It has a base range of 150 miles [0], which won't resolve range anxiety worries as the average American travels 42 miles a day [1] and only has 2 seats. I think it will do well for hobbyists and EV enthusiasts, but it would be hard to compete with a slightly pricier Tacoma. When people buy a pickup truck, they often use it as a daily commuter as well.
> Got a road trip planned? These trips are all doable on a single charge of our standard battery. If you want to go even farther, our extended range battery increases the range to a projected 240 miles from a projected 150 miles. [0]
Edit: The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Spending $20,000 on a 2 seater bench pickup with 150mi range is ludicrous when you can buy a used 5 seater Honda Fit or Toyota Tacoma for $0-7k more.
This is most likely targeted at fleet usecases like a factory or local deliveries, but this won't make a dent in the primary demographic that purchases pickups, and being overly defensive is doing no favors in thinking about HOW to build a true killer app EV for the American market.
The thing about range: it’s always reducing (as the batteries age). And then it also reduces based on factors like temperature. The anxiety is solely from the not knowing.
Yep, and it's something that Slate's marketing doesn't directly address. Before Tesla's brand perception meltdown due to Elon, a major reason why Tesla was much more popular than other brands was because of the Supercharger network, which helped reduce range anxiety worries in the West Coast.
> a major reason why Tesla was much more popular than other brands was because of the Supercharger network, which helped reduce range anxiety worries in the West Coast.
Can't basically every other brand use those now? Between the compatible Tesla chargers and all the other ones through Charge America and charging overnight at home, there is no concern from a daily driving, or even moderately ranged trip, standpoint. The downside to long trips is the 30+ minute wait at each charging stop, not the lack of chargers.
While there are enough charges to make the trip they are not as common as gas stations and often not in visible locations. You can't just drive until the light goes on and then stop at the next exit like a gas car.
>While there are enough charges to make the trip they are not as common as gas stations and often not in visible locations.
Sure but everyone with an EV has an app that tells them where they are and helps with route planning.
>You can't just drive until the light goes on and then stop at the next exit like a gas car.
You nearly can. Most ICE cars turn the light on at 50 miles. Other than maybe the middle of the desert, there is going to be a charger within 50 miles.
Using an app while driving is dangerious. Most places illegal as well. The charger will be within 50 miles but you won't find it without the app which means annoying. And if you forgot your phone you are in trouble.
All true but totally irrelevant. I wouldn't get this to make a cross-country trip, but I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
Not really. The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Not have 4 seats AND having a lower range makes it a niche vehicle from a consumer sales perspective.
This is most likely being targeted at fleets, which tend to have a local presence and don't have the consumer usecase attached.
> I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
You're a software engineer in the Bay Area. You were never the target demographic for pickup truck sales, but you would in fact be a target demo for a product like a Slate Truck.
The person you're replying to shares their perspective about why they think your complaints are irrelevant to them. You can't "not really" someone's lived experience. Well you can, but it sounds smug and out of touch.
> Not have 4 seats AND having a lower range makes it a niche vehicle from a consumer sales perspective.
The base model only has two seats. The article explicitly states there will be an SUV conversion kit that you can purchase and install at home. There will also be an extended battery available. It's a very customizable vehicle.
> Not have 4 seats AND having a lower range makes it a niche vehicle from a consumer sales perspective.
In the Bay Area alone, that's huge. A cheap electric 2-seater that can get you into the HOV lanes? Yes please! Who cares if it happens to be truck-shaped. Squint and pretend it's an Electric Camino.
> You're a software engineer in the Bay Area.
...who grew up in the Midwest, learned to drive in a 1970 Chevy Custom with 3-on-the-tree, spent many adult years on the Great Plains, and who happens to live in the Bay Area now.
I am no stranger to trucks.
There are a million things I could use a pickup for today, especially for that price.
Disagree. I would buy this as a secondary vehicle for in-city needs, not for road trips. I've been thinking about getting a second car to complement our Kia EV6, but don't want to spend a ton.
> It has a base range of 150 miles [0], which won't resolve range anxiety worries as the average American travels 42 miles a day [1]
What am I missing here? Charge at home and you’ll easily do those 42 miles every day surely?
Especially since your other point said these would be aimed at those outside of cities and those people will presumably have parking/charging at their home.
Average need not beethe target. There are large niches that don't need as much. Many work trucks never go on road trips. Are those niches big enough is a question.
I was thinking; hey, these remind me of Bollingers, which is the only electric vehicle I'm interested in, not for its features, but for the absence of them.
Very exciting! Electric vehicles have the ability to be very simple, much simpler than an ICE.
Although electric can't be 100% analog, I miss the old days when a car has no software updates, no telemetry, no privacy issues, no mandatory subscription for features.
I doubt CAN bus will be around that much longer, I know several EV manufacturers are actively phasing it out. Yes, it was revolutionary in it's time but it's a 40 year old standard that doesn't have enough bandwidth for the requirements of modern cars, and it was designed before security was even a thought. It's also unnecessarily complex wiring that adds weight to the car. Even the updated FD standard is only 8 mbps, so it's barely enough for video from a backup camera.
As I understand it, newer systems like LVCS and Ethernet use less wire and smaller connectors. Apparently it can save up to 30% of the weight in a wiring harness which would be about 100 lbs. There was a thread on it on HN not long ago.
Video for a backup camera is mandatory on new cars in the US and Europe, so it makes sense to use the same bus.
The packet size is a major one. The lack of larger packets leads to nonsense like the "freshness manager" in things like AUTOSAR's SecOC, or the addressing scheme. Every subsequent CAN extension has tried to rectify both of these in different ways and inevitably failed, which leads to the next layer up the networking stack reinventing the wheel badly. Eventually you end up with UDS.
Yea, that 64-byte frame size. In practice, I've always seen it abstracted away into a layer on top, but if you're working low-level (e.g. implementing that layer), it's a pain. So, a given packet may be represented by multiple frames.
While the processing is practically necessarily digital it is possible to build an analog of an analog system - which is to say a digital device that acts in very much the same way that an analog device would. I think many people are underestimating the mini revolution still going on in the quality and price of electronic components.
I don't mind too much if there's still microcontrollers in the car, but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity. The only antenna should be for AM/FM radio.
AM is on its way out with EVs though. there's no reason that a car that has all of that internet connectivity cannot have the same features just without sending the telemetry. upgrades do not need to be OTA, and be upgraded through a USB or even bluetooth from a device. the only reason for it is that there's money to be made from that telemetry.
And TPMS. And key-fob remote lock/unlock. And BTLE for BYO music / calls.
> but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity.
This is the one big thing that has me leaning towards "used, 2015 or older" for my next car.
With an EV, you really do want a way to specify how much power / when should be used for charging though; some "discounted" electric utility plans require being able to shed / schedule big loads on demand, too.
If this vehicle doesn't have any screen, you need to use a phone or similar to configure all this. Yes, schedule data can be done over BTLE, but something big like an OTA update can not be (at least, practically).
There's also a lot of value (for some people) in being able to change/monitor charge capacity from distances further away than what BTLE would support.
If the modem could be toggled and there was a USB port for software updates, I'd be _thrilled_.
I've a petrol car so I don't really know, but what's stopping the power/timing controls from being buttons on the charger wall unit? Even a local network app I'd have no issue with, but I really don't want my car or charging unit on the internet.
Yep, this can absolutely be done. Home wall chargers are just a fancy switch[1], you just need a way to enable/disable it. Could be a feature of the charger, but in the worst case you could add your own secondary contactor that removes power from the entire charger when you don't want the car to be charging.
[1]: They also have control pins to tell the car the maximum amperage they're allowed to draw, but that's not relevant to the feature of "disable the charger when I don't want it charging"
> but what's stopping the power/timing controls from being buttons on the charger wall unit?
The car makes all the decisions about how much power to draw and when to do it.
Excluding the DC super/fast chargers, the hardware on the wall is pretty "dumb".
It's been pointed out elsewhere, but remote notifications are useful so you know it's time to get out of the public charger and let somebody else in (or to go back out and check on why it's suddenly stopped charging)
What do you mean by "analog?" It's not possible to make an "analog" vehicle of any kind due to regulation:
* It would be impossible to pass modern car emissions standards without electronic engine control.
* Backup cameras are mandatory, so you need an electronic pixel display somewhere.
* Lane keeping is required in Europe as of 2022, so that's a suite of sensors and computer-steering as a requirement.
* AEB will be required as of 2029 in the US, so that's a full electronic braking system (some form of pressure accumulator/source, solenoids/valves) and forward looking sensors (radar, lidar, visual, etc.).
Nor practical but an analog system could probably meet the standard.
---
Rearview image means a visual image, detected by means of a single source, of the area directly behind a vehicle that is provided in a single location to the vehicle operator and by means of indirect vision.
Rear visibility system means the set of devices or components which together perform the function of producing the rearview image as required under this standard.
---
5.5 just says it needs to meet certain testing standards, start displaying within 2 seconds of backing up, and stop displaying when driving forward.
>Backup cameras are mandatory, so you need an electronic pixel display somewhere.
The vast vast majority of backup cameras ARE analog, including all the little one inch cubes you see poorly mounted on the back of sedans, and including the ones VW/Audi uses.
You could in fact plug their signal into a tube TV from the 50s. You might lose some overlay features.
If you want any one of:
Smooth running. Reliable start. Smooth Throttle application and resistance to all the problems we had with carbs. Airbags. Automatic management of cold weather performance.
Then you REQUIRE electronic actuators, sensors, and microcontrollers.
> The vast vast majority of backup cameras ARE analog
The camera<->head unit signal modulation is analog but unless the display is a CRT, both ends of the system are digital.
This is basically why I was asking “what do you mean, analog” - I suspect the OP really wanted either no touchscreen or no telematics, which are totally unrelated to whether the systems are analog or digital.
There was a whole generation of very cool analog computer fuel injection (K-jetronic for example) that avoided most carb problems for end users without going full computer - but, there wasn’t a chance these kinds of system could continue to pass modern emissions standards.
