8-9T) and higher plasma current (~10MA). The first-wall power flux is down from multi-MW/m² to nearly 500 kW/m²—still tough, but not nightmare mode. The materials challenges associated with the first wall and nuclear activation of the structures is greatly reduced. Also, ships don’t require 90% uptime like grid power plants. Downtime for maintenance is part of normal operations, making this a far more forgiving early application of fusion, unlike the grid where every down hour is lost revenue.

Jason and I come from SpaceX and Tesla, where we solved hard engineering problems at scale. My background is nuclear engineering (NC State, BS) and plasma physics (Columbia University, MS). We’ve been busy during our time in YC making technical progress on our reactor design, and are in the process of assembling a team of engineers who can pull this off.

This is a ridiculously hard problem, of course. But we think it’s the right hard problem—one that’s actually solvable (and worth solving!) with today’s tech if applied correctly. Eventually the cheaper and more robust SOAK and NOAK (second-of-a-kind and nth-of-a-kind) reactors will arrive in the coming decades (2050-2060) and then we'll pivot to decarbonising the grid and saving the world (we'll need to change our name), but until then we'll be out in the ocean!

Would love to hear your thoughts—whether you’re deep into plasma physics and engineering, skeptical-but–...

266 comments

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How much design on an actual reactor can you do already if the whole technology isn't even demonstrated yet? How many changes are you prepared to do based on the results of the current scientific reactors?
We can get pretty far along! From magnetic system design, vacuum vessel, RF heating system, cryogenic system, tritium fueling, etc we can start making a ton of progress today. The main things we still need to learn that can influence the design is advanced divertor scenarios and what are best material choices for plasma facing components (PFC's).
How certain is it that a tokamak is even able to be run in a stable manner? What if it turns out that a stellarator would be better? Or is that already validated by now?
The stellarator design makes more sense to me as well and speaking of it, those guys will build a stellarator on land:

https://www.proximafusion.com/press-news/proxima-fusion-and-...

Problems are still many, though (Paper:)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092037962...

Saw that this morning as well, it's awesome. I do think long term especially for grid applications stellarators could be great... note that their design is ~2.7GW I believe. We're talking gigantic traditional power plant size, which the world needs, but the first generation of these facilities will cost multi billions of dollars. Also with the stellarator, doing non planar HTS coils and the associated manufacturing challenge is a very very hard problem.
Well, definitely good luck with your approach as well!

I guess the biggest hurdle will be stable operation, without having to replace too many broken parts too often?

Tokamak requires regular shutdown as far as I understood and that is quite a lot of heat stress for all the parts I believe, along with the radiation etc.

(But I lack the background to really debate on the pro vs cons of tokamak vs stellarator, I just have opinions here)

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Why specifically target maritime? Getting a stationary reactor to 25MWe at all would be an incredible feat in itself.
True there would be other land based uses for a 25MWe fusion reactor, the thing is it will be quite expensive and hard to compete on $/kWh against other energy sources... it's easier to compete in maritime / there aren't as good alternatives.
It seems like if you can get the reactor working then you're floating right on top of all the fuel you could ever want, provided you're doing hydrogen fusion.
Mounting a fusion reactor (largely automated - these ships have a skeleton crew) on every big ship seems ambitious enough, why would you...sure, why not, package an automated deuterium fuel refinement facility in a box on the ship too. In another ten years you'll be getting them in Christmas crackers.
where can I read about fully-automated, ship-stable, ~zero maintenance deuterium sea-water extraction systems?
Fusion fuel is so compact, there's really no need for that. To get an idea of it, deuterium is less than 0.1% of the hydrogen in water, and there's enough in your morning shower to provide all your energy needs for a year.

Nuclear aircraft carriers go thirty years without refueling, and fusion could easily do the same.

> we’re focusing on large commercial shipping (>10,000 TEU) and mobile military vessels to provide ship-to-shore power capability

I can't tell for sure what this means, if it's propulsion or a temporary ship to shore power plant. I suppose this gives them the latitude to target both. Or perhaps the idea is to get exposure to maritime shipping investors.

A mobile power plant might be useful for deep sea mining, or meeting seasonal energy demands for major cities.

