Ask HN: How do I give back to people helped me when I was young and had nothing?

396 points by jupiterglimpse ↗ HN
Throughout my career, I've received incredible kindness and inspiration from experienced people - professors, and strangers who invested time in me when I feel like I had little to offer in return. While I always express gratitude and try to pay it forward, I often feel there's still an imbalance. I feel like I owe something more direct to the specific people who shaped my life.

How do you meaningfully give back to people who helped you early on (when you literally have nothing...haha)? What forms of gratitude have you found most meaningful?

Appreciate any comments.

215 comments

[ 121 ms ] story [ 5216 ms ] thread
I'd start with saying "thank you" :-)
Absolutely! I always make sure to say thank you, but sometimes I feel like they deserve more than just words.
I have a goal of writing a thank you note a month to people who have helped me. (Reminds me, I need to do that this month.)

The folks I've done this for were pleasantly surprised, both by the note and the contents of it. They'd forgotten how they helped me, which makes sense, because it was a big deal for me but not for them.

A physical note, reminding them of the help they gave you, is a great way to say thanks.

Wow, thank you! this is really impressive! It feels like receiving a surprise ('dividend') from a past good deed. I will start doing this!
Awesome, let me know how it goes! I wish I was more consistent about it; you've inspired me!
This is the right approach. Not just to be grateful in the moment but in the future to be grateful introspectively.

Also, paying it forward is the best way to give back and can create long lasting positive ripples.

Yes! Pay it forward.

Think about what someone did for you in the past (an intro, a kind word, a helpful convo an investment, whatever it was) and try to do it for someone in your life today.

A colleague did this to me some years ago, he thanked me for the mentorship and confidence I gave him that enabled him to apply for a better paying job title.

It felt like rays of sunshine that came at a time were I particularly needed some, it made my week and then some.

I do a similar thing, except I email random people whose content or materials have helped me, or I appreciate.

Everything from professors, musical artists, authors, and professionals.

I never expect to get anything back but it's surprising how often I do.

My thoughts are that, if I did/wrote something that improved someone's life, even a one-word "thanks" would feel really good.

Do the same for others, and mention your mentors whenever appropriate.
I tithe. I don't mean that in a religious sense at all, but it's the way I pay my community back for that support. It's also not just in terms of money -- I count time volunteering and mentoring as part of tithing. It's also not repaying the people who helped me directly, but I don't think that's the important part. The way you pay them back is to "pay it forward" and do for others as those people have done for you.
If it's not religious I don't know why you'd call it tithing, that's not what that word means. For example, I do communion, but not in the religious sense, I take shots and order a frozen pizza at the bar.
"Tithe" is not inherently a religious term (it just means "a levy of 1/10th"), despite it mostly being used in a religious context. I use it because there is no good alternative term.
Seems like an appropriate usage of the word to me. How seriously do you take the 1/10th part?
10% is the standard I follow. It's built into my budgeting at that level. There's nothing magical about the 10%, though, it's just what works for me and is easy to compute. But I also follow the "pay yourself first" rule -- I take 10% off the top of every dollar that I receive, and put that aside for future me. Then I set aside 10% of the remainder to pay back my community. So, it's really 9%.
Why is the bar serving frozen pizza?
People might not remember things that made such a difference to you and a Thank You will mean a lot. Also maybe if you lost touch with some, maybe now that you are older and without a work or other hierarchy to get in the way, you could be friends. I have seen this a few times.
Think about something they like and get a nice version of it for them. Like if they like pens, get them a nice one with a note engraved

Pay it forward

Help others that were in your situation
“Be the person you needed when you’re younger.” was some advice someone once gave. +1
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Send a note. The director of my old lab was essentially a proxy father for me for nearly 10 years, and inspired me to take my life and career more seriously, which I did. Work was not the only thing, but life. I took up running because I looked up to him in my 20s, I remember seeing him and thinking "wow, this guy is in his mid 40s and looks great!" Tell them. His wife told me in secret that it made him so happy he cried.
You pay it forward to younger people. I'm sure that's what many of the people who helped you were doing.
+100! I view it as "holding the door open behind me for others", much like people held the door for me.
You set up the environment to create more people like you the same way those experienced people did. I've found that mentorship like this has been one of the most rewarding things I've ever done in my career.
Since they invested their time in you, I would suggest that you give back in kind. Call them, send them a note, email/text, etc. It is easier than ever to keep in touch with people now-a-days. Meet them in person if they are open to that and you are able to.

If some of these mentors are retired, I'm sure they would love to hear from a former protege/student/mentee. Watching my dad after his retirement, he always enjoys these interactions with his former colleagues -- talk about their profession or department. Made his day/week in most cases. Retirement can be professionally lonely sometimes.