In many countries around the world you can buy a brand new 70 series Land Cruiser with a mechanical injection diesel fuel pump, crank windows, no screen, etc. No computer.
NGOs and UN buy them in the thousands for Africa and the Middle East.
It's a $20k, street-legal, EV modding platform. Sounds like you can mount your own infotainment system. Just an electric motor, battery, and chassis, and the rest is up to you. Isn't this what we've been asking for?
Yea, it's pretty exciting. I'd like to see how much more they could strip out to reduce the price and still have a viable commercial product. I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car. Then again, I haven't bought a car new since the 90s, so I'm probably just an old fart who hasn't grokked what things cost today. I still remember the day when the base-model Corolla started costing more than $9999 and I thought the world was coming to an end.
EDIT: Yep, I'm just old. Another commenter linked to a "10 cheapest new cars" list and there seems to be a price floor of around $20K. No major manufacturer seems capable of making one cheaper!
One would be wiser to based on annual depreciation in real $ plus time value of purchase price. I suspect out of new trucks a tacoma would be the cheapest since the depreciation is low to negative (IIRC recently a Tacoma was worth more 1 year old than new).
All new car brands/models will not have comps for several years. Even folks buying Rivians, etc have no idea how the resale value will play out so you’re always going to have to take a gamble
According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics[1], $9999 in 1995 is equivalent to $21,275.25 today, so it's a pretty spot on price for a barebones car.
Except, with advances in computational design and engineering, manufacturing automation, and moving to plastic for the body I would expect a reduction in price, in real terms. Not impressed.
Some of those $10k cars in the 90s had more plastic in the bodies than cars today, e.g. Saturn S-series, where all body panels below the belt-line were plastic.
It isn't necessarily the cost savings one might expect though, because steel panels can also be load bearing and part of the crash structure, which is not really practical with plastic panels.
With plastic panels, that means they're replaceable. Possibly even swappable (custom 3D printing?). This just adds to the "modding platform" they could be marketing to.
In fact, on modern cars many times these panels are replaced.
If you get a big enough dent in a door, a good body shop will offer to replace the outer skin instead of filling with bondo. They cut the weld on the inside of the door all the way around, take off the shell, and epoxy a new one on. The body shop owner told me that the epoxy is actually stronger than the factory weld.
Yes, bodywork is quite a mature discipline. I was presuming the parent commenter meant user-replaceable, i.e. bolted on.
> The body shop owner told me that the epoxy is actually stronger than the factory weld.
Often this is because the special high strength steels used in vehicles today depend on proper heat treating to attain their strength, and welding can compromise this. Many OEMs even specify panel bonding for repairing particular crash-critical parts of vehicles now because of this.
It's mostly because the factory welds are the result of someone running numbers until they find the bare minimum whereas the autobody guy would rather not risk it.
The OEMs have proper repair procedures that are the correct way to fix the vehicle, and if the autobody shop is reputable, they follow them. And the stated reason OEMs specify panel bonding instead of welding is:
1. because UHSS is sensitive to heat, and robots are much more accurate in how they heat than Jimmy with a tig torch, and they were programmed by a process engineer, where as Jimmy welds until 'it looks good'.
2. welding may compromise anti-corrosive treatments on the inside of inaccessible cavities, which can lead to corrosion issues
Cost savings wasn't the reason for the Saturn plastic panels, IIRC -- they were intended to make the car more durable; they were hard to dent. Some Saturn salespeople would kick the side of the car, hard, to demonstrate their resilience.
>Except, with advances in computational design and engineering, manufacturing automation, and moving to plastic for the body I would expect a reduction in price, in real terms.
Except with all the safety equipment, crumple zones, airbags, sensors, etc. I would expect an increase in price.
And this back-and-forth here is why the folks at the BLS
have a hard job. Both options—
a car in 1990 is a car in 2025 and real value/utility is unchanged and price should be compared 1-1 ignores that cars are actually better now. But at the same time you literally can't buy a new car at 1990's quality so the additional value/utility might not actually be wanted by some and so this in effect makes real price go up.
In nearly all cases they're faster. 10+ second 0-60 times used to be pretty normal for "regular" cars. Now days, people will complain that a car is slow if they can't put down 7 second 0-60 times. And "quick" boring cars of today are as fast as sports cars of the past.
The 1996 Ferrari F355 Spider and the 2025 Hyundai Elantra N both have a 0-60 time of 4.8 seconds.
For those price-comparing, it is $20K after the federal incentives. So, its real cost is around $27K which makes it way more expensive than what the article claims.
The average price of new cars sold in the US last year was nearly $50k. The manufacturers make more money from expensive cars than cheap cars, and people keep buying them, so that's what they sell. Before they canceled the Fit, Honda was selling almost 10 times as many of the larger CR-V each year.
You can find numerous new cars for sale in Mexico for under $15k USD.[0] Even Europe has several new cars under €20k.[1] These are the same manufacturers we have here, but lower cost models that are only sold in lower-income countries.
Most of those models are not real. They exist, but they don't make many of the base model and if you attempt to purchase one, it is a 4-18 month lead time.
I was in the market in Mexico last year, just looking for a cheap city car with a warranty for when I am there. I test drove half the cars on that list, the other half I immediately eliminated after sitting in the driver's seat for under a minute.
You can think of those base models like MSRP GPUs right now. They exist on paper, but good luck actually getting one for MSRP.
In the end, I didn't purchase any of those and got a two year old certified preowned vehicle with the top trim and comfortable seats from a dealer with a warranty for about $3000USD more than the cheapest actually available model of those linked in your post.
I guess I'm living firmly in the past, but $20K still seems to be a high price for a car.
You're not even living in the past. Our 20 year old Scion xB cost us $20K out the door new (granted, that's with most of the paltry list of options added, $15K base). And that was a cheap car at the time, Toyota marketing to "the kids".
The last time $20K was "a high price" for a new car was probably before most HN folk were born.
Is it? They show speakers mounted in the front as a "soundbar". Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
Samsung Galaxy A Series (A15 / A15 5G, A14 / A14 5G, A25) all have headphone jacks. These are their "lower-end" models, though. The higher-end ones don't. And of course, iPhones haven't for a long time, too. Alternatively, for other phones with just a USB-C port, you could get a USB-C to headphone jack adapter.
edit to add: if Slate is successful, I wouldn't be surprised if a decently sized ecosystem pops up around easily installed custom sound systems and the tablets (possibly with headphone jacks!) to control them.
Thank you! I'm not a huge Samsung fan, their Android flavor doesn't appeal to me much, but I'm glad that someone is still making phones with headphone jacks. USB-C adapters are mostly fine, but I like being able to charge and listen to music at the same time without a clunky adapter, it's yet another thing I'll lose.
Good find, I currently have an aging Pixel 6a (with, regrettably, no headphone jack) but I like Motorola's hardware and their fairly vanilla Android. I may consider a Motorola device, if they provide updates for at least 5 years.
The interesting modern tools for passengers wanting to DJ are shared Spotify playlists and Apple SharePlay.
A lot of Bluetooth speakers today can fill a car with a sound wall better rear speakers used to. Apple says you just need two of their Bluetooth speakers to fill a room in a house with great stereo and reasonably good surround sound. The square footage of a car is generally smaller than the supported room size.
I just want some power ports and good mounting points, then I can put whatever I want there, and upgrade it. I'd imagine that people will come up with a mountable radio kit, like the DIN format radios of old, but with less restrictions.
DIN format radios are still around. My recent-ish corolla's infotainment display is just a well integrated double-DIN. I'm surprised this car doesn't as far as I can tell, have a DIN slot for one.
Yes, they have a nice storage bin right behind where you put the optional tablet mount, but the only option I've seen for that bin is a speaker kit. I don't want a tablet mount or speakers in the bin. I want the left side of the bin (above the controls) to be a double DIN mount.
> Will people figure out there is a reason cars with good sound systems have them mounted all around the vehicle?
No, because they knew what they were getting into when they bought this truck. And I'm sure there will be a dozen DIY ways to add a more traditional sound system.
This is an $27k car, with $7.5k rebate, so much for the unfairly competing Chinese.
The MG4 is £22500 in the UK before tax, which is about $30k in USD, and that's a full-featured 5 door car, with double the range.
I do applaud the philosphy of cheap and barebones, and easily moddable, but my two cents is that trim is not the thing that's making cars expensive to make.
> a comprehensive active safety system that includes everything from automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection to automatic high beams
No stereo, but luckily they still found space for a few DNN accelerators that will slam on the brakes randomly when getting false detections. Likely still has a 4G uplink and all the modern car cancer to make sure they can datamine their clients as much as possible and offset the subsidized purchase cost.
That's with federal incentive and likely before they factored in the tariffs. Those 500 parts aren't all coming from US. I wouldn't expect any usable version of it to be below 30k once it's actually available.
One advantage they might have is that there isn't much on the market for low priced pickup trucks in general. I'd probably rather have a gas pickup than an electric but I don't want to pay the inflated prices that go along with them.
Agreed. The U.S. market had a very long run of both large expensive and small cheap pickup trucks, and people consistently have bought the big luxury pickups. It is why all the small trucks were axed to begin with. Even back in their prime, I saw many more F-150s than Rangers. Its an easy up-sell as I'm sure any car salesman will say: well for only a few more thousand you get into a full-size, and from there, add some options and its over.
>Even back in their prime, I saw many more F-150s than Rangers.
I think you're misremembering. The streets were flooded with Rangers and S10s back in the day. Full sized pickups have been the most popular class of vehicle for decades but that number is grossly inflated by the amount that are bought as fleet vehicles or work vehicles.
It doesn't matter why the number is inflated. If full sized trucks are most popular, then that's what you'll see more of. In any case, there are many people for whom a full-size pickup is their daily driver and not used for work. HN is constantly complaining about it, just not today apparently.
