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Ask HN: How to get my blackhat child on the straight and narrow?

6 points by itsdrewmiller ↗ HN
One of my sons is interested in hacking and hacking-adjacent technology - he maintains a popular list of proxies that circumvent his school network, and his favorite possession is his flipper zero which he's been watching youtube videos on and keeps trying new types of interactions with it. He's gotten in trouble before for using some kind of tool to crash in-class kahoot, and most recently he took his flipper out into the neighborhood and tried to mess with the ring doorbells of strangers. I really enjoy the creativity, ingenuity, and entrepreneurial spirit he brings to these activities, but right now it seems like he's on a path that is going to get him expelled and/or arrested. Does anyone else have experience with kids like this, and did anything work to get them back on track without destroying their love of technology? I'm worried coming down too hard will just move this behavior into the shadows rather than eliminating it.

7 comments

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toomuchtodo
Do you have any local cyber groups (BSides or similar) you could bring them to and find a mentor for them? They need combined investment from you and a practitioner, and you're trying to do your part. Broadly speaking, you want to help them channel the drive and talent into something productive and legal, where they will be rewarded and validated in a healthy way.
itsdrewmiller
Looks like there is a BSides in Baltimore in a couple of weeks - I will check it out, thanks!
x86hacker1010
Finding a mentor, getting him to meet professionals and showing him the way of white hat is probably good.

My parents didn’t understand my obsession for computers at a young age and I also went down a fairly black hat learning route.

I suggest you inform him via the likes of DEFCON, support groups, local hacker spaces. It’s easy to go down a wrong path in this field.

morkalork
You make more money and have better career prospects on the straight and narrow. My circle of friends in highschool were a bunch of script kiddies and had lots of fun trolling people, stores, businesses with dumb hijinks in the late 2000s. The ones that went to university and pursued engineering degrees are happy, have families and are content to hack around on home automation and drones with their spare cash. The ones that went too deep into the black-hat world are divorced, can't hold down an apartment, let alone a stable job. Have been swatted (instigated by rivals), have been raided (actually got caught with their hand in the cookie jar), had all their electronics confiscated (the government does not like hacktivism!) and are failures in life. Sure, ripping off CC numbers from a business with a shitty PHP storefront website is exciting, but it's a bitch to cash out on. And its very inconsistent work, like feast-or-famine, which is shitty for things like paying rent and bills. It's just not worth the risk, especially for internet fame.

Edit: I would suggest getting them involved in positive activities that scratch that itch. Does their school have a robotics team? Can you buy them a kit for building a DIY FPV drone? Got any projects of your own they can help you with? Are there any local competitions you can get them in? (Math, drone racing etc.)

robocat
> The ones that went too deep into the black-hat world are divorced, can't hold down an apartment, let alone a stable job. Have been swatted, raided, electronics confiscated, and are failures in life

Can you share your opinion on whether (A) its a moral choice, or (B) there's a selection process for going to uni and choosing a normal life or (C) all people that try blackhat end up with deeply shitty outcomes, or (D) make a suggestion for outcome cause.

It isn't clear what influence is needed to help someone avoid the shitty outcomes.

morkalork
I don't believe it's a moral choice, rather I would chalk it up to a lack of impulse/self control that causes the negative outcomes in every dimension. Could they have gone to university? Yeah, they were smart but they weren't interested in school work so that door closed on them fast. That's the self-control.

I can't say if what I witnessed in my friend group generalizes, for every burnout hacker there could be 10x as many who are wildly successful and are never caught. By definition we'd never know how many there are.

I guess an equivalent question is: My son is learning to drive, and he's discovered that speeding and driving on the edge, maybe even recklessly, is fun. How do I get them to straighten out before they do something stupid like street racing, or driving under the influence, and getting into an accident or arrested? Same answer: self control and impulse control.

sherdil2022
Have a chat with him on what motivates him. Is he seeking attention, approval or is he generally curious about understanding and breaking things?

As others have mentioned, things are better when he is on the straight and narrow. If he doesn’t want to work for a company, he can work for himself and consult / sell his expertise for companies that are willing to pay top dollar for finding serious securirty issues in their products and services.

Finding a mentor (as has been mentioned) will go a long way. Someone that had been trouble for himself and others - but decided to go on the straight and narrow - and basically provide and educate with various choices and consequences (both good and bad).