Yes, in practice this increases price transparency. Imagine everything could be monetized. They could charge for access to the bathroom, or water. What is the minimum expectation of what is included in the price of a ticket?
Yes, airfare will be slightly more spread across everyone who flies, vs everyone paying for this except those only traveling with a personal belonging.
At some point, you have to say no to further enshittification and price discrimination optimization.
> Europe's airline market is built on choice. Forcing a mandatory trolley bag strips passengers of that choice and obliges passengers to pay for services they may not want or need
In any case I'm for it, I'm sick of finding how much am I really paying after 10 minutes of form filling. Price comparators are absolutely useless since they don't include such basic fees like a small trolley.
I assume the motivation is to rein in something seen as semi-deceitful advertising. If you're advertising a lower price because you're excluding the cost of something that much of the competition already has baked in, that you know a high percentage of your customers will end up paying for, who is that really benefiting?
A market isn't made more efficient by consumers having to do more research and homework around "what are the hidden fees that might surprise me?"
I haven't flow budget airlines in the EU but in the US the budget ones often end up more expensive for the average customer after re-adding all the fees. So it's not just "don't charge people who won't use it," it's "have leverage to charge more for it by making people only realize they have to pay for it later."
(Though to be completely honest, carry-on baggage has gone fairly nuts since airlines started charging for checked bags.)
No. That's not how pricing works. The price of a ticket might go up slightly, but it won't go up by the same amount as the fees cost.
This is due to supply and demand. Basically the price of something depends partly on how much people are willing to pay for it. On average, people don't value the extra cabin baggage at the price the airline charges, so they can't charge everyone that fee. It would be inefficient and they would lose money if they tried.
They might increase prices a little... But the most efficient price increase might be surprisingly small.
Is there a cost for it though? They don't carry cargo when someone chooses not to buy carry-on baggage right and they don't charge people per kg anyway.
It's not even like one of those tricks for upselling as for most people 0 baggage doesn't make sense and it turns into a hidden fee.
So I guess they will increase the prices of 20 + 40 tickets to 50 to compensate for all the lost cabin baggage sales and some people will be really upset that they can't have the 20 tickets anymore. Meanwhile people will be able to compare the full cost of their flight with the cost of a train or bus alternatives.
IMHO they should make it compulsory to display the minimum cost of transfer to the airport. Often those 9EUR Ryanair tickets actually cost 100EUR+ because they fly to airports that don't have reasonable transfer options and you pay multiples of your flight for transport to and from the airport.
When you put in all the costs you realize that 9EUR plane tickets is more expensive than 100EUR+ train ticket.
I don't like this as I usually just take hold luggage only, and a small bag.
Why is this somewhere the government had to intervene? The only role of government here should be in ensuring sufficient competition and information for the purchaser.
> I don't like this...I just take...and a small bag.
That's the thing they're charging for :)
> Why is this somewhere the government had to intervene?
I am skeptical of intervention generally, but #1) it got out of hand entirely, particularly RyanAir, #2) they're intervening because that's the law. They're finally getting around to enforcing it. This is where the They the People drew a line w/r/t opportunity to charge fees.
Most importantly, you didn't expect to get charged the fee for your small bag. That gives us a revealed preference, the most honest of all.
Because of the general enshitification : of course companies will have that on font 3 then at the last minute when you have invested 30 minutes of your clicking through "no I don't want an insurance", "no I am sure I don't want an insurance", "no I don't want to upgrade", "no I don't want a new credit card" then btw it is $20 for your onboard luggage and $10 administrative free to add it...
Some airlines (looking at you, Ryanair) really exploit the system. Cabin luggage can cost triple the price of the actual ticket, and that extra fee only pops up later on during the booking process.
What’s worse, you’re forced to buy a bundle with ‘Priority Boarding’ just to get cabin luggage - no option to buy it alone.
The ‘priority boarding’ option is a scam in itself: you pay extra just to stand around in a crowded corridor for about 30-40 minutes while the last passengers get off and the plane, then the cleaning crew takes the trash out of the plane. Ryanair planes don't seem to get cleaned anymore between two flights, no time for that.
Capitalism has an ugly downside: when growth stops, shareholders continue to demand the same or more growth even though there isn’t any to be had. Customers get screwed until there’s an intervention.
Id say 90% of my flights I don't take carry on luggage. This is about things that have to go in overhead bin. Backpacks that fit under your seat have always been free.
