Whatsapp might have encryption but considering the very public fallout from the acquisition (not a mutually respectful handshake) it's both a prime target for antitrust and something people should reconsider using (as in, consider not using)
Most people, by themselves, have very little say in what messaging apps the people that they need to talk to happen to use. They have people that they need to talk to, and they will use the same apps that those people use. Unless they want to be super hard liners about it, and are willing to stop messaging people who won't use their preferred apps. The people on the other side, who almost always care a lot less about the topic, tend to look poorly on this.
I think you are making the assumption people cannot use two apps. I don’t know a single person using Sognal that doesn’t also use WhatsApp. If they use signal, I will communicate with them on signal. That’s how the situation evolve. Install signal, have people contacting you on signal.
At risk of saying something utterly predictable (and thus, unnecessary) - and indeed, a sibling comment has already made such a prediction:
* It really seems like matrix is superior in every way to both of these.
It is much easier to backup, restore, and change devices (one of the chief complaints about both Signal and WhatsApp of course), has more cognizable (and yet less intrusive!) information displayed about the cryptological situation for any given chat, and is much more flexible. Also, it has clients which are just as stable (at least that's my experience with Element on both linux and android).
My only complaint about the current generation of Element clients is that there is, unless I'm missing something, no way to globally search across all saved chats. Which is really a blocker sometimes when using it for work.
But yeah, at the risk of sounding like I'm blinding emitting the cliche response of "why no my favorite app?!", I really think it's time to ask why we're always using and recommending signal rather than matrix.
> However, given that you can report messages to Meta for violating the terms of use, they clearly do have mechanisms to read messages.
That’s not a reasonable assumption IMO. The report API most likely takes the message your phone has decrypted (so that you can read it) and sends it over to Meta. This doesn’t break end-to-end encryption. Neither does me copying the message from a friend and posting it on Twitter.
Why the world isn't already using Signal is why Signal is the wrong tool to switch to.
The world will neither like the same messenger nor will it make the switch at the same time.
So you need to give people the choice to choose an app they like without needing to convince their social network to do the same (potentially x-times, because you are not their only contact).
This is why you should switch to a messaging standard such as Matrix, not a centralized messenger.
Then you will have a venn diagramm, people with WhatsApp (a lot), those with signal only (no one almost) and those with both (getting more and more, in my circles).
I reach to signal to contact a person and if they don’t have it I’ll consider WhatsApp or RCS or iMessage…
>Crucially, it's run by a nonprofit organisation...
Sure, but for all we know it is a wholly owned subsidiary of the CIA. See Crypto AG[1].
>...if we all start to do this, it will mean more people are on Signal, hopefully gradually making it more attractive to move across!
Signal is controlled by a single entity and is not federated. So it is only a matter of time before things fall apart. So it is not a good idea to promote it as some sort of messaging standard.
I mean, Signal is OK and is a fine replacement for Whatsapp, but all these rabid expressions of Signal fandom are starting to get annoying.
Tell that to my gardener I'm communicating with over WhatsApp regarding lawn. Or to general contractors ; we're discussing some remodeling there too. Or to a hair stylist, doing her business (managing appointments, collecting feedback etc) over the same WhatsApp for the last three years.
Sometimes I wonder if privacy crowd is living in some kind of an impenetrable bubble, separating them from the real life and real people. Sometimes I'm very much convinced they are .
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[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 36.5 ms ] threadAlso, can we backup our messages yet on iOS?
"WhatsApp Cofounder Brian Acton Gives The Inside Story On #DeleteFacebook And Why He Left $850 Million Behind" (https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive...)
* It really seems like matrix is superior in every way to both of these.
It is much easier to backup, restore, and change devices (one of the chief complaints about both Signal and WhatsApp of course), has more cognizable (and yet less intrusive!) information displayed about the cryptological situation for any given chat, and is much more flexible. Also, it has clients which are just as stable (at least that's my experience with Element on both linux and android).
My only complaint about the current generation of Element clients is that there is, unless I'm missing something, no way to globally search across all saved chats. Which is really a blocker sometimes when using it for work.
But yeah, at the risk of sounding like I'm blinding emitting the cliche response of "why no my favorite app?!", I really think it's time to ask why we're always using and recommending signal rather than matrix.
That’s not a reasonable assumption IMO. The report API most likely takes the message your phone has decrypted (so that you can read it) and sends it over to Meta. This doesn’t break end-to-end encryption. Neither does me copying the message from a friend and posting it on Twitter.
The world will neither like the same messenger nor will it make the switch at the same time.
So you need to give people the choice to choose an app they like without needing to convince their social network to do the same (potentially x-times, because you are not their only contact).
This is why you should switch to a messaging standard such as Matrix, not a centralized messenger.
Then you will have a venn diagramm, people with WhatsApp (a lot), those with signal only (no one almost) and those with both (getting more and more, in my circles).
I reach to signal to contact a person and if they don’t have it I’ll consider WhatsApp or RCS or iMessage…
Sure, but for all we know it is a wholly owned subsidiary of the CIA. See Crypto AG[1].
>...if we all start to do this, it will mean more people are on Signal, hopefully gradually making it more attractive to move across!
Signal is controlled by a single entity and is not federated. So it is only a matter of time before things fall apart. So it is not a good idea to promote it as some sort of messaging standard.
I mean, Signal is OK and is a fine replacement for Whatsapp, but all these rabid expressions of Signal fandom are starting to get annoying.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG
Everyone around me uses Whatsapp. 5% use Signal, 2% Yelegram and I know one gal who uses Viber. I have all of them.
Ditch <hugely popular> service is philosophically nice, but like with all of philosophy - pretty much useless in real life.