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Ask HN : Where do you work (if freelance) ?

33 points by juliend2 ↗ HN
I live and work in an apartment.

Most of the week days it's quiet so i can get things done. But as soon as my upstairs neighbor arrives from his day job, i have a hard time to concentrate into my work. I'm very noise sensitive. Even if i listen to music during my work (loud enough) i hear the vibrations from upstairs. The neighbor's sons play rockband on the wii i think and i told them to lower the sound several times but there's nothing i can do about it. I even asked the landlord to warn them and two weeks later, the noises are back.

It's a pretty shitty apartment but it's surrounded by trees and near of everything (grocery store, train station, etc) and that's why we choosed to live here. We tought it would be quiet. We hate the city. But we need to be in the suburbs to meet with the clients in the city by public transportation (we hate cars).

Where do you work if you're freelance?

61 comments

[ 5.2 ms ] story [ 129 ms ] thread
ca98am79
coffee shops.
juliend2
Ok, and the noises of other customers do not distract you? I have to try this i guess. Thanks!
rw
Don't get open-ear headphones. I received some nice entry-level ones (Grado SR60), and they sound wonderful - but background noise is a problem. The coffee shop-office strategy takes some experimentation to get right.
wallflower
If you want pure DB reduction, shotgun-type ear protection works but looks weird.

I find the Bose QC2/Audio-Technica ANC-7 headphones do a good job at reducing low-frequency noise disturbances (e.g. train noise) but don't really do much with random background conversation chatter.

raamdev
I actually like working from coffee shops when they're busy. The more noise the easier it is for me to concentrate. But if I can easily make out several conversations, then I find it difficult not to listen and it becomes more difficult to concentrate.

Comfortable, over-the-ear headphones are always a huge plus if you enjoy listening to music while you work (beyerdynamic headphones are very nice, although a bit expensive).

Everyone is unique. I work well in both very quite, and very noisy environments, but not so well in-between. You just need to figure out what works for you.

wallflower
What do you guys do when you have to go use the restroom facilities? I tend to bring my laptop in with me since the loss of it would piss me off more than the embarrassment of taking it with me.
marketer
Just kindly ask someone to watch your laptop while you're away.
wallflower
I have asked someone to ask my laptop after sitting with the same people for a while and/or they have asked me to watch theirs - in a kind of tenuous, reciprocal agreement. However, most times I feel it's not worth the effort.
larrykubin
I always just leave it out and go to the restroom. Maybe some would call that foolish, but I'm not too worried about it. It seems like everyone at the coffee shops I go to already has their own laptop that is better than mine anyways :).
carbon8
Scope the place out, try to sit away from doors, leave my jacket, throw my laptop in a sleeve and take it with me. I would never leave a laptop on its own.
zack
You have to ask someone to watch your laptop. I'm a psych major, and there was a study that demonstrated that people have a _much_ higher rate of deterring thieves when asked to look after someone's items, for some reason.

Or, get a laptop with built in GPS and 3G internet, and hack the firmware to autoemail you the location on boot-up.

whalliburton
I'm with you. Much easier to just take it with you. Less distraction all around.

Now, asking other people to watch it can be one more nice human interaction for the day if you feel the need.

jaxn
I leave mine at the table. Maybe that is an advantage of my neighborhood in Nashville, TN.
raamdev
I try to find a seat close to the restroom and generally just leave my laptop there (with the screen saver lock on). The way I see it, it usually takes me under 35 seconds to take a leak: 10 seconds to get up and walk into the bathroom and 15-20 seconds to take a leak. Sitting in a long coffee shop, far from the entrance, that really doesn't give someone much time to swipe my laptop without me seeing them.

Plus, if others around me have seen me there long enough, I feel like they'll point out who/where the thief went when I come back out. You also just need to use your judgment. I'd never leave it there in an unfamiliar coffee shop or if I planned to be gone for more than 40 seconds.

raffi
I live and work in an apartment and my nextdoor neighbors like to kick it with the good vibrations too. I used to go over there and ask them to turn it down. I've since given up. Now when I hear them kicking it I just start blasting some techno or classical music. Overall I'm not that ticked at them because they keep their noise to their post-work and before-bedtime hours. It still sucks though.

I like going to a coffee shop or tea house sometimes. There is a nice a teahouse walking distance from where I live. The only thing is as a bootstrapped type, I've cut out the luxury of $5-10/visit to the coffee shop/tea house. When I'm there, the noise isn't annoying and I enjoy being around the people.