You can easily carry 2 weeks of clothes in a backpack. I guess goodbye to 20 euro flight deals it is because they're just gonna raise all the prices by 50 bucks to compensate I guess
> You can easily carry 2 weeks of clothes in a backpack.
As somebody who was recently 2 weeks abroad, no you can't. My backpack would have laptop, chargers and 2 weeks of underwear and would be full. Unless you are talking about some huge hiking style backpack, but that won't get into cabin because personal will force you to check it in.
I would rather see them ban the dark patterns that nudge you to buy a "premium" ticket when you just want to add a luggage item and couldn't care less about priority boarding and whatnot. I am a fairly experienced traveller but I still get scammed by this from time to time. Now I'll instead have to pay for cabin luggage even when I want to travel with backpack only.
I'm all against dark patterns, but how can you ban them?
Even after EU explicitly trying to curb dark patterns for website cookies, I can't recall having ever seen the "only functional cookies" option displayed in the same UI language as the "all cookies" option. The latter will always the one that is prominently highlighted.
What is "cabin bag measuring up to 100cm" in the article supposed to mean?
Are these the combined dimensions? I.e. W + D + H?
Edit: to answer my own question, that seems to indeed to be the meaning according to [1]. And it can weigh a max. of 7kg.
Most airlines in the EU currently allow 10kg for cabin baggage and people got used to that. So that's where they will probably have a (new) way to keep charging fees.
This is it. People take more than 7kg because it's replaced their checked in bag
EU will claim a massive victory (with very little mention for the 7kg limit in their PR headlines), which is largely all the want. But airlines will carry on selling 8kg plus bags probably for even more than before
If this wasn't done in negotiation with airlines I would be very surprised
You can't just ban all unpopular or unpleasant things without incurring some side-effects. This particular regulation will simply raise the price floor for the cheapest flights.
What about students flying somewhere for the weekend on Ryanair armed with only a credit card and (maybe) an extra pair of underpants? Do they now have to subsidize my carry-on bag?
also, look a bit further. they want to make rail competitive. here they're doing it in classic EU manner of raising the cost of competition instead of making rail more efficient (it is a nightmare to buy tickets for cross-border travel.)
I would pay for a reserved spot to store my bag. Now that most US airlines are charging ordinary customers for checked luggage, there is insufficient overhead bin space on almost every flight. This has resulted in a secondary effect of a great rush to be the first one onboard, to be able to claim the limited overhead space without having to check your bag. This means I end up spending more time crammed into a tiny seat. If they let me reserve the spot above my seat, I'd be willing to spend the $25. However, if they force you to pay for it, how do they guarantee the space will be open?
Charging extra for bags and other incidentals wouldn't have been a problem if airlines didn't push it to the extreme and start running borderline scams. A family I know was recently forced to pay €55 per ticket at the check in counter for the privilege of having an agent print their boarding pass. Of course there will be backlash.
It's been great for frequent travellers. Our cheap flights were subsidised by people who don't bother to follow basic instructions, or try to take the piss and take way too much on board hoping they wouldn't be caught.
If the charges didn't exist the cost would just be spread out across all travellers.
I think the sheer level of opportunistic price gauging demonstrates that no, this isn't just the cost of things. They're trying to squeeze every penny. That means you, too, unfortunately.
Michael O'Leary actually explained this. They simply do not want people coming to the airport and having to print their boarding pass and want to incentivize people doing online checkin as much as possible. €55 is a rounding error to even Ryanair.
If you didn't do this; and it was say a more reasonable €5 - or even free, you'd get a lot of people coming to the airport without a boarding pass. This is actually super expensive to offer, because it's not the cost of staff itself, it's the fact you need to rent a desk off the airport, and it turns out airport desk space is _not_ cheap. Flights are often very peaky too, so you might need 5-10 check in desks to cover the morning rush, which are then empty for the next few hours. Or don't and you get hammered in the press for huge queues and people missing flights because it took an hour to print a boarding pass.
This EU legislation is also poorly thought through. As many have said I've often done same day or one night trips for work where I do not need anything past a backpack. Now a lot of people will take cabin baggage that could have otherwise took a rucksack, but the problem is a high density LCC airplane configuration does not have enough overhead luggage space for that. So now you need to check it in, which is expensive for the airline and time consuming for the passenger.
It would be far simpler for them to require flight fares/price comparison sites to include one piece of overhead cabin baggage in the cost, with a discount available (but no ability to advertise that price until late in checkout). This would allow comparisons to work properly across airlines, which is what I assume was the end goal here.