Unlike what the nuclear Navy does today which is directly mechanically link the steam turbine to the propeller... we have the turbine spin a generator that creates a high voltage electric bus, which can than power a motor for propulsion. But you can 'easily' swap out the motor and tap off that HV bus for any other electrical load. Agree with all those other potential applications for mobile power at sea, there's a ton! Even disaster relief after hurricanes sort of thing, if the grid goes down we sail over and support.
> nuclear Navy does today which is directly mechanically link the steam turbine to the propeller

Not exactly, but very close to true. As I hear, newest Virginia class of US submarines are planned to be all-electric, but rumors said, they are extremely expensive, so all currently commissioned ones have close to classic propulsion system.

Probably because on-land there are better way to get the same output and it doesn't require unproven technology.

Maritime makes sense from that point of view. However, this point of view ignores that fusion is hard for us right now.

I bet it's a case of someone not understading this field properly and thinking that just throwing money at it will solve everything.

Hot stuff. Both literally and figuratively. An energy breakthrough is really required to get the world back on track. My thesis is that the longer it takes for us to get on the fusion train the more craziness we will see in the world. Wish you all the best and will follow your journey.
> An energy breakthrough is really required to get the world back on track

Not really, the energy technologies we've needed have been around for about half a century, with quite reasonable economics (albeit less and less so, as the time pressure increases), especially compared to the alternative. The problems that need to be solved are political and economic, not technical.

> The problems that need to be solved are political and economic, not technical.

You're saying the technical problems involved in fusion power have already been solved. They haven't.

He's talking about problems with the world, not with fusion power. We don't need a magic bullet to make all our problems disappear, we just need to apply the resources we have in a consistent and correct manner.
> You're saying the technical problems involved in fusion power have already been solved

Nope, try reading it again.

Very cool. If you could also make a smaller one with ~3kw output that fits on a locomotive frame you'd literally have the entire freight rail industry the world over as customers.
Would you though? A lot of freight lines in europe are already electric, wouldn't it be much more efficient to have a stationary high-power reactor than carrying around a smaller one on each locomotive?
That might be balanced somewhat by not needing to maintain thousands of miles of caternary wire.
I think maintaining thousands of miles of wire and one large powerplant would be cheaper than maintaining thousands of small mobile reactors, but that's just speculation of course. And most of the wire has to already be there anyways for passenger transport, I think, because many rail lines are used by cargo and people. Unless every train should have a reactor?
Once we have cheap miniaturized fusion reactors, that work stable - we won't need so much electric wiring anymore, true.

Unfortunately, so far exactly 0 working fusion reactors have been build, so currently, I would not demolish electric lines just yet.

The underlying technology does not exist in a production form, to the extent that it's not clear which basic reactor design option is going to be the future. So we can't know what the maintenance burden from a fisson rector is, much less one mounted on a train. Don't plan on tearing down those overhead cables just yet.
In europe sure, in the US most of freight rail isn't and companies operating those rail roads don't want to spend money on eletrifying railroads.

Currently they're trying to gas light us that hydrogen-hybrid locomotives are the futures (why not use diesel-hybrid locomotives that already exist is a mistery)

trains in the US have electric motors that actually make the wheels turn.

The issue with the US is the distances trains have to go. Mostly short distance trains will be(are?) fully electric but long distance and frieght is diesel series hybrid engines.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my comment. I was talking about trains that can use grid or diesel engine to power those electric motors.

And hydrogen comment was about this: https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/articles/usdot-announc... . My tinfoil hat theory is that every carbon-fuel company pushing for hydrogen knowing well it's energy density isn't enough, so the experiment will fail, and they're going back to diesel saying that green tech isn't ready.

I'm still confused, but that's ok. I spoke to why we don't use electric trains in the US, because the distances are too far and the terrain is too varied. The rockies, the cascades, just to get imports from west to east. No matter what, the power plant will have to be on the freight trains in the US. In the US, all freight trains are electric series hybrids, with diesel power plants.

I doubt hydrogen will ever go, because people like me will say "Hindenburg, but already on the ground where it can do the most damage, plus moving at 50-80MPH"

I get that, but US freight doesn't want to eletrify railnetwork at all. From my understading this is because even where it's totatly doable, but financially not feasable for various reasons (IIRC one of them are double stacked containers?).
4.5MW of power for GE 6000 locomotive (might be incorrect but it comports with other comments here), and i routinely see freight trains with 3 or more locomotives (i've seen way more than 3, but i don't have a picture or anything). In the midwest, where it's flat, trains can be miles long. I've counted over 250 on a single train before. and that's 4+ locomotives, so >18,000,000 watts.