For awhile I was heading to the library of the local University. They're open 24/7 and its a good mix of people and quietness. It was kind of fun taking my 12" PB and hacking code at 2am on campus. :) I'm graduated now but may pick that up in the future if my ID card still lets me in.

Working from the apartment, sucks, sort of. Try and make sure you're getting out of it regularly. I go work out almost every day. If there is a gym in walking distance, I recommend joining it. A regular gym visit does a lot to help force a sense of routine and it gives me a break to look forward to.

Also,I have two computers I use for different purposes. I use a small laptop for most consulting work I do. I tend to write specs and whitepapers so this suits me. I find being able to relocate to my couch, read, write, and take notes is a nice break from "the office" 10 feet away. I do all my startup work on my normal computer.

Good luck!

juliend2
thanks for the advice! It seems that we have the same kind of problem. :-S
vikram
Google SilentEar its a type of earplug, very effective. About $10 or £5. Not sure about the vibrations bit, but people have to routinely grab my shoulder to grab my attention, as I can't hear any noise or voice when I have them on.
csuper
I second the ear plugs... work well in an apartment or on the go.
russell
How about noise canceling headphones? Bose makes them, but I think there are cheaper alternatives. I haven't tried them, but I would be interested in comments.
gravitycop
How about noise canceling headphones?

1. They are for use on airplanes.

2. They do not work. http://www.google.com/search?q=noise+canceling+headphones+%2...

mrtron
I went into a Bose booth in an airport (I was bored) and they were showing people the noise canceling headphones.

The employee would flick a button after you put them on that also turned on some subwoofer that made a huge amount of grey noise.

Now sure that is somewhat airplane-ish, but that's sneaky.

mattmaroon
I used the QC2s for a couple years when I was traveling the poker circuit. I liked them a lot at the time. They do greatly reduce certain types of noise. (You can Google for why anything sucks or doesn't work and find results, it doesn't mean much.)

Then another player introduced me to Shures. I've now owned a few sets (most currently http://tinyurl.com/8eyhck) and I would never go back.

The best way I can quantify how much better they are is to say that on a plane, with the QC2s, I would have my volume at 17 (out of 20) but with the Shures it's at 10. And the difference when considering non-ambient noise is even greater. With these in and no music, you can't hear people talking to you from the same room.

They're also significantly less bulky, and more durable. The QCs crack easily, and really require a hard case if you're traveling with them at all. I did have a pair of Shures where the earbuds separated, but they honored the warranty even though it was a year out of date and even sent me a newer, significantly more expensive model as a replacement.

On the other hand, I also had a pair fall out of my pocket, which is $400 lost in an airport.

mrtron
Hmm - your link goes to the Zon affiliate login. Which specific Shures do you think are best?
mattmaroon
Man, that's weird. I just snagged a link from the page.

EC530s. That little PTH dongle is nice if you find yourself often needing to switch to hearing conversations (if you're at work for instance) but I never really found it to be worth the effort.

rms
Hearing people talking with the QC2s is a feature -- they equalize the noise canceling to cancel out engine noise but allow you to still hear people.

What the QC2s have going is comfort. The high end earphones, namely the Shure and Etymotic and at the highest end, custom in-ear monitors offer superior noise isolation with sound quality comparable to the best in existence.

You can get Etymotic ER-4Ps for $174 on Amazon. They're comparable to the highest end Shure earphones. The Ety's will have less visceral bass.

mattmaroon
The Etymotic's just don't have the range that Shures do. With the Shures, it's a little jarring to hear that sort of bass without simultaneously feeling it in your gut, the way you would from a speaker. It's that great.
jon_dahl
I have a pair, and they _do_ work. Just not 100%. More like 70-80%, and certain kinds of noise are filtered out better than others. So they might not be a panacea for the OP's noise problem, but they help more than regular headphones.
drp
I'm very happy with a pair of Philips noise canceling headphones that I purchased for $60 a couple of years ago. They work best for drowning out air conditioning and fan noise, but since they're full size, they make everything quieter even without the noise cancellation activated. I work in an open plan office and people often have to yell or throw things at me to get my attention.
greatreorx
I've had Bose QC2s for about 4-5 years now and it might be the $300 I've ever spent. I worked for several years in an office with an open floorplan and without my headphones, any time someone in the office had a conversation it would distract me. With them, I could completely zone out and get stuff done. The active noise canceling was only part of it, just the fact that they completely wrap around your ears makes a difference. There are obviously cheaper ones that do that, but I don't think they are as comfortable as the QC2.
bd
At first I read it as "Google SilentEar" and wondered why Google started to produce earplugs :).