I've worked directly with several HNW individuals, and the biggest "snub" (real or not) I ever witnessed was a multi-millionaire who sabotaged a mentee's already-disastrous wedding... because he wasn't thanked in the wedding handout.

Dollars meant nothing to him, but control — and meant nothing to this Groom.

>If some of these mentors are retired

Retired people typically rock, so-long as they didn't spend their entire careers being bullies. For several years I lived in a retirement community (as "the help") and the endless dinners/conversations rarely "got old." I mostly enjoyed working with/for elderly retirees, except that most seem to have almost no concept of how much dollars have deflated since their pre-70s/80s/90s gold-backed hayday.

>[things you could do]

Help raise "the next generation" by living well and mentoring your own deserving minds — perhaps have an informal lunch with both your advisor and advisee?

I agree with a lot of the comments that (1) giving heartfelt thanks (which you can do more than once over the years) and (2) being there to help them if they ever need it and (3) paying it forward is the best you can do.

You could throw money at it or try to make big gestures but to the people that helped you just knowing how much it meant to you is the best reward.

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I've actually thought of having a big dinner for all of the managers I've had over the years that were helpful in getting me to where I am today.

That being said, even a handwritten note or phone call to say "I just wanted to say that at X time in my life, you did Y and it was amazing at the time and helped me get to where I am now" goes a LONG way.

A handwritten note can be pinned to a cubicle or tucked into a book or whatever. It's tangible, and there's a role for that, and this is it.
I'd do separate one on ones. A big one gives off main character vibes.
Part of the idea is to have them meet each other since they are all fascinating.

(and some of it is, I confess, main character energy)

Focus less on those who helped you, and more on helping others.

The first time I went to Defcon, I felt lonely and lost -- it was the first year they had those cool electronic badges, and at the time they were only given out as entrance tokens for an exclusive party that was the talk of the con.

I didn't really "know" anyone there -- like a lot of young hackers, I was part of one of those vBulletin board hacker crews that have been lost to time and I'd exhausted the meager savings I had built up that summer on my plane ticket and hotel room at the Riviera.

A lot of people who had expense accounts were going out to nice places for dinner -- the guy with per diem would get drinks, the guy who had to itemize, and me, the guy trying to get a group together to visit that cool looking dive bar next to Bally's kept getting laughed at and called a newbie...

Then none other than Dan Kaminsky[1] strolls up, tells me he knows who I am (!) and heard I'd been asking about the ninja party, tells me he can't get me in but he knows a room party. Shows me a room next to the pool with a keg in the bathtub, I threw them a five and we sat around talking until late in the night. They had some good tips on cheap places to eat, how to get free drinks at the penny slots, that sort of thing.

And then, every year since that I visited, I did what he did... wander the convention looking for the budget travel crew, the folks who don't do it for a salary and whom this is their reality, and I'd take them on a quest for two dollar hot dogs, show them the little store next to the dive bar where they could stock up on beer and liquor and ice and then disappear into the night like some kind of helpful spirit of the hacker night.

Anyways... long, profuse thank yous are not needed. What you should do is make sure you keep the gates open that were not gatekept for you. Be the person who connects others, in ways that you can't always list on your CV.

[1] Rest in power

"and then disappear into the night like some kind of helpful spirit of the hacker night."

This is awesome. One interaction like this can change the entire vibe of a group's weekend. Good on you.

I didn't know Dan personally, but everyone I know who knew him said Dan was good people. I wish I'd gotten to know him.

Piling-on your story: I'd love to know who the guy was I hung out with at Defcon 3. My friends' flights were earlier than mine and I ended up alone in Las Vegas, newly-turned 18 y/o and w/ very little travel experience outside of Ohio.

I ended up hanging out talking with a Unix hacker in his mid-late 20s who struck up a conversation w/ me on the con floor. We hung out the rest of Sunday until my flight left. It made what otherwise would have been a lonely and stressful day a lot of fun.

He gave me an email address to hit him up after the con. It turned out to be fake. I've never been able to find any references to his "name", the domain name on the email, etc. I don't know if he gave me the fake address because of the stigma of a "hacker con"(being worried about real identities, etc). I hope it wasn't because he just didn't want to hear from me again (albeit I do recognize I was pretty insufferable at that age).

If you remember hanging out w/ a long-haired kid on the last Saturday of Defcon 3 I'd love to touch base. (My God... that will be 30 years ago in a couple months.)