I guess they could keep freight trains real short so they're single engine, but that's still 4 and a half million watts stall. Each one can move itself plus at least 10,000 tonnes (i don't know the conversions, nor care, it's a lot of mass) The world record is 82,000 tonnes, 4.5 miles long, 682 cars, 8 locomotives - in Australia, with american locomotives, hauling iron ore.

I have to ask, are you from or in the US?

GE does make a battery powered locomotive, designed to be used for regenerative braking, it can run at full power by itself for a half hour or so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabtec_FLXDrive 3,200,000 watts.

3kW output? I think you mean 5MW output... large electric locomotives are in 2.5 to 3.5MW continuos power. Some diesel-electric huge ones are even larger, like 5MW.
Yeah must’ve meant MW.. I’ve got more than one 3KW generator at my house and they can barely run my AC much less a locomotive.
I think my induction hob is roughly 3kW. Why don't we all just put a nuclear reactor in our basement at that point? You people are all dreaming.
Why is that sounding like hydrogen trains all over again.

Radiation shielding scales poorly in the downwards direction.

If it's small enough to fit in every ship used in a carrier group, you could revolutionize US naval operations.

The carrier is nuclear powered and can travel at its top speed indefinitely. But it doesn't except briefly in emergencies, because the rest of the group is powered by oil and would quickly run out of fuel.

"First-wall power flux" - am I right in thinking that means the heat energy the innermost wall has to contain? Half a megawatt per square meter? Good lord. You're not making it out of 3/4" plywood then.

Maintenance isn't just about downtime though right? This is gonna have to be supported by your crews traveling globally with trade secret, exotic parts. Not even on the top ten hardest things about this of course.

It's an exciting bet for sure, so good luck - if it works, you're taking a big bite out of a really nasty carbon source.

How about first getting fusion to work for reality before getting it working for maritime.
Really excited about this! Congrats on the launch. Ships make sense as a first target, but I'm curious -- do you see a future in which we have household fission reactors? E.G. power an entire house (city block, etc...) with fission reactors?
Thank you! Household fission reactors: my take is that from a technical perspective we could definitely do it. It's more from a proliferation and nuclear waste perspective, will it be allowed and accepted by the public? Not sure, maybe though.
If that's a concern, how do you solve that for shipping? What if some somali pirate steals your fusion ship? Would they have to have armed protection (on top of the guards they already have, that's probably not enough when nuclear proliferation is the issue)?
With fusion, there is no Uranium or Plutonium or highly radioactive materials. The main concern is Tritium which is a categorically reduced concern from enriched Uranium (but still needs to be secured and accounted for).
why do we continue to discount solar and batteries for home use?
The argument that I've heard is that roof installed solar is incredibly expensive compared to all other solar. Add in the other compromises with orientation and obstructed sunlight, and you quickly realize that it is likely better to install solar and batteries at dedicated power facilities that scale better than to distribute the infrastructure in residential neighborhoods.
> “focusing on military vessels … [we] come from SpaceX and Tesla”

So you guys are basically part of the MAGA military complex? Why do you need YC?

Is funding your moonshot concept a way for YC to signal something politically?

Nothing to do with the hot news of the moment. It's just YC doing what it always does.

I think there is probably some kind of headline bleedover effect where, because of repetition, we start seeing these things everywhere, like the afterimage of a bright light.

I think the point being made is more subtle than you're appreciating: it's not just any defense firm, it's a defense firm founded by engineers who have worked on multiple Elon projects. I understand we try to stay away from politics here, but speaking objectively+non-normatively: Elon has been known to greatly favor working with people that have worked at his companies, and he now has immense influence over the contracting processing of the federal government.

In other words: two Cybertruck engineers starting a defense company in February 2025 is naturally going to raise some eyebrows, especially when they're selling a technology that they're counting on other people to invent soon.

More interestingly/generally, your mention of confirmation bias/Bader-Meinhoff raises a question for me: is Y-Combinator really investing more in government and heavy industry as it appears? And it looks like the answer is yes, though it's still a tiny minority compared to general B2B SaaS companies:

https://jaredheyman.medium.com/on-the-last-decade-of-y-combi...

Government is a bigger slicer than it's been since 2017, and similar for industry. More drastically, the pool of companies has greatly constricted in geographic terms, with almost all of the 2024 batch coming from the US. Most importantly--as many of y'all probably already know, but I didn't--they just backed their first pure-defense startup in August, Ares Cruise Missiles.

https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/ares-industries

As far as company mottos go, "Missiles are cool" is a fucking terrifying one... Every day I fear the LessWrong people were less wrong than I thought they were.