Either way it's not a big deal and I don't think should have been a priority for the EU.
The last time I flew with Ryanair, I was told that I couldn't board using the PDF ticket and that I had to download their app. I was already late, so I had no choice but to comply. Ryanair is a truly disgusting company by any measure.
It’s a small bag. 7kg is hardly anything. Like a purse or a laptop. Definitely would fit under the seat in front of you. Since that space is reserved for the ticketed passenger, billing for that really feels like double dipping anyhow.
A lot of people use only that 7kg carry-on allowance to travel. 7kg can easily hold clothes, toiletries, laptop. Most of the time you can carry a personal item (purse/laptop) in addition to your main bag.
Thing is, the majority of people pay for a carry on allowance or checked-in luggage, so this rule isn't going to make airlines cheaper. The ticket prices will just go up to match.
Ryanair include a "small" carry-on bag (40x25x20cm) that goes under the seat in front of you - they charge for the extra larger carry-on bag that goes in the overhead locker. (We just travelled with Ryanair and their website does try to trick you into paying for the extra bag - as we had bought the 20kg checked-in bags we didn't want the overhead space as well)
Good. Now do the same for the volatility of train ticket prices, please? If you want people not to destroy the planet, make sure they can afford the more ecological routes.
I was forced to purchase 73EUR priority ticket for few LP records few weeks ago. They don't fit into Wizair specified backpack, so I know it is against the rules if I carry them separately, but come on, it's few hundred grams and they're very slim, don't take any place in overhead storage. So I'm looking forward for this regulation, even if tickets get few euros more expensive, it would be a win for me as LPs are a great souvenir since you remember the journey each time you play it.
My relative travels a lot, a lot of it on Ryanair (no other options as they dominate some routes). She's always been happy with it and especially now as new carry-on baggage fees as it eliminated people trying to gamble the system and you actually finally have space to put your bag.
What they should do instead is require minimum price per km flown. Not a tax, just cut the bullshit of 1 eur plane tickets. That would stop people from flying unless they really need to
50 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 56.4 ms ] threadAt some point, you have to say no to further enshittification and price discrimination optimization.
> Europe's airline market is built on choice. Forcing a mandatory trolley bag strips passengers of that choice and obliges passengers to pay for services they may not want or need
In any case I'm for it, I'm sick of finding how much am I really paying after 10 minutes of form filling. Price comparators are absolutely useless since they don't include such basic fees like a small trolley.
A market isn't made more efficient by consumers having to do more research and homework around "what are the hidden fees that might surprise me?"
I haven't flow budget airlines in the EU but in the US the budget ones often end up more expensive for the average customer after re-adding all the fees. So it's not just "don't charge people who won't use it," it's "have leverage to charge more for it by making people only realize they have to pay for it later."
(Though to be completely honest, carry-on baggage has gone fairly nuts since airlines started charging for checked bags.)
This is due to supply and demand. Basically the price of something depends partly on how much people are willing to pay for it. On average, people don't value the extra cabin baggage at the price the airline charges, so they can't charge everyone that fee. It would be inefficient and they would lose money if they tried.
They might increase prices a little... But the most efficient price increase might be surprisingly small.
It's not even like one of those tricks for upselling as for most people 0 baggage doesn't make sense and it turns into a hidden fee.
So I guess they will increase the prices of 20 + 40 tickets to 50 to compensate for all the lost cabin baggage sales and some people will be really upset that they can't have the 20 tickets anymore. Meanwhile people will be able to compare the full cost of their flight with the cost of a train or bus alternatives.
IMHO they should make it compulsory to display the minimum cost of transfer to the airport. Often those 9EUR Ryanair tickets actually cost 100EUR+ because they fly to airports that don't have reasonable transfer options and you pay multiples of your flight for transport to and from the airport.
When you put in all the costs you realize that 9EUR plane tickets is more expensive than 100EUR+ train ticket.
Why is this somewhere the government had to intervene? The only role of government here should be in ensuring sufficient competition and information for the purchaser.
I'm the one carrying the bag, not them. If they aren't doing work they should not be allowed to charge extra.
If it is carry on, it's with you at all times and unlikely to get lost or damaged.
Because some airlines have crazy fee structures that makes comparing prices impossible.
Streamlining services fosters fair competition.
That's the thing they're charging for :)
> Why is this somewhere the government had to intervene?