I like it. My wife runs a riding academy and we use a Honda Fit the way some people would use a pickup truck: we can fit 10 bales of wood shavings in the back. [1] We’re dreading when it fails because they don’t make the fit anymore and compact hatchbacks seem to be on the way out. Recent experiences have made me a bit of a Buick enthusiast and I can see driving a 2005-ish sedan except that I won’t get those sawdust bales into the trunk. We are also thinking of fitting in EV into the fleet, so far the used Nissan Leaf has been the main contender but this is a pickup truck I could get into.
[1] We were profitable from day one because we didn’t buy a $80,000 pickup on day one the way everybody else does.
Would a used Metris cargo work? We have the passenger version and it’s excellent. True 1000kg load rating, and the cargo version can be had extremely cheaply.
We also have our eye on this truck, but with less urgency since our van does everything we could want.
The Honda Fit is great. You can probably squeeze an extra decade out if you're willing to swap out the motor or transmission (used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable), and if you're using it heavily then you have the advantage that most cara on the market take less abuse, so you can maybe grab a decade beyond that by picking up somebody else's used Fit when you're done repairing yours.
> used, 100k miles or so, if you shop around $2k-$3k should be doable
Where are you finding a 100k mile Honda Fit for $3k? Before I bought my current daily driver, Honda Fits were on my list to look out for and in the central NJ area I never saw one in decent condition around that mileage for less than $5k. Even looking now I see people trying to part out theirs for $2k or looking for $4k for a 200k mile one. I messaged someone on FB Marketplace that had a 2013 with 65k miles on it to try and bring down their $11k asking to $8k and just got ignored.
NJ is probably on the higher end of the market but the deviation can't be that big.
Japanese cars, particularly cars that have been orphaned, keep their value at high mileage.
If I had to get a high mileage car in a hurry in upstate NY with some expectation that my acquisition + repair costs would be reason I'd go looking for a 2005 Buick. Maybe half of that is getting older, the other half is that my son drives a '96 Buick which has needed some creative maintenance but has been rock solid reliable after a flurry of work where we replaced aging parts.
Why a Buick? Which 2005 Buick? You can probably, find a simpler or less expensive doppelgänger if you look at the same car but with a Chevy or an Olds badge. I don’t mean this as a dig, simply curios.
Buick is gonna be less ragged out than an Impala or Olds of same age (you see the same with the Grand Marquis vs the Crown Vic). An 05ish one will come with a 3400 or 3800v6 which was pretty solid and cheap to own by then. The rest of the car is nothing special, just keep oil and coolant in it and drive it.
Basically he's picking a very well sorted platform of a vehicle and then choosing the brand that most correlates with buyers who'll keep it in good order.
When my son got his first job and needed a car in a hurry to commute I helped him get his first car and in the search we wound up looking at a lot of Buicks that we liked and were at a good price and in good condition, particularly circa 2005 though we wound up with a '96 Park Avenue. It was my first experience owning an American car (title in my name for the cheaper insurance) and my own experience plus what I read indicates I probably would have done well with one of the 2005s.
My take is that at that age you don't pay that much more for the upbadged car but you're likely to find it in good condition but you get to enjoy the bling (the '96 is ahead of its time with traction control) and Buicks of that vintage have one of the best engines GM ever made.
Sorry I wasn't clear. You can get a motor with 100k miles from a totaled car for $3k, including the labor to replace it.
To your actual question, I bought mine (2008, manual) in 2018 for $5k with 100k miles in The Bay, and it took about a month of waiting for a good deal to crop up. I've put another 100k on it without issue and plan to drive it a long time. Inflation and the chip shortage have roughly kept up with depreciation, so I'm currently seeing some good options in the $6k range and similarly expect that $5k is around the bottom of what you can pay for a nice vehicle with 100k miles on it.
Also, deviations can absolutely be that big. It's more prevalent at the top of the market, but there are big differences in Subarus and Civics, for example, in different parts of the country, even in the sub-$5k range. It's often worth a flight and driving back to purchase a car (if you value your time at $0 or have other things to do while you're there).
Damn, that's a great deal. And yea, $5k seems to be about the bottom of the barrel in terms of getting a decent car.
For my "daily" driver (I drive a few times a week and it's rarely more than 20 miles), I ended up buying an imported WRX on an auction site. Cost more than a used Honda Fit but it's a ton of fun to drive.
If you stay on top of fluid filming or wool waxing you can largely avoid this. I've got 7 winters of WI slush and salt on my truck and just a few nickel sized spots of surface rust on the frame so far.
I also love this design and I'm happy that someone is doing it. I think it's unlike anything else on the market.
But, they won't necessarily be competing against other new things on the market. My wife also rides horses and we got a $5000 20 year old F250 which is very basic but has been bulletproof, and it can tow. I imagine old, basic trucks, either cheap domestic ones or kei trucks will be what this thing competes against.
I hope it does well. This is the kind of design thinking that the auto industry needs.
Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like. But when it dies you do have options - maybe a Ford Transit Connect or a Metris.
To be fair, a lot of farms need a big-ass pickup truck because they are always towing horses to go to shows or trailheads. We have 70 beautiful acres and a network of trails my wife built that were inspired by Het Vondelpark in Amsterdam. [1] If everything goes right we trailer in a horse once and never have to trailer it out although some horses don't fit in or have to go to the vet.
The Fit, however, is really genius. It's got the utility of an SUV in the body of a compact. I can't believe Honda's excuse that it wasn't selling -- in my area it is a running gag that if you have a blue Fit somebody will park another blue Fit next to you at the supermarket or that it makes a great getaway car, if somebody catches you doing donuts in their lawn you can say it musta been somebody elese.
Something I also only really appreciated after spending more time out plains-west in the US, it's dangerous to drive small vehicles because of the average distances and abundance of larger wildlife.
When you're regularly driving 2+ hours one way to a town and a random pronghorn appears in the middle of the road, at night, when you're doing 85 mph... you want to be in something that can take the impact.
If the grocery store parking lot is any indication, farming is the number one profession in America. All farmers can have their big trucks and still regulate out the other 99% of the 22-foot monsters used to commute to offices.
Comments like these are rooted in selection bias (willful or otherwise).
You're never gonna see trucks being used at the grocery store because people who are in the process of using said truck for truck stuff aren't usually stopping at the grocery store as they do it, and this is before you adjust for what kind of grocery stores HN shops at vs the kind that people who use the crap out of their trucks shop at. If you live the median "suburb to office and back" life you'll never see trucks doing anything. You need to be on the road and not in a cube during hours when "things" get done to see that. And the people who do things with their trucks mostly don't live and cross paths with the people who don't.
I could use the exact same faulty logic you're using here with slightly different parameters and come up with the conclusion that cars don't need a second row of seating.
And before anyone projects anything stupid at me, I own a minivan.
> You're never gonna see trucks being used at the grocery store because people who are in the process of using said truck for truck stuff aren't usually stopping at the grocery store as they do it,
I think you missed the point of the GP post. They were noting the presence of (a lot of) trucks at the grocery store parking lot. Whether they are towing/hauling isn't really the point.
There are trucks and then there are trucks. The Ford Maverick gets 42mpg in the city, 35mpg on the highway and is reasonably priced. If you value economy, ecology, efficiency and such that's right up there with a compact car. The F150 is a L size electric truck, an S size truck will appeal to people.
If you're towing a horse trailer you really want the biggest truck you can get or a GMC Suburban or something like that.
On the other hand in the suburbs of some New England towns that I'm sure are full of white collar workers you see nothing but trucks in the driveway and I laugh when I see a Ford F350 with a lift kit and commercial plates idling and see, a few minutes later, a few pencilneck geeks come out of a frat house and climb into it.
I've found this to be very regional. There are parts of the country where there are a lot fewer trucks and most appear to actually see a meaningful amount of real-truck use. There are other parts where like 40% of the goddamn cars on the road are pristine, bloated modern trucks that are just used as commuter vehicles.
All micro cargo van providers have stopped building them. The Transit Connect, Metris, Promaster City and NV200 are all now discontinued. The VW Caddy isn't sent to the states.
There are rumors that they will make a cargo van based on the Maverick but they make them in Mexico, and with the tariff situation I'm not sure if they will be going through with that anymore.
All of the perfect compacts and hatchbacks are slowly disappearing, and solid work trucks have been replaced with $60k+ fake trucks that will melt their gaskets with crappy turbos and can't even fit a piece of 2x4 in the back. There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized. Almost nobody is serving them right now.
That's a supply:demand problem that will normalize in the long run though. Ford hedges their bets by not producing something risky at full-tilt; dealers maximize their profitability with an in demand model. (Especially since they're not making the absolute markup by selling full-loaded F150s at higher price points)
Ford’s pretty heavily discouraging that, and the supply/demand on the Maverick has pretty much equalized now. I put down a deposit for one recently under MSRP.
> All micro cargo van providers have stopped building them. The Transit Connect, Metris, Promaster City and NV200 are all now discontinued.
This is an entirely american problem, because the small van is largely dead in the US. They're doing fine elsewhere.
The Metris is still manufactured (as the Vito, or V260 in China), and is not the smallest model which is the Citan (based on the Kangoo, with its second gen based on kangoo III in 2021).
The Promaster City (Fiat Doblo) still exists, as a rebadged Berlingo since 2022.
The NV 200 was replaced by the NV 250 (a rebadged Kangoo II) in 2019, which was then replaced by the Townstar (a rebadged Kangoo III) in late 2021. There's also the Docker / Express below that (which descends from the Logan MCV / Van).
And the Transit Connect was replaced by the Caddy (rebadged), but Ford dropped its original plans of a US release.
> There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized.
Apparently not sufficiently so (or with a consistent enough need) that they can be catered to. Or at least not so that you couldn't make more money selling them pavement princesses.
They're both good in different ways. The advantage of the Fit is largely in cargo height (with the magic seats flipped up), but for some other objects the 80s Civic is better.
If you’re not knowledgeable about cars, getting a 20 year-old truck is probably just not an option. Sometimes it’s totally fine, sometimes it craps out and needs a whole engine replaced!
My sister got a 2003 subaru last year for about $3,000. The oil leaked out while she was driving, and the whole engine sorta melted together and just totally died.