You guys are welcome to connect whatever dots you like, but the idea that YC funding decisions would change depending on the politics of the CEOs of the companies the founders used to work for strikes me as absurd, and I think I have a basis for saying that.

YC's process looks something like this: smart founders? check. Technical? check. Big important problem? check. Technically credible on this problem? check. "Did $Thing at $Company" can help on that last point for obvious reasons, but the idea of some triple-bank-shot collusion/corruption with Big Political Players is Too Much Internet.

This matters! I would hate it if any smart, technical, wants-to-work-on-big-problem founder were to read HN threads and think "I don't have connections, so I guess YC is not for me." Please don't anyone think that! If that's you, then YC is for people just like you. You have as good a chance as anyone, precisely because these externalities don't make the difference.

To shift gears to your other question:

> is Y-Combinator really investing more in government and heavy industry as it appears?

I don't know, but it's possible. However, the reason might not be what you'd expect. Trends among YC startups have to do with what founders want to work on, and that is mostly determined by macro factors beyond YC.

I suppose both my points could be summed up like this: "YC is all about the founders". A nice, simple, true sentence, but with a lot of implications that are easy to miss.

Excellent initiative. From the 1st reading, it does seem "within the realms of current technology". All the best.

I have a small question. Which CAD / 3D / Physics software is used for such design and simulations ?

Thank you! We're probably going to have to eventually use every engineering software in existence haha for CAD, mainly solidworks and CATIA, for EM Physics modeling: COMSOL. But most of the analysis is done with specialized plasma physics and radiation transport codes like MCNP or Open MC.
What kind of a blanket are you using and how thick is it? Seems like that would be the determining factor for size and cost.
Whether solid or liquid blankets, these guys seem clueless. How about the neutron shield? Gonna breed tritium as well? How long do they suspect reactor components can last w/o all the heat and neutron radiation?
So your approach to fusion is "the same CFS but stay at roughly the size of the SPARC prototype instead of scaling up"?

When you say "Q > 1 within a few (say 3) years" are you talking about your own reactors, or others? For that matter, are you trying to partner with CFS and license their technology or are you intending on starting "from scratch" (from whatever is publicly available)?

If that timeline is for fusion in general, what do you think your timeline looks like? Assuming adequate access to funding how soon can you build a Q>1 reactor? How soon after that can you actually go to market and sell a reactor?

---

On an unrelated note, I'm curious what you think of the current approaches to commercial fusion being attempted. Are Tokamaks the only game in town in your mind? Or do the various other approaches also being tried out right now have a good shot (MIF/Zpinches/etc)? Any particular approaches you think are particularly likely to succeed.

This being ycombinator and a startup I'm obligated to say that I don't ask this question because I think it impacts your commercial viability much, the greatest risks in fusion definitely aren't the competitors. I ask it just because I'm curious what people willing to start a fusion company think of the competitors.

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Ships make a ton of sense to me as an early market. An 11 figure market (according to my own napkin calculations awhile back) where power is much more expensive than on land. At the same time it's never struck me that the hardest part of building a fusion company is finding a market.

Our device is larger than SPARC (~3m major radius) and less power (100MW fusion), hence the confidence in being able to solve the steady-state (repeated inductive pulses) engineering challenges.

We won’t be the first to Q>1, I’m super excited for SPARC to achieve that and will be prepared with champagne.

We’re targeting early 2030’s for our reactor, we’re going straight for the full thing no sub scale reactor in between (we do have a plan for milestone-ing it out in a meaningful way)

I’ve worked on a few alternative approaches earlier in my career (FRC at Princeton, dense plasma focus at LPP Fusion) … I think all fusion approaches are worth looking at, but I’m placing my chips on the tokamak. If I were to pick a runner up, the stellerator.

If you are fantasizing the implementation of an imaginary future technology, why not fusion power for SPACE ships?
Because nobody predict so large grow of space industry, which could make fusion profitable.

Second problem, for space weight is so expensive, that it made fission viable, and solve proliferation problem (very little risk, somebody will steal materials from Moon or beyond).

You still need somewhere for the heat to go, and that's a lot easier if you're on top of water instead of nothing.

Although, a good radiator on a spacecraft still seems trivially easy compared to having a working fusion reactor in the first place.

(comment deleted)
YC26 featuring Mokkatok - fusion for third wave coffee shops. You heard it here first
"Downtime for maintenance is part of normal operations, making this a far more forgiving early application of fusion, unlike the grid where every down hour is lost revenue."

