That article is about a specific form of dog ownership. A dog as a substitute child.
This is about a dog as an additional companion, and having a dog being a social lubricant rather than a substitute for any form of human companionship or interaction.
I've observed the trend discussed in that thread. It's not universal to dog owners, but a subset that I'm guessing is regional. I don't think it's necessarily relevant to this article beyond superficially.
I think you can draw a line between general dog ownership, and the codependent relationship from the linked article. The latter is very common in women in their 30s near where I live, but I don't think it generalizes. e.g. entire personality revolves around the dog, can't leave the dog for any appreciable amount of time, cuddles with the dog in the bed, kisses the dog on the mouth, prioritizes the dog over family, friend, and romantic relationships etc.
Strong agree, we need fewer dog owners. It seems like 1 in 10 have dogs that are well mannered, meaning they respect other people and their space. Sitting on command (really in exchange for food) is not the end goal of training a dog. It needs to be calm and polite in every environment the owner wants to bring it into.
Excellent post, I enjoyed it quite a lot. I often tell people that if they want to meet new people, get a dog. If you want to meet girls, get a puppy. When I was in college I would see other guys my age (early 20s at the time) walking a new puppy around campus and they became magnets for girls.
Plus, humans were MEANT to have dogs, and dogs were meant to have humans. We grew up together; dogs are one of our first forays into genetic engineering. We created an animal which was perfectly acclimated to human companionship
Since puppies turn into full grown dogs quite quickly, how often do you suggest I replace the puppy?
> We created an animal which was perfectly acclimated to human companionship
This is why I think having a cat is so much more satisfying. A dog loves you unconditionally, not by choice but because it was literally bred to do so. Despite this you still have to keep it on a leash. Cats by contrast stay with you because they want to, despite having every opportunity to move in with someone else.
Might want to look up the history of sidewalks a bit. TL;DR: it can be argued that the existence of sidewalks is a concession that roads are only for cars, where previously they were for everyone, including pedestrians.
>TL;DR: it can be argued that the existence of sidewalks is a concession that roads are only for cars, where previously they were for everyone, including pedestrians.
Unless you're defining "roads" to mean "not sidewalks", then almost by definition the statement "roads are only for cars" is false, because sidewalks are part of roads, reserved for pedestrians, and therefore roads aren't only for cars. The fact that there are reserved lanes for a particular type of traffic doesn't imply there was some sort of "concession that roads are only for" some other type of traffic, any more than bus lanes, HOV lanes, or bike lanes imply that pedestrians are getting pushed out.
I hate that I live in a world where people get a dog because socialization is so broken and a nameless interaction at a park is among the barrel-scraping interactions people are doing to cope with it. Like if it's gotten that bad we should be having a revolution, not getting dogs.
Exactly what cause for the decrease in social interaction would we be revolting against? I'd say things like cell phones would be on the top of the list, but protesting Apple and Android won't cause an appreciable shift to decreased phone usage. People like their smartphones a lot.
Remote work also plays a big part in isolating us, but people seem to want to work remotely more than they want to go into an office. So again, you're fighting the tide.
Socialization is as broken as you want it to be. There is no shortage of activities like pickleball, which is highly social by nature, or more niche activities if sports aren't your thing. If anything, I'd say the massive number of available activities make it so easy to find our niche that we end up never interacting with other huge swaths of society simply because we have that choice.
Revolutions need targets. What's the target for how socialization has gone the past few decades? What material, unpopular opinion entity can be abolished to fix things?
If you have a destructive dog (no way to know in advance) you either have to crate it or risk destroying a lot of your stuff. Crating a dog is pretty sad and the dog won't like it. So you're basically trapped at home.
From the perspective of someone who just moved from a developed to a developing city, please don't get a dog out of giving up. Have/adopt a child instead. Dogs/cats are indirectly being used to hack out the desire to parent offspring in developed nations which is really sad.
If you value socializing then create the opportunity for it, join a group activity or start one in your city and use social media to announce meets and eventually people will come. Shared experience is the most powerful social glue between people.
If you want to date go out Thu/Fri/Sat nights and sample Bars/Clubs in your city until you find 2-3 ones you like. Then start hanging out there every week until you feel comfortable. The goal is not to talk to attractive people, but to meet peers who are in the same position as you and then start/join a guys/girls group to do things together every week.
If you really like dogs and want to have a pet, then go for it. Just don't use it as a form of giving up on fundamental human needs, you're more resourceful than that.
> Just don't use it as a form of giving up on fundamental human needs, you're more resourceful than that.
This glib advice is what lands you in an uncomfortable HR meeting or is the reason you won't get invited back for game nights. This will be deeply hurtful to families struggling with fertility or adoption and to individuals who experienced the foster system.
Neither apathy nor ignorance affect adoption or pregnancy. Families will be excluded by the staggering costs, marital status, employment history, disability, and gender and sexual identity.
Ive written a few versions of this reply. Some included my personal background having been moved by protective services, or some emotional stories about my siblings in the foster system, some with swears, and one was simply "check yourself." The issue is deeply personal. More advocacy is always appreciated, but I implore you to tune in.