Most likely, that was just bad handwriting. It has certainly happened to me that others couldn’t decipher when I meant o or 0. But wasn’t me, I’ve never been to defcon.
This is really excellent advice.
I can't speak for those that helped the OP, but I take joy in helping strangers of all sorts.

The only payback would be in passing it on. The act is an attempt to build a culture of openness and collaboration. It is only partially about helping the person that needs it and more about creating a gift to future us.

I still regret not getting those glowing swords or plastic swords that made swoosh sounds.
I think you've done both beautifully.

Carried on the tradition, and credited the "man", and potentially spawned others to do the same. I think that would be have been biggest thank you Dan Kaminsky could have received.

I had the pleasure of meeting Dan in person a few times up here in the Bay Area. He was incredibly approachable and always generous with his time. If he sensed your curiosity, he’d give you his full, undivided attention.

Just weeks before he passed, we were trading long Twitter DMs late into the evening—deep, technical conversations spanning topics that were hard to get good information on elsewhere.

After his passing, as I began sharing these stories, I found that so many others had experienced the exact same generosity from him. He had a remarkable way of making people feel seen and supported.

My personal rule: Always try and help people whenever the opportunity arrises (especially people you don't know). It doesn't matter how small the assistance or if you will see this person again. You might be surprised at how it feels and the knock on effects that occur. Once I started looking for opportunities I found them everywhere.

Treating people shitty has no reward, takes zero effort and minimal intelligence.

when mentoring most people its true. but not always true. some asses need to be "karate-sized". this, by definition, requires effort, intelligence, and denial of all passion. of course, you can alternately find a different mentor if resources are not so limited. Otherwise its time to sweep the legs of those who doubt the power of this fully functional linux operating system.
Agreed. Over the years I've touched base with folks who helped me out at crucial times and they didn't even remember the incident. Like one time when I was not offered a job after an internship, this senior guy stepped in and made sure they gave me an offer. I thanked him 20 years later for helping me get my start. He just said, "Really? I don't recall that, but glad I could help." So paying it forward is probably the best strategy.
I think in some cases it's because the type of person who would go above & beyond to help just naturally does this as their normal course of business. It is routine behavior for them, and each act is not memorable.
Yep. And we should all strive to be that sort of person.
Exactly - be that person to others, rather than (or in addition to) trying to find your helpers 20 years later.
Yeah, I used to have a similar drive as OP where I thought some sort of grand gesture was in order towards various people in my life. And I can't think of a single time it particularly paid off.

It's not like they go "ah yes, just what I deserve!"

If anything, it puts them in a confusing or uncomfortable position.

I get it now. But if you have people to thank, call them and make it short and sweet. But don't do the big gesture.

I had some time in a non-tech gatekeeping position and was able to help a bunch of people, who occasionally thank me for it, and I generally don't remember the details at all, and it's nice and all to be thanked, but I was just doing it because it was the right thing to do. On the other hand I'd be absolutely psyched to hear they were doing it for someone else -- that would put a huge smile on my face.
People who have developed a life pattern of helping other people without any expectation of reciprocal help; often don't remember many of the specific acts of kindness they performed.

His response to your thanking him was perfect.

Dan ran up to our table at a con excited to show us all the ssh tricks he was currently into at the time. His excitement and curiosity was contagious. We’d connect at events over the years and he’d always have something interesting to show off. Jet airplane explosion videos ran through MRI software? Check. AR app for the colorblind? Check. Keep DNS safe? Check. Dan was a hacker’s hacker. He was always lifting others up, paying it forward. It’s your duty to do the same. Stay human.
That was a great read!

Thanks for sharing, and for your example.

It really all comes down to example.

Monkey see, monkey do.

I never met Dan K., but, from everything I've heard, he was real mensch.

"keep the gates open that were not gatekept for you" - really well said re: life philosophy re: living a life of integrity.
Man, I was not looking to get suddenly reminded of how much I miss him. I just finally this year got around to throwing out his luggage and clothes stashed here.

Is this what getting old feels like? Seemed it never happened now it is a regular occurrence. Just as life is getting really good, my friends have started dying off.

I want to second this.

The big lesson is recognizing how far a little help goes.

Often it's not much for the person who gave you help, but the result cascades. Nobody is completely self made. We do a lot of work to push ourselves forward but it still relies on other people.

So as you grow, take a chance on others. Don't just look at who they are but who they want to become. The world is full of gates that are extremely difficult to pass through but trivial to hold open for others. It can be making introductions, passing along a resume, or just taking the time to say hi and be friendly.