I used just ordinary worker-protection earplugs when there was some very noisy construction work going on in my building. These were just simple shapes made from memory foam. Very cheap and very effective.

http://koyotegb.tmb.uk.com/K310%20Ear%20Plugs.htm

gojomo
Earplugs are great for some sounds... but a subwoofer rumble (esp. in old multistory buildings) is almost felt more than heard. Then, the fact the earplugs are blocking all other frequencies can make the rumble even more noticeable.
tptacek
Before we had an office, the three of us worked in the Oak Park Public Library, which was excellent. Free wi-fi, very quiet, nice desks.
hugs
Wow... so did I (another Oak Parker!)... but OPPL blocks all outbound ports except 80 and 443. So I couldn't do alot (like SSH admin of remote servers). However, I did create an EC2 instance once where SSH was running on port 80 -- and that worked splendidly. :-) But I can't do all my work that way. Did the blocked ports bother you? Or did you get around it?
carbon8
blocks all outbound ports except 80 and 443. So I couldn't do alot

You should tunnel everything through ssh or vpn when on a public network, anyway, so having a server or router you can ssh into on 443 and use for tunneling is a must for mobile work since it solves the port blocking problem, too.

tptacek
It takes a remarkably crappy security gateway to allow this trick to work; you can't really do it through a Blue Coat or PIX/ASA, because they're doing full proxy for HTTP/HTTPS and they cut off long-lived connections.
tptacek
Not to get too far off track for HN (and hey, why don't I know you? Should get coffee some time.) but OPPL doesn't block SSH outbound, and I use Meebo for IM. I still go there every once in awhile; our office is getting crowded.

There's a whole other conversation to be had about why libraries have these crappy security gateways. Blue Socket randomly locks me out for "bad behavior", but forgets about the lockout if you browse directly to the logout handler. I keep meaning to go find the library IT guy and demanding that they allow AIM.

hugs
(I just updated my HN profile with my contact info... Let's meet at the Buzz sometime!)

Hmm... I think I was trying some wacky ports like "4444" (Selenium) and 5901 ('raw' VNC). I also use a non-standard SSH port (not port 22) for my remote servers. I'll have to give it another go sometime. And yeah, I know I should be doing everything over an encrypted channel anyway. :-)

apollo
Certain libraries are good.. in some of them you can even get a private study room with internet access. I would look at college campus libraries before public libraries. And libraries vary a lot, so I'd recommend checking out a few of them before giving up on this option.
taojian
We hates the city, don't we, precious? Yesssss, we do... We hates it and all the nasty bright men in it...
jmtame
I wrote an app called NoisePact that makes it simple to tell your neighbors to turn down loud music. I'm not really sure how far I got, but the idea and most of the functionality is there. If you want the source, I'll be happy to give it to you to improve upon (uses code igniter).

It works like this: you sign up, print off an invite sheet, stick it on your neighbor's door. They sign up, and you can login and alert their phone via SMS when it gets too loud. It virtually requires zero human contact, which is nice. But like I said, I'm not sure how far I got this. I did it on a Saturday afternoon to see how much code I could do in one sitting.

http://phunctional.biz/NoisePact/?welcome

PStamatiou
I work from home in a highrise condo (that I'm leasing) conveniently located in the middle of the city. That being said a lot of my neighbors are much older (35+) than me (22) and don't listen to loud music. It is dead quiet 90% of the time with a remaining 5% being on the weekends when some neighbors have guests over and another 5% for when occasional cleaning crews are on the floor or when the lady above me that wears high heels is home and walking around.

As for when I need a "change of scenery", I sometimes move down to the lobby floor where there is a secluded library that has the added benefit of smelling like books.

Granted it is rather expensive and I live by myself, but it helps me to be very productive and the fiber Internet line is always a plus.

PStamatiou
By "expensive" I mean still cheaper than a small 1-person studio in San Francisco in the Marina.
Jasber
I'm in the same situation. When I need a break I head to the local coffee shop. If that's too loud I'll head to school or the library. Changing scenery often helps keep the juices flowing.

