>>>>> Before we go any further, let me be clear: this isn’t about sides or ideologies. Support for education and research should be as fundamental as clean air or safe roads. It is part of the shared infrastructure that holds society together. When that foundation cracks, the consequences ripple far beyond the lab.
Let me be clear: This is precisely about sides and ideologies.
>The tech giants whose founders and engineers were trained in these institutions, whose core technologies were incubated in these research environments
There is a reason many of those founders dropped out than continue. It turns out that what you learn is useless and inefficient compared to picking up the knowledge externally. Practical experience is a much better teacher than the people at universities. Every day at class I would keep a tally of how many lies and incorrect statements and explainations would get made every day.
Also notice how those core technologies are not listed because it would weaken there point.
It's natural for universities to argue for why they are still relevant in the 21st century. They don't want to be disrupted.
>Before we go any further, let me be clear: this isn’t about sides or ideologies. Support for education and research should be as fundamental as clean air or safe roads. It is part of the shared infrastructure that holds society together. When that foundation cracks, the consequences ripple far beyond the lab.
Acknowledging that I was supported by an NSF graduate research fellowship, so I benefitted from the thing I malign, but NSF, academia, and the whole federal government pissed off a good chunk of the country with DEI initiatives, codified by affirmative action, extra grant requirements, and ideological purity statements. Some anti-science folks tapped into this anger and now we’re here, reading this Op-Ed.
I do fear this is the end of America’s post-WW2 STEM hegemony, but at the same time, it feels a little good
OP would be easier to take seriously if it made even a token attempt to paint a balanced picture.
It says "This is what system designers recognize as a pipeline stall." without acknowledging that research universities have billions of dollars in buffers.
It talks about talent pipeline without acknowledging that, for most students, colleges are mostly a gatekeeper (signaling device) and that, if the university system did not exist, the talents would still exist and mostly be developed to the same extent.
It talks about the transfer from basic research to industry, without talking about how industry has benefited universities.
It talks about the students who have gone on to do great things, without acknowledging that those students were pretty much forced by society to pay 5 or 6 figures to a top university, so that they could show an employer they are worth interviewing.
It doesn't talk about how top universities were found (by USSC) to have discriminated against applicants on the basis of race. There's credible evidence that (i) they're still doing this, and (ii) they've also done it during hiring and promotions.
IANAL, but AIUI it's illegal for the US government to fund institutions that discriminate based on race.
In the city where I live, the contrast is striking: the local state college boasts dorms and facilities that are remarkably luxurious—architecturally grand, stylish, and visibly well-funded. Meanwhile, the local NVIDIA office operates out of a building that looks decidedly unremarkable, even shabby by comparison. One is supported in part by public funds; the other is a profit-driven enterprise.
I absolutely believe in the value of academia and agree we should support it. But this administration has made it clear that reform is expected. I’m not convinced that message is being fully heard. Until we see meaningful changes—such as a leaner administrative structure and a shift away from spending on vanity infrastructure—I’ll pass.
It seems like no more than a year ago the prevailing narrative was problems with higher education and science: how predatory and insidious the student loan industry is, and how it traps people in a cycle of debt with special treatment from the government to not let them escape; the replication crisis revealing just how deeply flawed the incentives in science are, and how safeguards like peer review have failed to stop the slide.
And yet now that there's money at stake - not the money of those drowning in student loans, but those who benefit from the system - people come out of the woodwork to wax lyrical about the majesty of academia, championing its defense at all costs. Curious.
> Before we go any further, let me be clear: this isn’t about sides or ideologies. Support for education and research should be as fundamental as clean air or safe roads.
That's pretty naive. The latter is not immune to ideology, and even if it were, you can't have an ideology-free way of setting both the total amount and the split between sciences/topics within.
The vision at the top of the ivory tower shouldn't be this clouded.
This feels like a spectator sport to me - elite classes fighting amongst themselves while ordinary people are caught in the crossfire.
Sure, I do feel bad for the well meaning professors, scientists, and researchers (some of whom are personal friends) that are losing their grant funding - techies of all people should be sympathetic to a sudden disruption in funding. But if the elites are asking us to take sides, they need to make a stronger case that they're really on _our side_ - that requires more than appealing to mutual self-interest. Academia must reconcile a litany of shortcomings and broken promises.
For the promise of education, we see a large and growing contingent of debt holders outweighing the number of available employment opportunities. Tuition is at an ATH, yet more and more students are walking away with worse outcomes. A grim forecast for the younger generation.
For the promise of research, we've seen a shift from truth-seeking to grant-seeking, a punitive culture of ideological conformity, and a pipeline to brain-drain the rest of the world, favoring foreign talent over local. Hardly the unbiased bastion of free-thought we've been taught is the foundation of good science.