Planned maintenance, sure, but unplanned maintenance means the same lost revenue, plus you're stuck floating in the middle of the pacific ocean, possibly in need of parts or debugging expertise that only exists half a planet away or, for that matter, food. It's certainly a good idea to find a niche to make market entry easier, but I would guess that reliability requirements are actually higher for ships than for microgrids. Find some isolated town or island running off flaky diesel generators on shipped-in fuel and negotiate a reasonable SLA.

This ignores, of course, the bigger problem: making fusion work at all at Q > 1. If it were me, I'd work on solving that before worrying too much about optimizing market entry. So far every single fusion effort has failed to clear that hurdle, and any effort on the other parts is wasted if you can't actually make power.

The first ocean-going steamships still had sails - it took many years for steam power to fully displace sail. Presumably a new maritime power system, like fusion, would follow a similar pattern.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat#Sea-_and_Ocean-going

There is something very compelling about a fusion-powered ship also having sails.
Let's be realistic, it would have a diesel engine as a plan B.

But if you like sails: my pet hypothetical technology is wind-driven hydrogen tankers (or tankers for some other e-fuel derived from hydrogen) that sail out empty, then cruise around wherever there is plenty of wind. They'd have a turbine/generator setup driven by the water passing by and use the energy harvested there for filling the tank. Cruise around as long as it takes to nearly fill the tank then return to port (and fill the rest on the way back). There's a lot of oceans where systems like that could cruise around on. (same concept could also be used for desalonation, there it would not only be about energy but also about avoiding local brine concentrations)

Interesting concept. Let's run the numbers...

The largest Q-Max-class gas tanker is 345 meters long [1]. Let's say you manage to fit 3 giant Siemens wind turbines on it, with 100m long blades [2]. It's a bit cramped but let's say you have extenders on the side to make room for all 3 of them. And also let's say you found a way to prevent the ship from tipping over when the wind is strong. By deploying floaters on the side or whatever. Not unsurmountable.

Each of those wind turbine has a rated power of 14.7 MW [2]. Let's say that you found a place where the wind blows super strong (but not too strong) and steady all the time. It's possible, since you are a mobile ship, after all. Let's say that you have a way for the ship to keep in the same place despite the strong and steady wind pushing you constantly. Using engines is going to lower your efficiency, so let's say we found another way.

So, now your ship is generating 45MW constantly. According to ChatGPT, this is 32 kg of hydrogen per second, taking hydrolysis losses into account.

Tanker capacity is 18 620 000 kg of liquid hydrogen. It will take 581 000 seconds to fill up. 9697 minutes, 161 hours, or 6.7 days. Much shorter than I thought... Did I miss something?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-Max [2] https://www.offshorewind.biz/2024/04/22/first-siemens-gamesa...

It strikes me that having the turbine and hydrolysis plant fixed in place, and having ships visit those sites to refuel, is probably an easier setup than mobile turbines.

But I think your maths is wrong somewhere. Hydrogen supplies 33MWh/tonne, and you've stated the ship capacity as 18620 tonnes. 18620/(33*24) gives a generation time of 23 days, even before we allow for hydrolysis overheads.

Marine hydrogen isn't a terrible idea though. Tank weight and bulk is prohibitive for aviation, but less so for shipping.

Ugh, turns out I suck at math too. At least attempting it before coffee.

The ship's capacity in MWh is 18620t x 33MWh/t = 614460MWh.

At 45MW generating capacity, an electric hydrolyser at 80% efficiency delivers hydrogen at a rate of 36MW. That will unfortunately take about 70 years to fill the ship to its maximum capacity.

On a more positive note, 36MW is still a heck of a lot of power, plenty enough to run a mid-sized cruise liner or warship. So a marine generating station with three of these turbines could, for example, refuel a liner once a month, and then that liner have enough fuel to cruise for a month, and so on.

This would require a fuel tank with a more reasonable 750 tonne capacity. That's still several times more than the Shuttle, but not beyond the realms of feasibility - and a stronger, heavier tank allows higher pressures / smaller volumes.

I am totally mesmerized by the idea of a floating hydrolizing platform , where ships can dock and load hydrogen fuel ( not sure what form suits best ).

Must start some economics of it. Also marine environment is very unforgiving...

It is. But if we can handle maritime oil and gas rigs, which load/unload to tankers, hydrogen isn't MUCH worse.