I find even moving around the apartment helps. I have a movable desk, so I've been experimenting with working in different locations throughout the day.

nickfox
I understand your problem with noise. I've had many people suggest that I use headphones or play music but I find that equally distracting. I learned something recently that might add some understanding to your problem. It's called Highly Sensitive Person (HSP), you can read about it at wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_sensitive_persons

If moving to a place without shared walls is not an option, you might want to shift your schedule a bit. Continue to work while they are not home and also work after they've gone to bed. Then it's very quiet.

jayroh
for anyone who lives in the general Boston city limits (including cambridge, somerville, brookline, jp, etc etc) I highly recommend checking out the Boston Public Library (right under the Hancock Tower). It's quiet, there's wifi, the Sebastian's cafe there has great tables and comfy chairs, and in the summer the courtyard in the middle is absolutely fantastic.

I usually work out of my condo's 2nd bedroom (what we call our office) but when I have the itch to get out and really get work done I head to the BPL.

hotshothenry
I work in Boston, live in Belmont, will definitely check out Sebastian's, thanks for the tip!
raamdev
I work in Cambridge and usually frequent 1369 Coffee House (Central Sq.). I'll definitely have to check out Sebastian's and the BPL. Thanks!
mattmaroon
Life's rough when you hate both the city and cars. America isn't well set up for that.
redsymbol
Currently work out of my home office - have for > two years. Regularly go onto the clients' site, though, which I have found quite helpful in upping my productivity (breaks the routine, and there's something about meeting people in person that just rejuvenates.)

At first I was thrilled to work at home, and overall I still appreciate it. But I'm starting to want to have a separation of work and home environments. One of my goals for 2009 is to get my passive income high enough to pay for an office a short walk from my house (I live in a mixed-zoning part of SF, so this is certainly practical). If I'm going to work at all, that's the ideal situation, imo - physically separate spaces, but near zero time lost to commuting.

(Temporary - just until the passive income explodes and I retire to code open source full time, of course :)

bkj123
When not working at a client, I work from home. I tried renting a very small office but almost went crazy from the isolation and it was not cheap. Now, when I need to get out of the house, I hit the library, coffee shops, or a Jelly (http://wiki.workatjelly.com/JellyinColumbus). Jellies/co-working are a great option. See what you think.
yef
Move. Treat the next place as an investment in your productivity and happiness.
hotshothenry
I have a hard time working from my home office (my bedroom) for long stints of time because I get bored and restless really quick. I love working in like a starbucks or something like that but I feel weird just being in there for that long and only getting like a coffee lol.
symptic
I'm a student and I live in an apartment near the University of Texas campus, working just a few feet from my bed. Freelancing to pay the bills, and my start-up stuff to exhaust whatever surplus I have, which is--thankfully--a lot more lately thanks to my new niche. Noise is high (especially Thursday through Saturday nights due to parties) but I like having noise going on most of the time. If I want some quiet, I can just wake up earlier.

Rent is high, but I see it as an opportunity to find a great way to work that will provide even more surplus/tangible income when I move to somewhere cheaper after school.

I focus on speed of production and finding several small gigs a day. As a designer, it's a lot easier than being a programmer in this regard; lately demand has been at $400 a day but I am only willing to supply $200-300. I don't keep a backlog either, so my rates still have room to grow. This lets me cover my bills and still keep my main focus on my startup (an iPhone app currently, but I have several projects in line, such as http://www.epictee.com).

Here's my setup. My bed is immediately behind my chair: http://i40.tinypic.com/e69085.jpg

larrykubin
Your design work is great. I do my freelance work (mostly PHP) over at Cafe Medici on Guadalupe once or twice a week. I lived on west campus when I was a student, but was too busy participating in the Thursday-Saturday night parties to get anything done while I was in school :). Send me an e-mail if you would like to meet up or need someone to collaborate with.

I work out of my apartment most days, but usually head over to a coffee shop (Epoch, Spiderhouse, etc.) when I feel the need to get out.

kungfooey
Usually I work from home, but I also tend to head out to coffee cafes as many others here obviously do. Unfortunately, I would think that for you the cafes in general are more distracting than working from home. I prefer a noisy environment for some reason and find it easier to get work done.

Another thing to check out is the co-working groups in some cities. There are usually places you can rent a desk, or there are groups of independent web-workers (like Jelly) that meet up occasionally to work together. There's some networking involved, but most of the time the meetings are pretty quiet and productive with everyone going out together for lunch.

jaxn
I have an office that another startup lets me use (for a few more months). We are working on getting some sort of coworking space going which would be ideal for me. Otherwise I will rent a small office somewhere (I can't get anything done at home with my wife and 4 kids there).