So I’d say for non car people, this Slate truck isn’t competing with old cars, if only on the basis of potential hidden catastrophes.
how do you haul hoss though? i would imagine you then outsource to professional hauling services? what do you do for vet visits, when it's not a farm call?
Just pay somebody. In a rural area there are a lot of farmers with a big truck and a trailer and it costs less than the monthly payment on a big truck.
i'll be honest, if the rest of your profile wasn't at least somewhat corraborative, i'd say you're larping, but what you're saying is at least irresponsible. most farmers in rural area have livestock trailers, not horse trailers, hauling for hire (including if you're hauling for students at your barn or whatever) requires CDL and a bunch of other documentation, which you're not typically going to have as a farmer, and more documentation if you're hauling interstate (my vet is across a border), but would i even trust random joe dirt to haul for me? i've hired professionals to transport horses, and i have a handful of people who could haul in a bind and unlicensed but i wouldn't rely on them to be available in an emergency. last year i had to haul an old mare, she was colic, she laid down in the field, covered in sweet, and had to be put down at the vet, but overall it was less than an hour from load to vet. if i had to rely on "farmers", that would prolong her agony. now i just train, so i don't usually have freak accidents, but at riding barns, with students, on trail, something happens from time to time. riding barns i work with tell me horror stories all the time. i'll give you a benefit of the doubt, maybe your wife knows the details, and ithaca being horse country, maybe she's got a friendly neighbor on speed dial, but then you're at best outsourcing your responsibilities to someone else. what other things you can save on to make your operation profitable, at the expense of safety and well being of hoss?
Often these "farmers" are horse traders or people I know with a CDL who have the right equipment and also do other work for me like cut my hay. One of them is "retired" but he waved to me driving a dump truck when I was photographing a sign for my Uni that had a field of daffodils in front of it this morning.
The farmers I associate with care a lot about their animals and I expect them to take the same care with mine. As a rural person I judge people based on relationships and reputation and not on how much insurance they have. I'd trust any of these people to haul a horse in a big-ass trailer than I would trust myself or my wife.
you're not a rural person, c'mon, you're a wealthy cornell tech with a vanity farm. ithaca is dollar horse country, everyone knows that, so yeah i totally buy that in your fairly unique circumtances running a horse business off a back of a ford focus works. i read you as suggesting that the rest of the industry is silly for buying trucks, and you've got it figured out, but you simply punted on the hauling problem.
And for a horse that's not used to loading, a livestock trailer is often much easier because they're more comfortable getting into it than, e.g., a 2-horse slant.
Judging by the number of horses my wife hauls, most horse owners don't have their own truck/trailer. Which makes sense: for most people, the trailer won't be used very often, and hay is usually delivered by the farmer, so don't need a truck for that.
you're limited to one horse at a time with livestock trailer, and if load is a problem, you can use a straight load and i guess remove center divider in a straight load. because i train rather than haul, i'd opt for taking time with load of course.
personal farms don't need to haul, there's no disagreement about that, but op suggested that you can run a horse business this way. it took me a while to realize that he has a vanity farm that's funded by his tech money, so you know he can gradually grow, he doesn't need to board, or train, or any of those other things people in the business diversify their income sources with.
i don't think we're OT at all. in horse business and generally farming you have two types of vehicles relevant to this conversation, trucks and gators. you absolutely need both. your truck can act as a gator, but your gator can't act a truck. you can use pretty much anything as a gator, i've got an old cherokee, an atv with a hitch and an actual gator doing the gator business. op uses a ford focus. the electric pickup from original post is probably a solid gator. kei trucks can be used as gators. but none of this stuff replaces a truck, which you still have to pay shit ton of money for.
usually in conversations like this it's horse people who come in and say "nah we need a truck to haul", but this time op suggested that you can in fact run a horse business with a gator, which prompted some questions from me
this whole subthread started with some cornell guy saying that you can run a horse business off a back of a gator, because your neighbors can haul for you, which is pretty much as cloud people as it goes. i'll venture that there's not a single horse farm in u.s. no matter how poor that is not subsidized with tech money that outsources its hauling. we're talking about running a business here, not hauling daisy to county fairgrounds three times a season.
In my experience, most people who live in rural areas already have access to a suitable vehicle - because a 30-year-old pickup is the cheapest vehicle to own in those circumstances, long-term.
We don't even have a gator. My wife does the material handling herself. Our bill for horse moving is probably less than $400 a year in a bad year, a payment on a big-ass truck is upwards of $800 a month. For that matter, in bad years my wife's business subsidized my tech activities and not the other way around.
Most farmers have a semi and thus a full class A license. Though often haul my horse is done as a labor trade - I'll haul your horse in the off season for me if you help me in my busy season, no money changes hands.
The Chevy Bolt is very similar shape and size to the fit. Supposedly there is going to be a 2026 model. People have thrown after market tow hitches and towed (small) trailers pretty far even. Check out the BoltEV subreddit.
Most small SUVs should be fine though. You switched between wood shavings and hay bales, but I reliably fit 7 hay bales in a 2005 Saturn Vue (wife always managed to get 9 in there), which means that 10 bales of shavings should not be a problem since they're much smaller.
I use a 2018 Subaru Forester to move stuff like this, with the seats folded flat the cargo space is decent. You can add some cargo boxes on the back trailer hitch as well.
The dream is a Pacifica minivan - they make a hybrid version.
The Pacifica and Sienna (and probably Odyssey as well) are absolute garbage for hauling crap. If that is what you are looking for, get a used one from the prior generation.
I run a Honda Pilot for this reason. With the seats folded I can haul 8’ lumber or 10’ PVC pipe inside the vehicle, no tie down needed. If I need to tow, I have a 5,000LB tow rating so most anything around the property is possible with a good trailer for a couple thousand extra.
I bought reasonably used, spent about 30k instead of 50k+ for a comparable pickup truck which lacks the ability to haul 7-8 passengers when needed.
Also has the benefit of being one of the most “Made in America” vehicles out there, #3 IIRC.
I'm also a Honda Fit fan. Technically, it is still made, just not sold in the North American market. It's had a new generation come out since they stopped selling it here, matching the new Civics' style.
The closest Honda offerings are probably the Civic Hatchback (lower roof, but the seats still fold down) and the HR-V, which is basically a Fit on stilts with more weight and slightly less room.
I went with a hatchback Civic Sport Touring to replace my Fit (which has 210K miles on it and is still reliable, though I'm passing it on to someone else) and my girlfriend is about to try the HR-V to replace her (newer) Fit that was just lost in an accident, since she needs more roof height for dog crates.
The rear seat legroom is absurdly good for a car that size. It's been our only car for the past 10 years for a family of 2 adults and 2 kids. Zero issues outside of regular maintenance. Bought for $18k new in 2014 (2015 model). Good times.
I use mine as a light cargo van. The room when you fold the seats down is amazing. Adding a rear hitch bike rack also lets me cart around 3-4 bikes if I want to. I usually drive slower when I have a bunch of stuff though to keep the transmission from overheating. I just make sure to do a transmission service every 30-50k miles and oil changes every 5k. The dang thing is bomb proof.
The Fit is a wonderful car. I'd buy one if I could find one for a decent price, but 40k miles 2020 (last year for them in the US) still runs around $20k at dealers and Carvana! For five grand more, I can get a brand new Corolla Hatchback, which is what I'll likely do, but I'd pick up a Fit without thinking if I could find a good price.
A Mazda 5 might be a good option in the future. I used to run esports events and could get 20(!) 6’ tables in the back, with some rope to keep the back door down.
Love my Honda fit - had to replace the transmission at 160k km (in-warranty!) only thing I wish is it had AWD and just a little more clearance for the snow
Oh HELL yes!! This is almost exactly the kind of thing truck owners have been clamoring for for years now. The only way this could be more exciting is if Ford flipped out and rebooted the Econoline on this concept.
I loved the Saturn plastic doors. The salesdroids were conditioned to call them "polymer panels" and I got corrected when I bought my SL2 back in the day, but I was sold when in their own showroom he kicked the door in, it visibly dented, and then popped itself right back out with no damage to either the paint or the pla, uh, polymer.
That SL2 went from California to Maine, down to Georgia and back to California. It never had any dings and had only a few scratches in the paint. My Civics seem to get dinged if you look at them wrong.
I wish I could have said the same about the Saturn's stickshift, though. That actually fractured when I was in Gilroy. I mean, the shaft literally snapped.
Yeah, the problem with Saturn was the general level of QA of GM cars of that era. I could make the "check engine" light come on by pressing the accelerator with a small amount of force in my SL2. And it didn't handle very well.
My first car was a Saturn, they performed that same trick in the salesroom as well. They didn't keep that trend up forever though, in the late 2000s my father went to go purchase another Saturn, and he was reeling up to give it a kick before the salesman had to hurriedly tell him they didn't make them like that anymore.
That was probably by the time they had become a glorified Opel rebadge shop. I was probably going to buy another Saturn and I might have settled for an Ion, but the Astra was, to borrow from Dan Neil, "hewn from solid blocks of mediocrity." So now I drive Hondas again.
I had an old Nissan XE truck for a few years. I loved it, the thing was simplicity itself.
I assume there's still a lot of vaporware here, but if they can make it reliable and avoid the teething issues of new cars, I'd probably impulse-purchase one. I would also love to see options for AWD and a full-length bed.
In a 2-door vehicle, you can just lean over and roll up the window and toggle the lock on the other door. If you've ever had an old car then you'll know the annoyance of a broken electrical motor.
Power window "regulators" (the unit that holds and raises/lowers the window) are usually similar in price and weight to cranked manual window assemblies, and can be cheaper. A small motor is not at all expensive and is a less specialized item than a window crank handle and gear unit.
What could save money is not needing to run any wiring whatsoever into the door - if the doors can be made with no speakers, lighting, crash sensors, switches, power locks, or power windows, then the assembly becomes significantly simpler and therefore cheaper since there's no wiring harness to fish (usually a manual production step), no holes and grommets, etc.