It wouldn't be floating exactly though. Moored and piled into the sea bed, sitting above the waves like rigs and wind turbines.

Platforms are does-not-scale hard though: they require mooring and every bit of ocean floor is different. Drilling platforms come in multiple "species", as different as spiders, fish and birds. Roaming hydrolysers on the other hand would be one design fits any ocean. You'd want to build lots of them, more Model T than Death Star. And where a stationary platform would have to be able to brace a hurricane, the roaming unit would just go to a neighboring sea with a friendlier forecast. Or ride along on the edge, if power throughput has enough headroom.
There are only so many windy places to affix turbines to. There's a lot of ocean to cruise on.

The mobile hydrolyser (not a boat to solve shipping in a quasi perpetuum mobile away, but an energy harvester that focuses on just that) would solve mooring: the "lateral lift" of the boat would take care of that, just how your plain old America's Cup boat isn't just slowly dragged downwind. It would solve linkup: a serious cost component in not all too conveniently located off shore wind installations is the grid connection. And it would solve intermittency: hydrogen is inconvenient compared to hydrocarbons, but it's super convenient compared to getting even more electricity at a time demand on your grid is already satisfied to saturation.

(GP's math is likely wrong, but the assumption that you could somehow cram multiple turbines from the bigger end of market offerings on a boat and call it a day seems so far off to me that I never really looked at the numbers)

You have it reverse wind turbines need mooring, stay upright and so on. That's highly impractical. No, you build a fast-going sail vessel (using big traction kites, because it's not the 19th century anymore) and power the generator from much smaller turbine blades in the water. Hydrogenerator is the term established in recreational boating.

I sure would not expect any returns in days, more like months or years. But if we (humanity) could just solve the purely man-made problem of piracy (or would it technically be salvage?), I believe that a robotic fleet of cruising hydrogenerators could be a huge contribution to our energy needs.

The main issue is that prevailing winds have a direction, and there's not a continuous open ocean path other than the Southern Ocean which is harsh even by the standards of oceans. Sure you can steer along trade winds in the Atlantic or Pacific but there's quite some efficiency loss.

(Give climate change another decade or so and the Arctic Ocean maybe becomes an option, although by then we'll have bigger fish to fry, or perhaps poach).

Sailing technology has gone beyond "we can go downwind, yay!" for quite a while now...
Certainly of course, but not while delivering maximum continuous energy from a kite to a turbine.
Boats go considerably faster, as in overcoming more water drag, going crosswind than going downwind. I suppose that adding extra drag with a hydrogenerator will change the maths of that relationship, but certainly not so much that it would be prohibitively wasteful to not specialize a hydrogenerator carrier to downwind-only. (if the downwind-only setup can be competitive at all, not sure I'd take that as a given)
Or bunker oil.

But yes, fuel-based powerplant, likely as part of a hybrid drive running electric motors powering propellers themselves.

Marine propulsion is already pretty optimised for efficiency (turn on engine, set to cruise power, maintain for 14 days, little acceleration, starts, stops, and/or hills), so a hybrid setup would work pretty effectively.

The far greater challenges are Q>1 and reliable fusion within a ship's structure.

sails on modern cargo ships is a thing (see pyxis ocean)
> and we believe we’ll witness Q > 1 within a few (say 3) years. That’s huge.

I think it fits squarely in the "requires extraordinary evidence" bucket - what makes you so bold ?

Also, what's you intermediate plans between :

2025 -> Post on HN

2028 -> Q>1 achieved (by you ? by someone else ?)

???? -> ????

20xx -> a ship goes to sea powered by a fusion reactor

???? -> ????

2060 -> fusion is so easy, let's use it for baseload

Sorry if I sound stark, but I'm already burnt out and fed up with the "breakthroughs" on batteries that never materialize - I have a very low tolerance threshold for startups promising fusion for next week ;)

If you're on to something, more power to you - we need that yesterday.

The HN battery checklist needs to be reworked for fusion power. Arguably, even though people think it’s trolling to use the checklist, I’ve found it surprisingly educational each time.
Sounds interesting, could you post that checklist?
This one I presume:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear battery technology claimant,

Thank you for your submission of proposed new revolutionary battery technology. Your new technology claims to be superior to existing lithium-ion technology and is just around the corner from taking over the world. Unfortunately your technology will likely fail, because:

[ ] it is impractical to manufacture at scale.

[ ] it will be too expensive for users.

[ ] it suffers from too few recharge cycles.

[ ] it is incapable of delivering current at sufficient levels.