I am skeptical of intervention generally, but #1) it got out of hand entirely, particularly RyanAir, #2) they're intervening because that's the law. They're finally getting around to enforcing it. This is where the They the People drew a line w/r/t opportunity to charge fees.
Most importantly, you didn't expect to get charged the fee for your small bag. That gives us a revealed preference, the most honest of all.
What’s worse, you’re forced to buy a bundle with ‘Priority Boarding’ just to get cabin luggage - no option to buy it alone.
The ‘priority boarding’ option is a scam in itself: you pay extra just to stand around in a crowded corridor for about 30-40 minutes while the last passengers get off and the plane, then the cleaning crew takes the trash out of the plane. Ryanair planes don't seem to get cleaned anymore between two flights, no time for that.
Capitalism has an ugly downside: when growth stops, shareholders continue to demand the same or more growth even though there isn’t any to be had. Customers get screwed until there’s an intervention.
Score one for functional government!
You can easily carry 2 weeks of clothes in a backpack. I guess goodbye to 20 euro flight deals it is because they're just gonna raise all the prices by 50 bucks to compensate I guess
As somebody who was recently 2 weeks abroad, no you can't. My backpack would have laptop, chargers and 2 weeks of underwear and would be full. Unless you are talking about some huge hiking style backpack, but that won't get into cabin because personal will force you to check it in.
Even after EU explicitly trying to curb dark patterns for website cookies, I can't recall having ever seen the "only functional cookies" option displayed in the same UI language as the "all cookies" option. The latter will always the one that is prominently highlighted.
Are these the combined dimensions? I.e. W + D + H?
Edit: to answer my own question, that seems to indeed to be the meaning according to [1]. And it can weigh a max. of 7kg.
Most airlines in the EU currently allow 10kg for cabin baggage and people got used to that. So that's where they will probably have a (new) way to keep charging fees.
[1] https://ftnnews.com/travel-news/aviation/eu-plans-to-ban-car...
EU will claim a massive victory (with very little mention for the 7kg limit in their PR headlines), which is largely all the want. But airlines will carry on selling 8kg plus bags probably for even more than before
If this wasn't done in negotiation with airlines I would be very surprised
I think Ryanair was a trend setter back in the day for charging for absolutely everything.
So much that that a song was written about it (published 14 years ago): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc
Terrible news. Flying is way too cheap as it is.
What about students flying somewhere for the weekend on Ryanair armed with only a credit card and (maybe) an extra pair of underpants? Do they now have to subsidize my carry-on bag?
also, look a bit further. they want to make rail competitive. here they're doing it in classic EU manner of raising the cost of competition instead of making rail more efficient (it is a nightmare to buy tickets for cross-border travel.)
If the charges didn't exist the cost would just be spread out across all travellers.
If you didn't do this; and it was say a more reasonable €5 - or even free, you'd get a lot of people coming to the airport without a boarding pass. This is actually super expensive to offer, because it's not the cost of staff itself, it's the fact you need to rent a desk off the airport, and it turns out airport desk space is _not_ cheap. Flights are often very peaky too, so you might need 5-10 check in desks to cover the morning rush, which are then empty for the next few hours. Or don't and you get hammered in the press for huge queues and people missing flights because it took an hour to print a boarding pass.
This EU legislation is also poorly thought through. As many have said I've often done same day or one night trips for work where I do not need anything past a backpack. Now a lot of people will take cabin baggage that could have otherwise took a rucksack, but the problem is a high density LCC airplane configuration does not have enough overhead luggage space for that. So now you need to check it in, which is expensive for the airline and time consuming for the passenger.
It would be far simpler for them to require flight fares/price comparison sites to include one piece of overhead cabin baggage in the cost, with a discount available (but no ability to advertise that price until late in checkout). This would allow comparisons to work properly across airlines, which is what I assume was the end goal here.
Either way it's not a big deal and I don't think should have been a priority for the EU.
Good for the EU.
Thing is, the majority of people pay for a carry on allowance or checked-in luggage, so this rule isn't going to make airlines cheaper. The ticket prices will just go up to match.
> cabin bag measuring up to 100cm
> as well as an under-the-seat personal item with a maximum size of 40x30x15cm
Right now almost all (if not all) EU lowcosters only allow bags with a volume of around 20 litres. Anything larger costs extra.
Should an airline charge more for a heavier passenger.. because technically the plane does more lifting. Should a restaurant charge for cutlery?
It's good to rein in enshittification everywhere.