But if power windows are going to be an option, I'm not sure how this plays out. Do the power windows come with a wiring harness that requires the user disassemble the interior and fish the wiring? If it comes pre-wired, then the choice for manual windows is actually quite strange and possibly more expensive.
That's why I'm wondering if locks are manual as well. If there's no wiring at all going into the doors then presumably the doors will be cheap. But if they have power going in for locks already, power windows shouldn't be a costly addon.
This is a plus, in my book. The fewer crappy electrical gizmos the better. I had the same question, hope the locks are manual with no keyless entry or hackable key fob.
Why the downvotes on this comment? If you're not sufficiently curmudgeonly to sympathize with this sentiment, there's lots of other cars for you. I'm sure you can find a subaru outback with a built in purple hair dyer or whatever you want.
Lots of trucks are still for work, but they have gotten so expensive more people than ever are considering them as luxury purchases.
Electric windows have been a luxury item for generations.
Traditionally, with an F-150, they were just much slower, prone to failure and expensive to replace.
Especially if you often go in & out from a gated area where you have to roll your window down every time and use your pass or talk to the guard :\
Or roll them all down whenever it has been parked in the hot sun, to quickly let out the overheated air before the air conditioner can become very effective. If you have A/C, or even use it at all :)
Window motors may not last much longer than a set of tires then, and cost as much to replace, often without warning. You're supposed to be able to afford it anyway.
However in the late 1990's the manual knob was moved to a stupid place, and it became impossible to lower the window in one quick second any more.
I can only imagine that the automotive engineers were constantly being bathed in the luxury of their environment and never even put enough test vehicles having no options through any kind of ergonomic comparison.
For the longest time these kind of things were built to provide an extreme amount of comfort for someone having a similar stature to Henry Ford. Almost lasted the entire 20th century before there was such great discontinuity.
Engineers probably didn't test drive any having manual seat adjustment, on long trips either. Otherwise they would have done better than to have an adjustment bar blocking the entire area under the driver's seat in such a way that about 25% of the footroom was lost, which was formerly available as you occasionally adjust your posture for endurance.
It was like expensive sportscar people started designing trucks. You don't sit upright in a sports car so the space is not wasted there. No more twin I-beam front suspension either, you didn't really want a truck that tough any more in the 21st century did you?
They didn't know any better. At least they once did.
And who doesn't like luxury?
Automatic locks is another one, once very seldom seen except in things like Cadillacs. That's why people envied them so much for decades, and when they finally came within reach of the mainstream they flew off the shelf.
I would love to have such a simple car, here in the uk.
Something tells me though, that if such a company got successful, it wouldn't be long before the features started creeping back in, to justify an increase in price.
If Slate succeeds, it would be the total inversion of Tesla's original masterplan strategy of starting with a supercar and then slowly working their way down the value chain. And what's really astonishing is that, not only is this the cheapest electric car in the country, it's one of the cheapest new cars in the country, period.
Slate’s plan is only possible because they have the benefit of almost 2 decades of advancements (read incredible price drop) in batteries and EV related components.
Exact same car 2 decades ago would have cost a hell of a lot more. At which point the lack of bells and whistles would have been a huge problem.
It's a very different market today than when Tesla started. Tesla's strategy of starting at the high end was necessary to build electric cars from scratch. New competitors can start with existing supply chains and a base of engineering expertise.
I do think Tesla has lost sight of their original plan, though. They should have kept going through one more generation of significant cost reduction/increased volume after Model 3/Y. They are intentionally leaving this part of the market to competitors as they focus on self driving, and I think it's a mistake that will cost them in the near term.
I think Tesla looked at what is selling in the U.S. market and pivoted to the Cybertruck. Small, cheap sedans and wagons just don’t sell that well at retail anymore—in part because people don’t like them, in part because of safety concerns, and in part because there is a huge backlog of cheap used vehicles.
I think the Cybertruck is a prestige project, like the Roadster. It will never compete with the F-150 in the US in its current form, it won't work in the global market either, and probably won't ever be material to Tesla's financial results unless it gets a complete redesign to make it cheaper and less ostentatious.
However I wonder about the overlap between people that need a truck and this particular truck. I have only owned trucks when I needed to go out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with a payload, in places with poor access to electricity. If I need to go in bumfuck nowhere without payload then there is no need for the truck, and if I need a payload in the city it's just way way cheaper to have it delivered when you factor in depreciation of even a cheap truck.
Would really love to see something like this with a simple 4 cylinder motor. Like the old s-10 / ranger. Until then the solution I have found is to just tag a trailer on small passenger vehicle, since it is now impossible to find a compact gas truck.
It sounds like the truck is very modular so maybe they’ll offer a generator option for gasoline-powered charging. Otherwise you could throw a normal generator in the bed.
I think that you're looking at extremes exclusively when it comes to your assessment. I live in a "city" in WV and need my truck all the time to get to rural areas, but that doesn't mean that I don't have reasonable access to electricity. Furthermore delivery around my city really isn't affordable or available in a lot of cases.
That being said, I really wish we had a small ICE truck in the USA, or an equivalent to the s-10/ranger. Even the ford maverick is exceptionally tall and it doesn't come with a bed that is big enough to conveniently move building materials.
The maverick bed is only 54" or 4.5ft and older model rangers and S10s can be had with up to a 6ft bed.
I bought a Maverick and it wasn't noticeably larger than my extended bed ranger, I actually feel like it is smaller, especially considering modern A pillars and such are very thick and rigid compared to the death trap of the old ranger.
I have had no issues moving construction materials with the Maverick. I've moved around 12ft boards and stacks of drywall. The only real difference I noticed is I can't lazily hang things off the tailgate, which tailgate latches aren't specced to do anyways.
Not sure which ranger you're talking about - but if you mean the 6ft one, 18 inches of bed length is definitely noticeable.
It's also definitely possible to haul all those things with almost any truck. Hell, you could even buy a rack for a maverick that makes full 8ft by 4ft sheets of drywall/plywood super easy to carry around, but being able to really easily load up stuff and not have to do some complicated strapping/securing of the payload is a big win with a bigger bed. I personally haul motorcycles a lot, and being able to have two motorcycles in the bed with tailgate up is a huge plus for me.
edit: misunderstood your first comment. What year Ranger are you talking about? The difference between an 80's/90's small truck and an early 2000s can be very considerable.
There's a whole different conversation and argument about the general size of vehicles in the US that is essentially circular and leads to bigger and bigger vehicles in the name of "safety".
The Maverick is also kind of dumb because of the choice to do unibody instead of body on frame. I'm sure there's some weight savings or whatever, but at least on a body on frame truck, I can opt to change the bed out even on a short bed truck and add a flatbed when it makes sense. When someone using it like a truck inevitably beer cans the bed, they're going to be really sad that it's not a relatively quick and simple thing to fix (by just going and getting another bed).
"Safe" is relative, but I've taken older Honda civics through water part-way up the doors. When you're in the middle of nowhere it's nice to have options. Do you run the risk of major electrical faults if you run this through water?
Due to it being electric or due to the specific design? EVs are generally much easier to design for water crossings. I actually drove an electric motorcycle across a river fully submerged, which it wasn't even designed for (had to do a thorough check afterwards but it was completely fine). This is not even remotely possible with the bike I normally ride (Africa Twin).
Proper sealing, mostly. The bike I was riding is a custom-built enduro, the electric part is fully sealed up to the handlebars but the river turned out to be a bit deeper, as it often happens. Electric drivetrains are much simpler. They aren't running as hot as ICE, don't need outside air, have less vibration and fewer moving parts... you can make it a proper submarine if you desire. In fact, certain 2WD electric mopeds are rated for underwater riding.
It's possible to use a normal motorcycle fully submerged as well [1], but designing for that is way harder due to the exposed engine, you need a ton of things and not just a snorkel.
I'm living in a suburb but been thinking about a pick up
Some uses are, impulse Craigslist and local furniture purchases, outdoor sports equipment, home garden projects.
My sedan is trashed from ocean related stuff I'm always putting in it. I was in a rush the other day, accidently left something wet in the car all day and have a mildew smell now to deal with. Dumb stuff like that seems avoidable.
Keep a desiccant pack in the car, it'll go a long way towards avoiding damp-related issues. The reusable silica gel ones market for gun safes come in a metal can that's easy to handle & recharge in the oven at low temperature. We have muddy gear in/out of our cars constantly and this has worked for us.
In my experience "bumfuck nowhere" has better access to electricity than the city. Every farmer has a welder plugged into a handy accessible high amperage socket.
Definitely depends. Most my neighbors in the country have 100 amp service and they are sucking that dry already now that they have heated water and electric HVAC. Many more run solar only since it can cost $30K+ for a half mile extension.
My experience of rural areas is that few are actual farmers. After all, farming has largely consolidated and become automated. Most country people just don't want a city lifestyle. They might have some of the accoutrements of a farmer and have added lifestyle (enjoyable/fulfilling) overhead and significant attitude (independence & sometimes xenophobia) for themselves, but it's a lifestyle choice. Therefore most don't have a welder (though they probably know someone who has one).
That's rural but not "bumfuck nowhere". Within ~100 miles of a city there are a lot of rural non-farmers, but only farmers will live 200 miles away from the closest city.
I don't think that's true, but can't quickly find evidence. Ultimately it can't be depended on and is something an EV buyer would want to verify for their region.
Very few people live over 200 miles from a city in the lower-48 states of the US.
To give you an idea: It's 413 miles between Colorado Springs and Wichita[1], leaving a very narrow area to be over 200 miles from either. Grand Island, Nebraska is 402 miles from Denver.
Pretty much all the land is over 200 miles away from a city of at least 50k population is in the great basin. To give you an idea, there are 3 cities in North Dakota (a 200x200 mile rectangle) that have a population of at least 50k, and with Bismarck relatively near the center, that rules out much of the state alone.
1: Dodge City is technically a city, but at much less than 50k population I'll omit it. If you allow anything called a city to count you could probably fit the list of people on a single piece of paper. Using the 50k cutoff you still have 3 cities in North Dakota, a 300x200 mile rectangle.