[ ] it lacks thermal stability at low or high temperatures.

[ ] it lacks the energy density to make it sufficiently portable.

[ ] it has too short of a lifetime.

[ ] its charge rate is too slow.

[ ] its materials are too toxic.

[ ] it is too likely to catch fire or explode.

[ ] it is too minimal of a step forward for anybody to care.

[ ] this was already done 20 years ago and didn't work then.

[ ] by this time it ships li-ion advances will match it.

[ ] your claims are lies

> Your new technology claims to be superior to existing lithium-ion technology and is just around the corner from taking over the world.

As a corroboration, current hotness in cell phones is existing lithium ion tech with new silicon-carbon anodes.

And one for fusion

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Dear Nuclear Fusion Power Claimant

Thank you for your submission of proposed new revolutionary nuclear fusion power technology. Your new technology claims to solve humanity's energy problems, produce unlimited clean energy, and is just months away from commercialization. Unfortunately, your technology will likely fail, because:

[ ] it requires materials that cannot be produced at any scale.

[ ] its energy gain (Q factor) is still substantially less than 1.

[ ] its plasma instabilities modes are completely unknown.

[ ] its plasma modeling behavior relies exclusively on numerical simulations.

[ ] it cannot sustain required plasma confinement criteria

[ ] it cannot handle the neutron flux without rapid degradation of components.

[ ] it requires magnetic fields stronger than currently achievable

[ ] it consumes more energy in cooling systems than it produces.

[ ] your claimed breakthrough violates fundamental physics.

[ ] the same approach was tried in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and abandoned each time for good reason

[ ] by the time it ships, renewable energy plus storage will be far cheaper.

[ ] your timeline has been "5 years away" for the past 50 years.

[ ] your claims are lies.

Sincerely, The Energy Research Community

Also, what's you intermediate plans between :

2025 -> Post on HN

2028 -> Q>1 achieved (by you ? by someone else ?)

CFS plans Q>1 for 2027 with a tokamak design. If they succeed then there will be plenty of VC for similar designs. I'd place my bets that CFS succeeds with Q>1. And I think the real problem will be the energy flux and neutron handling and thus much more a material sciences problem than a plasma physics problem. Thus the idea to look for a niche that has lower power needs is a very clever one. My bet would be rather on Maritime Fusion than Helion. But nevertheless, CFS will be likely first at Q>1 however there is always space for another competitor.

Let's also be really explicit... CFS is targeting Q>1 by 2027 for nuclear fusion via the SPARC reactor, but not Q>1 for electrical generation. The latter is slated for sometime in the early 2030s via the subsequent ARC reactor.

All of this is driven by HTS. Fusion reactors (generically) scale to the inverse^4 of magnetic field strength. HTS doubled the achievable magnetic field strength of electromagnets, which means that ITER-like performance can be achieved in university-scale reactors at comercially-viable, lower costs.

Dr. Dennis Whyte (MIT Nuclear Eng Prof) gave a great seminar at Berkeley that covered some technical nuances. It's mandatory watching if you want to geek out and understand the fusion hype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY6U4wB-oYM

> that ITER-like performance can be achieved in university-scale reactors at comercially-viable, lower costs

Are they going to upgrade it or it’s already obsolete before it was even finished?

“Obsolete” probably isn’t the right word but they’re continuing as usual on ITER.. they’re aiming for 5.5T compared to >9T field strength on ARC. There’s still a ton of science to be learned, so it makes sense to keep pushing ahead but it’s clear any eventual commercial design will use HTS magnets instead of the NbSn ones in ITER.
I'd be ready to bet that the boring, international, big gouvernement funded ITER will be the only place to reach anything meaningful, long before the hip VC-backed startups ship anything.

Source : I generally don't believe VC-backup startups anymore, but that says more about me than about them (thankfully, sometimes they do stuff, like, 140 chars and useful tools for Russian trolls.)

But let's see how it goes !

Do you believe MIT? They used to run the Alcator C-Mod, which had the highest magnetic field of any tokamak in the world, did preliminary work with the new superconductors, and based on all that they designed ARC before they spun off a company to actually build it.
I'll believe whoever first powers a light bulb from fusion.

I can completely imagine that it goes through stages like

Half a century of painful research at universities -> decades to build multiple prototypes -> years to build a POC -> decades to industrialize the POC -> years to connect the POC to the grid -> ???? -> light bulb moment -> ???? -> profit

I'm not sure we much further than the beginning of step 2. Indeed, (sorry to say that), I'd trust an MIT startup to do that more than a YC startup. But real life will serve as evidence.