As for ideology, I'm not sure the intelligentsia has ever been neutral, if that's even possible, or if neutrality itself isn't another ideology. As far as I can tell, this is just the pendulum swinging back. Academia is experiencing the consequences of its failure to live up to its promises to society and hold itself accountable for the negative externalities of its own agenda.
> an assault on science and scientists anywhere is an assault on science and scientists everywhere
No, actually, it isn't, and that kind of hysterical catastrophizing hurts our case. I'll readily agree that science funding is good, necessary, and even a matter of national security, but you need rhetorical limits. Really, it's that kind of howling and shrieking that led to the whole mess and turns public opinion the other way. Talk like a scientist.
And yes I'm sure I'll get downvoted to heck on behalf of hysterical catastrophizing anyhow.
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[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 31.3 ms ] threadLet me be clear: This is precisely about sides and ideologies.
>The tech giants whose founders and engineers were trained in these institutions, whose core technologies were incubated in these research environments
There is a reason many of those founders dropped out than continue. It turns out that what you learn is useless and inefficient compared to picking up the knowledge externally. Practical experience is a much better teacher than the people at universities. Every day at class I would keep a tally of how many lies and incorrect statements and explainations would get made every day.
Also notice how those core technologies are not listed because it would weaken there point.
It's natural for universities to argue for why they are still relevant in the 21st century. They don't want to be disrupted.
Acknowledging that I was supported by an NSF graduate research fellowship, so I benefitted from the thing I malign, but NSF, academia, and the whole federal government pissed off a good chunk of the country with DEI initiatives, codified by affirmative action, extra grant requirements, and ideological purity statements. Some anti-science folks tapped into this anger and now we’re here, reading this Op-Ed.
I do fear this is the end of America’s post-WW2 STEM hegemony, but at the same time, it feels a little good
It says "This is what system designers recognize as a pipeline stall." without acknowledging that research universities have billions of dollars in buffers.
It talks about talent pipeline without acknowledging that, for most students, colleges are mostly a gatekeeper (signaling device) and that, if the university system did not exist, the talents would still exist and mostly be developed to the same extent.
It talks about the transfer from basic research to industry, without talking about how industry has benefited universities.
It talks about the students who have gone on to do great things, without acknowledging that those students were pretty much forced by society to pay 5 or 6 figures to a top university, so that they could show an employer they are worth interviewing.
It doesn't talk about how top universities were found (by USSC) to have discriminated against applicants on the basis of race. There's credible evidence that (i) they're still doing this, and (ii) they've also done it during hiring and promotions.
IANAL, but AIUI it's illegal for the US government to fund institutions that discriminate based on race.
I absolutely believe in the value of academia and agree we should support it. But this administration has made it clear that reform is expected. I’m not convinced that message is being fully heard. Until we see meaningful changes—such as a leaner administrative structure and a shift away from spending on vanity infrastructure—I’ll pass.
And yet now that there's money at stake - not the money of those drowning in student loans, but those who benefit from the system - people come out of the woodwork to wax lyrical about the majesty of academia, championing its defense at all costs. Curious.
That's pretty naive. The latter is not immune to ideology, and even if it were, you can't have an ideology-free way of setting both the total amount and the split between sciences/topics within.
The vision at the top of the ivory tower shouldn't be this clouded.
Sure, I do feel bad for the well meaning professors, scientists, and researchers (some of whom are personal friends) that are losing their grant funding - techies of all people should be sympathetic to a sudden disruption in funding. But if the elites are asking us to take sides, they need to make a stronger case that they're really on _our side_ - that requires more than appealing to mutual self-interest. Academia must reconcile a litany of shortcomings and broken promises.
For the promise of education, we see a large and growing contingent of debt holders outweighing the number of available employment opportunities. Tuition is at an ATH, yet more and more students are walking away with worse outcomes. A grim forecast for the younger generation.
For the promise of research, we've seen a shift from truth-seeking to grant-seeking, a punitive culture of ideological conformity, and a pipeline to brain-drain the rest of the world, favoring foreign talent over local. Hardly the unbiased bastion of free-thought we've been taught is the foundation of good science.
As for ideology, I'm not sure the intelligentsia has ever been neutral, if that's even possible, or if neutrality itself isn't another ideology. As far as I can tell, this is just the pendulum swinging back. Academia is experiencing the consequences of its failure to live up to its promises to society and hold itself accountable for the negative externalities of its own agenda.
No, actually, it isn't, and that kind of hysterical catastrophizing hurts our case. I'll readily agree that science funding is good, necessary, and even a matter of national security, but you need rhetorical limits. Really, it's that kind of howling and shrieking that led to the whole mess and turns public opinion the other way. Talk like a scientist.
And yes I'm sure I'll get downvoted to heck on behalf of hysterical catastrophizing anyhow.