Yes. I want this truck...but with a 4 cylinder ice engine. Nothing fancy. No needed stereo or seat warmers or complicated anything. I want a small, simple, and affordable truck with good reliability. Before anyone asks, I can't drive the tiny Japanese trucks in my state. They are cool, but look too small when people are driving what are essentially container ships with wheels these days.
No thanks. More expensive with garbage infotainment system that violates the user's privacy. Also I'd bet the engine won't hold up well in the long term
FWIW, the Maverick works pretty much as expected if you pull the wires for the telematics control unit. (i.e. the infotainment system works minus the connectivity.)
As far as the engine, I’d bet on the hybrid engine holding up better than the ecoboost long-term.
Rural areas tend to not have gas close. 10 miles or so. I know farmers who get gas delivery just because some cars never go to town, just field to field. Charge an ev at home and they avoid a lot of fuel headaches.
I remember in the '70s in central California many farmers did a similar thing, except with propane instead of electricity. They already had large propane tanks and regular propane delivery because they used propane for heating and cooking, so converting a truck to run on propane brought the same kind of convenience that an EV brings today.
These are going to be backlogged for years. The US market is absolutely dying for this truck (and even moreso the SUV variant), exactly as specified. The big guys have refused to provide it, so there is a literal gold mine awaiting anyone that can.
I put down $50 to reserve one. I grew up with an old car that I tinkered with endlessly. Mostly because it was simple enough for me to get my head around! This car reminds me of that time.
I'm hoping that they go with a lot of "off-the-shelf" electronics and mechanical parts. Standards are a blessing.
It feels like they're going with a different business model to traditional car manufacturers. AFAIK most manufacturers make a lot of their money via servicing. I'd love to take a look at what their long-term business strategy is.
Thanks for the link. I see they sell portable bluetooth speakers we can mount under the dash. I like the idea of DIY wrapping both the interior and exterior; I can imagine anime fan boys like my son coming up with very wild art for these wraps. I had also forgotten cars used to have hand cranks to roll up the windows.
Depending on where you live you can almost build certain older cars from new parts. For the UK I believe you can get every single part of an Morris Mini either brand new or at least refurbished. For France you can probably built a Citroen 2CV for parts, including an EV version.
A friend is doing exactly that with a defender 130 . New galvanized frame, every panel new, new axles, new brakes, new transmission, transfer case and engine. New seats, new interior, new doors. Cool project.
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[ 0.18 ms ] story [ 411 ms ] threadDefinitely something I would consider if they can make it happen.
> Got a road trip planned? These trips are all doable on a single charge of our standard battery. If you want to go even farther, our extended range battery increases the range to a projected 240 miles from a projected 150 miles. [0]
[0] - https://www.slate.auto/en/charging
[1] - https://www.axios.com/2024/03/24/average-commute-distance-us...
Edit: The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Spending $20,000 on a 2 seater bench pickup with 150mi range is ludicrous when you can buy a used 5 seater Honda Fit or Toyota Tacoma for $0-7k more.
This is most likely targeted at fleet usecases like a factory or local deliveries, but this won't make a dent in the primary demographic that purchases pickups, and being overly defensive is doing no favors in thinking about HOW to build a true killer app EV for the American market.
Can't basically every other brand use those now? Between the compatible Tesla chargers and all the other ones through Charge America and charging overnight at home, there is no concern from a daily driving, or even moderately ranged trip, standpoint. The downside to long trips is the 30+ minute wait at each charging stop, not the lack of chargers.
Sure but everyone with an EV has an app that tells them where they are and helps with route planning.
>You can't just drive until the light goes on and then stop at the next exit like a gas car.
You nearly can. Most ICE cars turn the light on at 50 miles. Other than maybe the middle of the desert, there is going to be a charger within 50 miles.
if you are facing a strong headwind you will not make it to your preplanned charger.
Not really. The average pickup truck purchaser's has a household income of around $110,000 and 75% live outside cities [0]. When they are purchasing a pickup, it is meant to be both a daily driver and an errand vehicle.
Not have 4 seats AND having a lower range makes it a niche vehicle from a consumer sales perspective.
This is most likely being targeted at fleets, which tend to have a local presence and don't have the consumer usecase attached.
> I would absolutely, 100% get this to have an errand vehicle that never leaves the metro area.
You're a software engineer in the Bay Area. You were never the target demographic for pickup truck sales, but you would in fact be a target demo for a product like a Slate Truck.
[0] - https://www.americantrucks.com/pickup-truck-owner-demographi...
> Not really.
The person you're replying to shares their perspective about why they think your complaints are irrelevant to them. You can't "not really" someone's lived experience. Well you can, but it sounds smug and out of touch.
The base model only has two seats. The article explicitly states there will be an SUV conversion kit that you can purchase and install at home. There will also be an extended battery available. It's a very customizable vehicle.
In the Bay Area alone, that's huge. A cheap electric 2-seater that can get you into the HOV lanes? Yes please! Who cares if it happens to be truck-shaped. Squint and pretend it's an Electric Camino.
> You're a software engineer in the Bay Area.
...who grew up in the Midwest, learned to drive in a 1970 Chevy Custom with 3-on-the-tree, spent many adult years on the Great Plains, and who happens to live in the Bay Area now.
I am no stranger to trucks.
There are a million things I could use a pickup for today, especially for that price.
What am I missing here? Charge at home and you’ll easily do those 42 miles every day surely?
Especially since your other point said these would be aimed at those outside of cities and those people will presumably have parking/charging at their home.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794437
I thought so too, but apparently they make an extended cab one that is like 31k for the base model.
Reminds me of Bollinger prototypes. Whatever happened to those?
Scroll down. The launch event photos look like real prototypes. A bit closer than the marketing photos.
This will be a couple hundred k more attainable.
Although electric can't be 100% analog, I miss the old days when a car has no software updates, no telemetry, no privacy issues, no mandatory subscription for features.
Video for a backup camera is mandatory on new cars in the US and Europe, so it makes sense to use the same bus.
Obviously it is too limiting for modern cars so it will get mostly dropped. It clearly is a great protocol though.
And TPMS. And key-fob remote lock/unlock. And BTLE for BYO music / calls.
> but I'd really rather they didn't have internet connectivity.
This is the one big thing that has me leaning towards "used, 2015 or older" for my next car. With an EV, you really do want a way to specify how much power / when should be used for charging though; some "discounted" electric utility plans require being able to shed / schedule big loads on demand, too.
If this vehicle doesn't have any screen, you need to use a phone or similar to configure all this. Yes, schedule data can be done over BTLE, but something big like an OTA update can not be (at least, practically).
There's also a lot of value (for some people) in being able to change/monitor charge capacity from distances further away than what BTLE would support.
If the modem could be toggled and there was a USB port for software updates, I'd be _thrilled_.
[1]: They also have control pins to tell the car the maximum amperage they're allowed to draw, but that's not relevant to the feature of "disable the charger when I don't want it charging"
The car makes all the decisions about how much power to draw and when to do it. Excluding the DC super/fast chargers, the hardware on the wall is pretty "dumb".
It's been pointed out elsewhere, but remote notifications are useful so you know it's time to get out of the public charger and let somebody else in (or to go back out and check on why it's suddenly stopped charging)
* It would be impossible to pass modern car emissions standards without electronic engine control.
* Backup cameras are mandatory, so you need an electronic pixel display somewhere.
* Lane keeping is required in Europe as of 2022, so that's a suite of sensors and computer-steering as a requirement.
* AEB will be required as of 2029 in the US, so that's a full electronic braking system (some form of pressure accumulator/source, solenoids/valves) and forward looking sensors (radar, lidar, visual, etc.).
I wonder if regulations would allow for a sort of periscope system.
(Not that it would be practical.)
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/part-571/section-571.1...
Nor practical but an analog system could probably meet the standard.
---
Rearview image means a visual image, detected by means of a single source, of the area directly behind a vehicle that is provided in a single location to the vehicle operator and by means of indirect vision.
Rear visibility system means the set of devices or components which together perform the function of producing the rearview image as required under this standard.
---
5.5 just says it needs to meet certain testing standards, start displaying within 2 seconds of backing up, and stop displaying when driving forward.
The vast vast majority of backup cameras ARE analog, including all the little one inch cubes you see poorly mounted on the back of sedans, and including the ones VW/Audi uses.
You could in fact plug their signal into a tube TV from the 50s. You might lose some overlay features.
If you want any one of:
Smooth running. Reliable start. Smooth Throttle application and resistance to all the problems we had with carbs. Airbags. Automatic management of cold weather performance.
Then you REQUIRE electronic actuators, sensors, and microcontrollers.
How many people know what a "Choke" is anymore?
The camera<->head unit signal modulation is analog but unless the display is a CRT, both ends of the system are digital.
This is basically why I was asking “what do you mean, analog” - I suspect the OP really wanted either no touchscreen or no telematics, which are totally unrelated to whether the systems are analog or digital.
There was a whole generation of very cool analog computer fuel injection (K-jetronic for example) that avoided most carb problems for end users without going full computer - but, there wasn’t a chance these kinds of system could continue to pass modern emissions standards.
NGOs and UN buy them in the thousands for Africa and the Middle East.
EDIT: Yep, I'm just old. Another commenter linked to a "10 cheapest new cars" list and there seems to be a price floor of around $20K. No major manufacturer seems capable of making one cheaper!
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794523
https://www.carfax.com/rankings/cheapest-cars
[1]: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Some of those $10k cars in the 90s had more plastic in the bodies than cars today, e.g. Saturn S-series, where all body panels below the belt-line were plastic.
It isn't necessarily the cost savings one might expect though, because steel panels can also be load bearing and part of the crash structure, which is not really practical with plastic panels.
If you get a big enough dent in a door, a good body shop will offer to replace the outer skin instead of filling with bondo. They cut the weld on the inside of the door all the way around, take off the shell, and epoxy a new one on. The body shop owner told me that the epoxy is actually stronger than the factory weld.