A lot of people got dogs during the pandemic because they were at home 24/7
Now many of those dogs got sent to shelters because they weren’t properly socialized being isolated in the pandemic and the owners needed to go back to work
This is probably the least controversial thing Mike has ever written, so naturally the HN consensus appears to be universal scorn. (And for the record, I don’t even like dogs, but I’m also aware that’s a me problem.)
> A few years ago I was reading a story about FOX News (know your enemy) and the author (who’s name I apologize for not remembering) mentioned that FOX News’ main goal was to make people afraid to leave their house
This isn’t knowing your enemy. It’s admitting you knowingly read articles that reinforce your bias. Reading or watching FOX News would be to know thy enemy
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[ 6.6 ms ] story [ 62.7 ms ] threadRecent related thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44223212
The rest of the article is about sidewalks.
This is about a dog as an additional companion, and having a dog being a social lubricant rather than a substitute for any form of human companionship or interaction.
I think you can draw a line between general dog ownership, and the codependent relationship from the linked article. The latter is very common in women in their 30s near where I live, but I don't think it generalizes. e.g. entire personality revolves around the dog, can't leave the dog for any appreciable amount of time, cuddles with the dog in the bed, kisses the dog on the mouth, prioritizes the dog over family, friend, and romantic relationships etc.
Plus, humans were MEANT to have dogs, and dogs were meant to have humans. We grew up together; dogs are one of our first forays into genetic engineering. We created an animal which was perfectly acclimated to human companionship
Since puppies turn into full grown dogs quite quickly, how often do you suggest I replace the puppy?
> We created an animal which was perfectly acclimated to human companionship
This is why I think having a cat is so much more satisfying. A dog loves you unconditionally, not by choice but because it was literally bred to do so. Despite this you still have to keep it on a leash. Cats by contrast stay with you because they want to, despite having every opportunity to move in with someone else.
We made dogs for us because we needed them for protection.
And you advocate getting a dog now due some stupid reason and then keeping it potentially in a flat?
Don't get a dog. Don't get animals which don't get the env they need.
Don't get breeds which became breed into sickness.
I love dogs and cats but I am not someone who cares enough to properly take care of a dog or cat. So I do the responsible thing and don't have pets.
Getting a dog specifically to meet women seems insane to me. There are all kinds of conversation starters that don't involve getting a living animal.
Unless you're defining "roads" to mean "not sidewalks", then almost by definition the statement "roads are only for cars" is false, because sidewalks are part of roads, reserved for pedestrians, and therefore roads aren't only for cars. The fact that there are reserved lanes for a particular type of traffic doesn't imply there was some sort of "concession that roads are only for" some other type of traffic, any more than bus lanes, HOV lanes, or bike lanes imply that pedestrians are getting pushed out.
Remote work also plays a big part in isolating us, but people seem to want to work remotely more than they want to go into an office. So again, you're fighting the tide.
Socialization is as broken as you want it to be. There is no shortage of activities like pickleball, which is highly social by nature, or more niche activities if sports aren't your thing. If anything, I'd say the massive number of available activities make it so easy to find our niche that we end up never interacting with other huge swaths of society simply because we have that choice.
Thanks for letting me know right off the bat to not read any further :)
> Goes on to ridicule his own mom for the viewership of complete strangers
Um, yeah……I just use meetup.com to find groups with shared interests. It was a great way to make new friends.
If you value socializing then create the opportunity for it, join a group activity or start one in your city and use social media to announce meets and eventually people will come. Shared experience is the most powerful social glue between people.
If you want to date go out Thu/Fri/Sat nights and sample Bars/Clubs in your city until you find 2-3 ones you like. Then start hanging out there every week until you feel comfortable. The goal is not to talk to attractive people, but to meet peers who are in the same position as you and then start/join a guys/girls group to do things together every week.
If you really like dogs and want to have a pet, then go for it. Just don't use it as a form of giving up on fundamental human needs, you're more resourceful than that.
> Just don't use it as a form of giving up on fundamental human needs, you're more resourceful than that.
This glib advice is what lands you in an uncomfortable HR meeting or is the reason you won't get invited back for game nights. This will be deeply hurtful to families struggling with fertility or adoption and to individuals who experienced the foster system.
Neither apathy nor ignorance affect adoption or pregnancy. Families will be excluded by the staggering costs, marital status, employment history, disability, and gender and sexual identity.
Ive written a few versions of this reply. Some included my personal background having been moved by protective services, or some emotional stories about my siblings in the foster system, some with swears, and one was simply "check yourself." The issue is deeply personal. More advocacy is always appreciated, but I implore you to tune in.
A lot of people got dogs during the pandemic because they were at home 24/7
Now many of those dogs got sent to shelters because they weren’t properly socialized being isolated in the pandemic and the owners needed to go back to work
This isn’t knowing your enemy. It’s admitting you knowingly read articles that reinforce your bias. Reading or watching FOX News would be to know thy enemy