Is that QPlasma>1 or QTotal>1?
Batteries are steadily improving, at least in the cost factor. We haven't seen any 2x leaps in density from sulfur or solid state or aluminum air.

But LFP and Sodium Ion are making undeniable progress in cheap usable EV batteries that don't require nickel or cobalt.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the relevance here. Incremental advances in battery tech (or even futuristic step-change prospects like lithium-air batteries) won't solve intercontinental shipping.
> cheap usable EV batteries

I know this is going to sound harsh, but I will personnally consider EV batteries "cheap" only when they pass the very scientific "my mom can use the EV exactly like shes uses her car, and she does not notice" test:

* on one charge, drive 10-50km daily for 350 days in a year

* on one charge, drive 1000km in one go for the holidays

* it must be less than 10kE at a local car dealership

* it can be plugged in your garage

* if you forgot to charge it, you can stop every 10km to recharge in 10m

I know: "it's harsh" ! "We should change our car usage" ! "My mom should live differently to accomodate the technology", etc... Go tell that to my mom.

Still, that's the goal post I've been having for 20y, and 10y ago people where writing headlines about "breakthroughs" that would make this possible any time now. And it's not. So I'm burnt out, kinda.

If you fix your goalposts for long enough, cohort effects will move around them.

I'm not sure how old your mom is, but 1000km drives aren't something most people want to be doing past 75 ish. And newer cohorts adapt their lifestyles and expectations to available technology, whether that's charging time, on-demand rental for the occasionally needed longer distance EVs, and so on.

Although I can't help thinking that hybrids are a better fit for this common usage pattern - given a choice between hauling the dead weight of a rarely-used gasoline engine, or the dead weight of the 80% of battery capacity you hardly ever use, the gas engine is cheaper and less demanding of rare metals.

It's a shame that weight considerations mean "rent 80% extra range in a removable module for occasional use" isn't a practical option. You could almost have a 10kWh/50km light EV with a gasoline generator or extra battery in a hitch trailer, but the trade-offs don't quite work.

> And newer cohorts adapt their lifestyles and expectations to available technology, whether that's charging time, on-demand rental for the occasionally needed longer distance EVs, and so on.

Alternatively, they will keep living their life exactly the way they have so far, and refuse to use the "new" technology until it has caught up with the "old" one.

"Regulations" could in theory help, if it served as enough of an incentive for car makers to pay some serious R&D and get the "new" tech on par with the old one.

Problem is, in practice, though, the option to "not care about the regulation and elect right wing people until it's dropped" is easier than paying chemist and physicists.

And selling my mom a 2t SUV is much better for the shareholders.

So, never mind. At some point, one "game changing revolutionary breakthrough" will actually break through something and change some game.

Or, my mum will die of old age, bitching about those stupid pseudo "cars" that their grand kids can't use to visit her because the battery is too small.

(No, wait, HN tells my mum will actually not die, thanks to some "game changing AI-powered breakthrough in biotech")

As it applies to shipping, I'm curious to know if you initially considered alternative/hybrid approaches which would augment current/modern approaches to shipping, like using sails. It seems to me like this is an obvious miss in modern (dirty) shipping.
There are other companies doing exactly this (for a random example: https://www.bartechnologies.uk/), but they definitely don't replace the need for engines entirely, just reduce their usage by a bit.

Not sure why you would expect a fusion company to have anything to do with this. The technology is completely different.

(Note: not affiliated with launching company, just a random commenter)

Congrats on launching. This is a hard area. Wish you luck.
so, given no one knows how to use fusion to produce energy, why do you think now is the time to plan how to put this non-existent technology on to boats?
now, this is a thing that I want to see YC invest more into
What would the engine with this look like? Does it cause a lot of noise or any other damage to sea life?
What is the feedback from actual prospective clients?

Did YC ask mostly about feasibility, or were they more interested in the customer's opinion?

The customers are interested, there's really no slam dunk other way to decarbonize the industry, it's a super hard (and expensive) problem.
Re Q>1, isn't that just the reaction making more power as heat than you put in and you need something like Q>5 to use the heat to make steam to make electricity to run the thing? (as in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_energy_gain_factor)
Correct. Energy generation >1 is targeted for 2030. So it fits "fusion is 5 years away" trope.
Fusion used to always be 30 years away, more recently 15 years.
Less science personal company has, shorter the due date.