> The body shop owner told me that the epoxy is actually stronger than the factory weld.
Often this is because the special high strength steels used in vehicles today depend on proper heat treating to attain their strength, and welding can compromise this. Many OEMs even specify panel bonding for repairing particular crash-critical parts of vehicles now because of this.
1. because UHSS is sensitive to heat, and robots are much more accurate in how they heat than Jimmy with a tig torch, and they were programmed by a process engineer, where as Jimmy welds until 'it looks good'.
2. welding may compromise anti-corrosive treatments on the inside of inaccessible cavities, which can lead to corrosion issues
e.g. https://rts.i-car.com/crn-24.html
A crappy shop will certainly just weld panels in without any regard for materials engineering, but it results in a crappy repair.
Except with all the safety equipment, crumple zones, airbags, sensors, etc. I would expect an increase in price.
The 1996 Ferrari F355 Spider and the 2025 Hyundai Elantra N both have a 0-60 time of 4.8 seconds.
You can find numerous new cars for sale in Mexico for under $15k USD.[0] Even Europe has several new cars under €20k.[1] These are the same manufacturers we have here, but lower cost models that are only sold in lower-income countries.
[0] https://compra.autofact.com.mx/blog/comprar-carro/mercado/au...
[1] https://techzle.com/the-cheapest-new-cars-of-2024
I was in the market in Mexico last year, just looking for a cheap city car with a warranty for when I am there. I test drove half the cars on that list, the other half I immediately eliminated after sitting in the driver's seat for under a minute.
You can think of those base models like MSRP GPUs right now. They exist on paper, but good luck actually getting one for MSRP.
In the end, I didn't purchase any of those and got a two year old certified preowned vehicle with the top trim and comfortable seats from a dealer with a warranty for about $3000USD more than the cheapest actually available model of those linked in your post.
You're not even living in the past. Our 20 year old Scion xB cost us $20K out the door new (granted, that's with most of the paltry list of options added, $15K base). And that was a cheap car at the time, Toyota marketing to "the kids".
The last time $20K was "a high price" for a new car was probably before most HN folk were born.
Keep in mind this price is before the USA federal tax credit. So we're potentially talking about a $12,500 car. And consider inflation.
(Hat tip to @vaidhy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43794867)
If passengers want to DJ, you can get one of those little FM transmitter thingies that plugs into a phone/table headphone port.
edit to add: if Slate is successful, I wouldn't be surprised if a decently sized ecosystem pops up around easily installed custom sound systems and the tablets (possibly with headphone jacks!) to control them.
A lot of Bluetooth speakers today can fill a car with a sound wall better rear speakers used to. Apple says you just need two of their Bluetooth speakers to fill a room in a house with great stereo and reasonably good surround sound. The square footage of a car is generally smaller than the supported room size.
I am hoping like hell this ends up being the case. Give me power, a place to put my own stuff and some details on the CAN bus and leave me to it.
I do not want to pay a premium for your slow, locked down, buggy / seldom-updated touch screen.
No, because they knew what they were getting into when they bought this truck. And I'm sure there will be a dozen DIY ways to add a more traditional sound system.
And it'll always be sold out.
Now there's the real price.
I do applaud the philosphy of cheap and barebones, and easily moddable, but my two cents is that trim is not the thing that's making cars expensive to make.
No stereo, but luckily they still found space for a few DNN accelerators that will slam on the brakes randomly when getting false detections. Likely still has a 4G uplink and all the modern car cancer to make sure they can datamine their clients as much as possible and offset the subsidized purchase cost.
Worst of both worlds?
Will folks revealed preference continue to be big and expensive?
I think you're misremembering. The streets were flooded with Rangers and S10s back in the day. Full sized pickups have been the most popular class of vehicle for decades but that number is grossly inflated by the amount that are bought as fleet vehicles or work vehicles.
F series Fords definitely outsold it, but is also a larger product line.
No, it is because emissions regulations. A small truck can’t be built on our emissions policies, not that there isn’t a market for one.
[1] We were profitable from day one because we didn’t buy a $80,000 pickup on day one the way everybody else does.
We also have our eye on this truck, but with less urgency since our van does everything we could want.
The Telo MT1 also has us eyeing it…
Where are you finding a 100k mile Honda Fit for $3k? Before I bought my current daily driver, Honda Fits were on my list to look out for and in the central NJ area I never saw one in decent condition around that mileage for less than $5k. Even looking now I see people trying to part out theirs for $2k or looking for $4k for a 200k mile one. I messaged someone on FB Marketplace that had a 2013 with 65k miles on it to try and bring down their $11k asking to $8k and just got ignored.
NJ is probably on the higher end of the market but the deviation can't be that big.
If I had to get a high mileage car in a hurry in upstate NY with some expectation that my acquisition + repair costs would be reason I'd go looking for a 2005 Buick. Maybe half of that is getting older, the other half is that my son drives a '96 Buick which has needed some creative maintenance but has been rock solid reliable after a flurry of work where we replaced aging parts.
Basically he's picking a very well sorted platform of a vehicle and then choosing the brand that most correlates with buyers who'll keep it in good order.
My take is that at that age you don't pay that much more for the upbadged car but you're likely to find it in good condition but you get to enjoy the bling (the '96 is ahead of its time with traction control) and Buicks of that vintage have one of the best engines GM ever made.
To your actual question, I bought mine (2008, manual) in 2018 for $5k with 100k miles in The Bay, and it took about a month of waiting for a good deal to crop up. I've put another 100k on it without issue and plan to drive it a long time. Inflation and the chip shortage have roughly kept up with depreciation, so I'm currently seeing some good options in the $6k range and similarly expect that $5k is around the bottom of what you can pay for a nice vehicle with 100k miles on it.
Also, deviations can absolutely be that big. It's more prevalent at the top of the market, but there are big differences in Subarus and Civics, for example, in different parts of the country, even in the sub-$5k range. It's often worth a flight and driving back to purchase a car (if you value your time at $0 or have other things to do while you're there).
For my "daily" driver (I drive a few times a week and it's rarely more than 20 miles), I ended up buying an imported WRX on an auction site. Cost more than a used Honda Fit but it's a ton of fun to drive.
In many parts of the country (I'm Canadian, I assume the same for the US) the body and undercarriage are going to rot before the drivetrain goes.
But, they won't necessarily be competing against other new things on the market. My wife also rides horses and we got a $5000 20 year old F250 which is very basic but has been bulletproof, and it can tow. I imagine old, basic trucks, either cheap domestic ones or kei trucks will be what this thing competes against.
I hope it does well. This is the kind of design thinking that the auto industry needs.
Also I'm increasingly convinced that the Honda fit is what peak performance looks like. But when it dies you do have options - maybe a Ford Transit Connect or a Metris.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vondelpark
The Fit, however, is really genius. It's got the utility of an SUV in the body of a compact. I can't believe Honda's excuse that it wasn't selling -- in my area it is a running gag that if you have a blue Fit somebody will park another blue Fit next to you at the supermarket or that it makes a great getaway car, if somebody catches you doing donuts in their lawn you can say it musta been somebody elese.
When you're regularly driving 2+ hours one way to a town and a random pronghorn appears in the middle of the road, at night, when you're doing 85 mph... you want to be in something that can take the impact.
You're never gonna see trucks being used at the grocery store because people who are in the process of using said truck for truck stuff aren't usually stopping at the grocery store as they do it, and this is before you adjust for what kind of grocery stores HN shops at vs the kind that people who use the crap out of their trucks shop at. If you live the median "suburb to office and back" life you'll never see trucks doing anything. You need to be on the road and not in a cube during hours when "things" get done to see that. And the people who do things with their trucks mostly don't live and cross paths with the people who don't.
I could use the exact same faulty logic you're using here with slightly different parameters and come up with the conclusion that cars don't need a second row of seating.
And before anyone projects anything stupid at me, I own a minivan.
I think you missed the point of the GP post. They were noting the presence of (a lot of) trucks at the grocery store parking lot. Whether they are towing/hauling isn't really the point.
On the other hand in the suburbs of some New England towns that I'm sure are full of white collar workers you see nothing but trucks in the driveway and I laugh when I see a Ford F350 with a lift kit and commercial plates idling and see, a few minutes later, a few pencilneck geeks come out of a frat house and climb into it.
sometimes backroads aren't plowed well. or they. are plowed well and you need to scale a giant snowbank to get into your driveway.
(although my personal preference would be for the industry to make more rally-inspired high-clearance AWD sedans/wagons to fit this niche)
There are rumors that they will make a cargo van based on the Maverick but they make them in Mexico, and with the tariff situation I'm not sure if they will be going through with that anymore.
All of the perfect compacts and hatchbacks are slowly disappearing, and solid work trucks have been replaced with $60k+ fake trucks that will melt their gaskets with crappy turbos and can't even fit a piece of 2x4 in the back. There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized. Almost nobody is serving them right now.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a64351746/2025-ford-mav...
And definitely went the other way from the industry.
This is an entirely american problem, because the small van is largely dead in the US. They're doing fine elsewhere.
The Metris is still manufactured (as the Vito, or V260 in China), and is not the smallest model which is the Citan (based on the Kangoo, with its second gen based on kangoo III in 2021).
The Promaster City (Fiat Doblo) still exists, as a rebadged Berlingo since 2022.
The NV 200 was replaced by the NV 250 (a rebadged Kangoo II) in 2019, which was then replaced by the Townstar (a rebadged Kangoo III) in late 2021. There's also the Docker / Express below that (which descends from the Logan MCV / Van).
And the Transit Connect was replaced by the Caddy (rebadged), but Ford dropped its original plans of a US release.
> There is an enormous category of consumers that just want an auto that's simple, affordable, safe, fuel efficient and reasonably sized.
Apparently not sufficiently so (or with a consistent enough need) that they can be catered to. Or at least not so that you couldn't make more money selling them pavement princesses.
Maybe Slate could offer a van version as well as the SUV.