Recognize that the world is noisy and that these little things help us navigate. We solve big problems by breaking them down into many little problems, so it should be easy to understand how solving little problems makes progress towards solving big ones. Even if you don't know what that big problem is. Just try to make the world a better place. Recognize your struggles and when you can, help others to not face the same issues. You can't solve everything and you won't be perfect, but as you've recognized, a little can go a long way. So do that.

People aren't born wizards. We all start as noobs. Don't forget the journey

The ninja party was not even great.
>The ninja party was not even great.

I believe you.

By the time I was cool enough to have my pick of parties, I ended up having a massive panic attack during the crowd crush at the bar at some Rapid7 event and ending up pissing off the person who got me the ticket by leaving after 30 minutes to go buy a Manhattan at some side bar in the casino rather than wait in line 45 minutes for a beer, then spend another 45 minutes trying to wiggle away, only to start wiggling back.

I had a similar experience at PET in Ottawa around 2007. I felt so out of place listening to so many interesting talks and seeing all these people that I "knew" from mailing lists and IRC channels. Len Sassaman was really kind to me and included in me in hallway conversations. It was so wild I couldn't get over that rabbi was taking the time to explain things to me and listen to my questions. He definitely was not extending some grand charitable gesture, it was just genuine kindness.

I know I will never have that kind of impact on someone but I hope I have / can continue to pay rabbi back by practicing that level of kindness and consideration to others.

Is "PET" the "Privacy Enhancing Technologies Symposium"?[0]

Looks like it became a "symposium" in 2008[1] if we're discussing the same thing.

The one PETS I went to, Dan wasn't at, but Caspar Bowden joined me in my quest to try to eat lunch before 9pm in a certain EU country and reassured me that my concerns about mass surveillance were rooted in facts and logic in rather disturbing detail.

My impression of academia was that there's two very different sets of people, one I came to term the "hostel people", the other the "hotel people": Hostel people would talk to whoever seemed interesting, hotel people want to know: Who are you, who's your adviser, where did you do your bachelors, where did you do your master's, what did your parents do, did you go to a fancy prep school, did you grow up in a large city or "flyover country", and so on and so forth.

Anyways, in comedy we often talk about "punching up" -- when it comes to building community I feel it's best to do the opposite and "shore up the base" -- focus on building up the next generation.

https://petsymposium.org/2007/

https://petsymposium.org/2008/

That was it. It seemed like a golden age for a lot of different p2p privacy ideas. I don't know what a modern version of the conference would look like.
Such a cool post. Also gave me a fresh perspective on DEF CON.
I agree with “fairfax” when he says to focus on helping others.

I would add something to that advice. I would tell you to go back to the people that helped you, and thank them. Tell them what they did, and why it helped you.

That may prove both cathartic and/or encouraging to those who helped you, and spur them on to continue helping others.

I say this because I was a foster child. I aged out of the system. In general, the experience was terrible, but there were a couple families who made a significant impact in my life by things they said and taught.

10 years later, when some of that began to take root in my life, and have a real impact, I went back and thanked them. It was a VERY good thing.

I would say when you have the opportunity, you should do the same.

Tell people you love them. It's very hard for some people to do but those three words are pound-for-pound the most asymmetrically positive words you can tell another.
Just pay it forward. Give back to those around you in immediate need instead. Like politics, charity should be local.
Let them know that their example made you kind, inspirational and invested in the success of those who are like you were all this time ago.
I came from a pretty terrible situation, and by the time I was 17, was living on my own, in the local housing authority apartments. In high school, a local businessman, who later became mayor, helped me out. I was on the debate team, and needed a suit, so he took me shopping, and not only bought the suit, but an entire wardrobe and other assistance. We communicated off and on as I went into college etc (he passed a few years later)

He told me that when I was successful, to do the same.

what seems to have worked for me:

- speak to them frequently and deliberately remind them of how immense their help has been to me. i try to share important updates with them as well.

- gifts

- paying it forward. easiest, kind of natural responsibility though (even if no one helped you). hence least emphasized as a way to show gratitude.

Pay it Forward. And ask Nothing in Return. If you believe you got "x" then give "10x" and more.
Just call them, invite them to a drink/dinner and tell them what you fell. You'll make their day.
Give back to others who are in your position as you were when young.

I always go through every cold contact email or message from any university student who messages me out of the blue, simply because a McKinsey Senior Managing Partner took the same chance for me. He even recommended me to the McKinsey recruiting, even though I was ridiculously off-cycle, even though my profile was kinda shit lol, just after one meeting. But because of him, I got my first exposure to whiteshoe recruiting (eventually joined a place where McK people dream of going to). So now I give back the opportunity to anyone who asks me politely for a meeting or for advice.