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Ask HN: Would most managers today fire Steve Jobs?

2 points by diminium ↗ HN
I've been reading Steve Jobs bio. The way he acted, dressed, managed, though of ideas. It seems like a typical manager in a typical company would have fired him. The main guy he worked for, Alan Acorn was not a typical manager.

If my premise is true and most managers would have fired Steve Jobs instead of working with him, what does that say about most managers? If this is the case, how do we make sure this doesn't happen to us and our companies?

11 comments

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tokenizer
That most managers are average and of average intelligence. That they succeed in their jobs by suppressing change and resisting difference of opinions.

We can't make sure this doesn't happen. It's a manager's job to manage human resources and ensure productivity. Once this becomes a numbers game, all cards are on the table.

I would even say that this isn't even the manager's fault, but the bottom line. Risk is something that sounds scary to people who want a consistent paycheck.

It has nothing to do about Steve Jobs being amazing or whatever, and everything to do about corporate culture as far as him getting fired would be concerned.

diminium
What do you think corporate culture tries to accomplish?

If it was money, firing Steve Jobs would have been the worst mistake any company would have made. Apple is worth a lot more then most other companies combined.

It doesn't sound like corporate cultures are after money.

"I would even say that this isn't even the manager's fault, but the bottom line. Risk is something that sounds scary to people who want a consistent paycheck."

This sounds like an interesting point. Do you think most corporate cultures are designed to create a "stable" atmosphere where the next day is fairly predictable?

tokenizer
Absolutely when it comes to big companies. I'd also like to imagine that Steve would have potentially gotten fired before making any heads spin with his decisions/design achievements.

I'd say that Steve Jobs created an interesting atmosphere/culture for a company more than anything, and that if he was just a rank and file employee, would never had the chance for this.

smparkes
Suppose it's a bit off-topic, but would Steve have fired Steve? I suppose the less interesting but more likely answer is he wouldn't have worked for himself.
diminium
From what I've read from the book, it looks like Steve would have loved to have another Steve in the company. I think he would have liked someone who thought the same way he did.
smparkes
Steve was very mercurial: at one point, he would think someone a saint and at another a devil, and visa versa. I could see that pattern be very explosive in dealing with someone like himself.
taligent
Steve wouldn't have fired Steve after all there are plenty of mini-Steves at Apple right now e.g. Scott Forstall, Eddy Cue.

He respected people that were strong enough to stand up for what they believed in.

creativename
The only reason it worked for Steve Jobs is that he was Steve Jobs. Almost every other person with that attitude would be, and arguably should be, fired (or at least talked to seriously about it). Someone like that would be extremely detrimental in a team environment. Except in the case where someone truly has demonstrated that their decisions and opinions are genius, most of his behavior would simply not be tolerable. Would you really want to work with someone like that?

It's even called out in the biography (I forget if it's a quote or a comment by the author) that he probably could have been just as effective without being as abrasive.

taligent
I personally would love to work with people like that and thousands of other people wanted to as well. Remember the apt quote, "A grade people hire A grade people, B Grade people hire C grade people".

The fact is that A grade people understand that in order to be A grade you have to be passionate, dedicated, committed and have strong convictions. Very few people can have those qualities without coming across as arrogant, non team oriented or abrasive.

creativename
I think it's one thing to be passionate, and another to tell people that work for you that their work is "shit". It might be one thing to say that to a good friend of yours, but if you constantly tell your employees that, they're just going to think that you're an asshole and it's probably going to be very detrimental to morale.

The OP's point was that he would have been fired for the way he acted, not his abilities. Of course we would all love to work with passionate, talented people, but just because someone has those qualities it doesn't mean you can ignore how they interact with others.

To your point, it's hard to have (and demonstrate) these qualities without coming off as abrasive.

trueneverland
This comment is like a double edge sword. The problem with "someone truly has demonstrated that their decisions and opinions are genius" is that often it never gets the chance to go that far. This is especially true for non-technical guys. And if I had to make a bet, while Steve understood technology, he probably couldn't actually code it himself. Putting others in that position in the modern day without a track record, and even if they were genuinely a genius in decision making, the likelihood of them being shut down by upper management, biases that exist, and several other things make the scenario bleak.