Close. A bit of work on the rear hatch dimensions so that you could get 4'x8' sheet goods in there, as was possible on the 1980s Honda Civic.
Also, just a teensy-weensy bit more power, please. Ours struggles even on moderate hills here on the edge of the Sangres de Cristo (southern Rockies).
Otherwise, all hail the Fit/Jazz, car of the future past.
My sister got a 2003 subaru last year for about $3,000. The oil leaked out while she was driving, and the whole engine sorta melted together and just totally died.
So I’d say for non car people, this Slate truck isn’t competing with old cars, if only on the basis of potential hidden catastrophes.
The farmers I associate with care a lot about their animals and I expect them to take the same care with mine. As a rural person I judge people based on relationships and reputation and not on how much insurance they have. I'd trust any of these people to haul a horse in a big-ass trailer than I would trust myself or my wife.
Judging by the number of horses my wife hauls, most horse owners don't have their own truck/trailer. Which makes sense: for most people, the trailer won't be used very often, and hay is usually delivered by the farmer, so don't need a truck for that.
How did we get so far OT?
personal farms don't need to haul, there's no disagreement about that, but op suggested that you can run a horse business this way. it took me a while to realize that he has a vanity farm that's funded by his tech money, so you know he can gradually grow, he doesn't need to board, or train, or any of those other things people in the business diversify their income sources with.
i don't think we're OT at all. in horse business and generally farming you have two types of vehicles relevant to this conversation, trucks and gators. you absolutely need both. your truck can act as a gator, but your gator can't act a truck. you can use pretty much anything as a gator, i've got an old cherokee, an atv with a hitch and an actual gator doing the gator business. op uses a ford focus. the electric pickup from original post is probably a solid gator. kei trucks can be used as gators. but none of this stuff replaces a truck, which you still have to pay shit ton of money for.
usually in conversations like this it's horse people who come in and say "nah we need a truck to haul", but this time op suggested that you can in fact run a horse business with a gator, which prompted some questions from me
TBH, I think a minivan would make it even easier.
The dream is a Pacifica minivan - they make a hybrid version.
I bought reasonably used, spent about 30k instead of 50k+ for a comparable pickup truck which lacks the ability to haul 7-8 passengers when needed.
Also has the benefit of being one of the most “Made in America” vehicles out there, #3 IIRC.
The closest Honda offerings are probably the Civic Hatchback (lower roof, but the seats still fold down) and the HR-V, which is basically a Fit on stilts with more weight and slightly less room.
I went with a hatchback Civic Sport Touring to replace my Fit (which has 210K miles on it and is still reliable, though I'm passing it on to someone else) and my girlfriend is about to try the HR-V to replace her (newer) Fit that was just lost in an accident, since she needs more roof height for dog crates.
[Edit: Got that number not from the original article, but from the Ars article another person posted in this thread.]
That SL2 went from California to Maine, down to Georgia and back to California. It never had any dings and had only a few scratches in the paint. My Civics seem to get dinged if you look at them wrong.
I wish I could have said the same about the Saturn's stickshift, though. That actually fractured when I was in Gilroy. I mean, the shaft literally snapped.
Many of those Saturns in Canada driving around with cracked body panels from stray rocks or errant doors in parking lots.
I assume there's still a lot of vaporware here, but if they can make it reliable and avoid the teething issues of new cars, I'd probably impulse-purchase one. I would also love to see options for AWD and a full-length bed.
If they deliver i would absolutely buy one for when my oldest starts driving in 3 years.
There were a bunch of minimal 2 seaters that were affordable.
And young people move residences a lot. Having a small truck that can hold a mattress was ideal.
The modern luxury behemoth truck is an abomination...
Was that more of a problem on older cars?
What could save money is not needing to run any wiring whatsoever into the door - if the doors can be made with no speakers, lighting, crash sensors, switches, power locks, or power windows, then the assembly becomes significantly simpler and therefore cheaper since there's no wiring harness to fish (usually a manual production step), no holes and grommets, etc.
But if power windows are going to be an option, I'm not sure how this plays out. Do the power windows come with a wiring harness that requires the user disassemble the interior and fish the wiring? If it comes pre-wired, then the choice for manual windows is actually quite strange and possibly more expensive.
Electric windows have been a luxury item for generations.
Traditionally, with an F-150, they were just much slower, prone to failure and expensive to replace.
Especially if you often go in & out from a gated area where you have to roll your window down every time and use your pass or talk to the guard :\
Or roll them all down whenever it has been parked in the hot sun, to quickly let out the overheated air before the air conditioner can become very effective. If you have A/C, or even use it at all :)
Window motors may not last much longer than a set of tires then, and cost as much to replace, often without warning. You're supposed to be able to afford it anyway.
However in the late 1990's the manual knob was moved to a stupid place, and it became impossible to lower the window in one quick second any more.
I can only imagine that the automotive engineers were constantly being bathed in the luxury of their environment and never even put enough test vehicles having no options through any kind of ergonomic comparison.
For the longest time these kind of things were built to provide an extreme amount of comfort for someone having a similar stature to Henry Ford. Almost lasted the entire 20th century before there was such great discontinuity.
Engineers probably didn't test drive any having manual seat adjustment, on long trips either. Otherwise they would have done better than to have an adjustment bar blocking the entire area under the driver's seat in such a way that about 25% of the footroom was lost, which was formerly available as you occasionally adjust your posture for endurance.
It was like expensive sportscar people started designing trucks. You don't sit upright in a sports car so the space is not wasted there. No more twin I-beam front suspension either, you didn't really want a truck that tough any more in the 21st century did you?
They didn't know any better. At least they once did.
And who doesn't like luxury?
Automatic locks is another one, once very seldom seen except in things like Cadillacs. That's why people envied them so much for decades, and when they finally came within reach of the mainstream they flew off the shelf.
Something tells me though, that if such a company got successful, it wouldn't be long before the features started creeping back in, to justify an increase in price.
https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-10-cheapest-new-c...
Exact same car 2 decades ago would have cost a hell of a lot more. At which point the lack of bells and whistles would have been a huge problem.
I do think Tesla has lost sight of their original plan, though. They should have kept going through one more generation of significant cost reduction/increased volume after Model 3/Y. They are intentionally leaving this part of the market to competitors as they focus on self driving, and I think it's a mistake that will cost them in the near term.
Slate is an anagram of Tesla. Coincidence?
Obviously a very big "if" making it at that price point will be extremely challenging.
However I wonder about the overlap between people that need a truck and this particular truck. I have only owned trucks when I needed to go out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere with a payload, in places with poor access to electricity. If I need to go in bumfuck nowhere without payload then there is no need for the truck, and if I need a payload in the city it's just way way cheaper to have it delivered when you factor in depreciation of even a cheap truck.
Would really love to see something like this with a simple 4 cylinder motor. Like the old s-10 / ranger. Until then the solution I have found is to just tag a trailer on small passenger vehicle, since it is now impossible to find a compact gas truck.
That being said, I really wish we had a small ICE truck in the USA, or an equivalent to the s-10/ranger. Even the ford maverick is exceptionally tall and it doesn't come with a bed that is big enough to conveniently move building materials. The maverick bed is only 54" or 4.5ft and older model rangers and S10s can be had with up to a 6ft bed.
https://www.motor1.com/news/698055/toyota-13000-dollar-hilux...
I have had no issues moving construction materials with the Maverick. I've moved around 12ft boards and stacks of drywall. The only real difference I noticed is I can't lazily hang things off the tailgate, which tailgate latches aren't specced to do anyways.
It's also definitely possible to haul all those things with almost any truck. Hell, you could even buy a rack for a maverick that makes full 8ft by 4ft sheets of drywall/plywood super easy to carry around, but being able to really easily load up stuff and not have to do some complicated strapping/securing of the payload is a big win with a bigger bed. I personally haul motorcycles a lot, and being able to have two motorcycles in the bed with tailgate up is a huge plus for me.
edit: misunderstood your first comment. What year Ranger are you talking about? The difference between an 80's/90's small truck and an early 2000s can be very considerable.
There's a whole different conversation and argument about the general size of vehicles in the US that is essentially circular and leads to bigger and bigger vehicles in the name of "safety".
https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/2022-maveric...
There's plenty of pictures of them parked side by side.
How rural are these areas? No roads?
It's possible to use a normal motorcycle fully submerged as well [1], but designing for that is way harder due to the exposed engine, you need a ton of things and not just a snorkel.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEPzyZTDDTI
Some uses are, impulse Craigslist and local furniture purchases, outdoor sports equipment, home garden projects.
My sedan is trashed from ocean related stuff I'm always putting in it. I was in a rush the other day, accidently left something wet in the car all day and have a mildew smell now to deal with. Dumb stuff like that seems avoidable.
Why would you buy a pickup for any of these activities? It'd be quite terrible? A van is a perfect solution.
To give you an idea: It's 413 miles between Colorado Springs and Wichita[1], leaving a very narrow area to be over 200 miles from either. Grand Island, Nebraska is 402 miles from Denver.
Pretty much all the land is over 200 miles away from a city of at least 50k population is in the great basin. To give you an idea, there are 3 cities in North Dakota (a 200x200 mile rectangle) that have a population of at least 50k, and with Bismarck relatively near the center, that rules out much of the state alone.
1: Dodge City is technically a city, but at much less than 50k population I'll omit it. If you allow anything called a city to count you could probably fit the list of people on a single piece of paper. Using the 50k cutoff you still have 3 cities in North Dakota, a 300x200 mile rectangle.
I’ve always figured that virtually always includes a gas station, parts store, etc.
http://www.datapointed.net/2009/09/distance-to-nearest-mcdon...
As far as the engine, I’d bet on the hybrid engine holding up better than the ecoboost long-term.
I'm hoping that they go with a lot of "off-the-shelf" electronics and mechanical parts. Standards are a blessing.
It feels like they're going with a different business model to traditional car manufacturers. AFAIK most manufacturers make a lot of their money via servicing. I'd love to take a look at what their long-term business strategy is.
The configurator is fun:
https://www.slate.auto/en/personalization